This Roy Truly interview was done by Will Lang for Dolores Kraich and sent to Holland McCombs, who was bureau chief for TIME and LIFE magazine in Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, and Dallas.
It deals with Truly’s recollections of Oswald’s job application, the day of the assassination, the second floor lunch room encounter, but also delves into the whole Doorway man matter.
- Truly, on page 2 describes Oswald as an ‘undetected paranoiac’
- Page 3, he states that Oswald could not have known about the motorcade passing by the TSBD until 72 hrs beforehand. And starts to speculate about and eventually condemns Oswald heavily “But as I suppose we all now realize, he had to shoot somebody or do something big. He probably would have shot anybody who was big enough if he had the chance or could make the chance”.
- Page 4 digs into the doorway-man Lovelady vs Oswald saga.
- Page 5, he discusses the day JFK got shot. He mentions Lovelady and being outside on the steps, and himself standing in front of those steps near the curb of Elm. What is downright rubbish is his description of a wave of people making their way back and that Baker had to push his way though the crowd. The Couch and Darnell films show that Baker had a clear run towards the TSBD building.
- On page 8 he contradicts himself regarding this wave of people. “there were not so many people out there in front of this building when the President’s car passed here”
- Page 9 shows that the author(s) forwarded a copy to Hugh Aynesworth in 1967.
Overall a well rehearsed interview, a puff piece by the looks of it, but Truly makes the same mistake again like he did with his statements, testimony and newspaper reports, he always adds info that makes one question his claims.
Episode 124 of the Lone Gunman podcast, yours truly for two hours talking about the 2nd floor lunch room fugezi.
During the talk I make a mistake: I attributed exposing Oswald as a subversive to Jack Revill was Hosty and not Bookhout.
Thank you Rob Clark and the 1,425 people who have listened to it these past 48 hours already.
Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter.
Last updated Dec 6th 2016.
This essay got too big for its own good, more than 23,000 words which resulted in the blog software unable to cope and ended up crashing numerous times.
Thanks to Bernard Wilds webmaster of DPUK we now have a PDF of the Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter available, at 81 pages a light read ;)
Update Dec 6th 2016: this article has been awarded the Mary Ferrell and JFK Lancer New Frontier Award in late November.
Credit: Stan Dane.
ROKC has managed to get to NARA and get a few boxes shown with HSCA documents of some of the TSBD employees, and we found a few bits of interest. It was surprising to see that certain folders were kept in the CIA classified section. As of now I have no knowledge whether these are to be released next year.
Bill Shelley had a record for theft. The charges relate to 1960 and 1969. The one from 1960 refers to weapons theft. The other one is unclear and perhaps the Dallas County Records can solve that piece of the puzzle.
So Billy Lovelady had a weapons charge arrest record prior the assassination, and Ochus Campbell helped him out paying off his remainder of the outstanding fine. And now Bill Shelley. Yet Charles Douglas Givens who had a narcotics charge was literally hounded by the DPD. Or did Billy and Bill get ‘the treatment’ as well and is that why they lied during their WC testimony?
Danny Garcia Arce in his HSCA statement: “Lee Oswald rode down in the elevator with us…..” which contradicts the whole elevator race story. They may have surely had some of these races, but not at that time.
Roy Truly’s and Marrion Baker’s FBI statements from Sept 23rd 1964 were rushed back to Washington, probably to be there to be included with the Warren Report which was printed already and to be handed to LBJ the next day. They wanted to make sure these statements were back in time. The timing of this is nothing short of amazing.
What are the odds that both of Truly’s secretaries have the same conversation with the TSBD’s vice president just after the shooting?
Pauline Sanders who stood on top of the steps of the Texas School Book Depository, and Mrs Robert Reid who stood with Truly and Campbell near Elm St. both discussed the trajectory of where the shots came from just after the shooting, but with a few neat little twists.
Reid makes mention of it in her handwritten statement of Nov 23rd 1963, but there is one important fact that seems to be overlooked by many:
In it she says “I remarked to Mr. Campbell who was standing near by that I thought that the shots had come from our building. But I heard someone else say no, I think it was further down the street“
In the FBI affidavit of Nov. 26th 1963 there is no mention of this conversation at all. Nor is there any mention of this in the Secret Service Report of Dec 4th.
And when it is time for her testimony in front of the Warren Commission that ‘someone else’ who replied to her on Nov. 22nd has become O.V. Campbell instead!
Pauline Sanders makes mention of the O.V. Campbell conversation on Nov. 24th in her FBI statement, and she does not repeat it anywhere else nor does she get called up to testify so that’s that.
But Sanders does have a telephone conversation with Reid and a truckload of hearsay is being relayed (with regards Oswald’s so called encounter with Reid in the 2nd floor office). And the whole thing is jotted down in support of Reid’s and Sander’s testimony.
Peggy Joyce Hawkins (maiden name Bibbler) met her husband at the TSBD along with her child, she stood roughly 50 feet away from the Texas School Book Depository when the shots rang out and she hid behind the retaining wall. After realising no more shots were being fired and returning to the TSBD she saw a policeman stand there, and heard some remarks about the railroad yard through the police radio.
The Darnell film only shows Baker’s run, it does not show him going up the steps, it has been automatically assumed he dashed up the stairs before Roy Truly could catch up with him. The story of them going up the stairs together has always been met with disbelief. You can see Truly in the Darnell film slowly turning and making his way towards the front steps, but at a slow speed compared to Baker. Then again the steps were pretty filled up with employees, some had left but others were returning and the whole east side of the steps was filled with mostly women looking out and discussing what had happened and Joe Molina stood at the very top. Buell Wesley Frazier stood dead centre.
But Peggy Joyce Hawkins. statement puts some doubt into this. This you can see at the bottom of page 1 of her FBI statement. She walked back to the TSBD and saw a motorcycle police officer in front of the building. Now unless some other motorcycle police officer went there it could be assumed that Marrion L. Baker stood longer outside than has been assumed.
The radio transmission she speaks of is Jesse Curry’s who said this while the cars were passing the triple underpass.
At 12:30 Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.
She also made her way back into the building, and this is confirmed by the so called roll call sheet. This roll call sheet itself isn’t much from an evidentiary p.o.v., as Geraldine Reid is mentioned twice, Charles Douglas Givens is missing and Lee Oswald is right at the top (which points more to his name being taken down from the word go than him being the missing person!).
What doesn’t help is the second page of her FBI statement that she doesn’t remember who she encountered while making her way back. And let’s face it, this is a black hole overall with most statements from that day.
But then there is Robert Mac Neil, a journalist, who was part of the motorcade and who went into the TSBD to make a phone call. This call being logged at 12:36 and him stating that he did not see any police inside the building while making the call, and this has a ring of truth to it, since his head office reported the time, but also looking at the radio transmissions and the prders of going to the TSBD and investigate further.
At 12:34 I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top.
At 12:36 Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building.
At 12:37 Get some men up here to cover this school depository building. It’s believed the shot came from, as you see it on Elm Street, it would be upper right hand corner, second window from the end.
I am now pretty convinced Baker and Truly stood outside, this witness testimony in conjunction with Chris Davidson’s gif which shows Baker veering further to the right than the actual steps.
Add on Jan 30th
This might be Peggy Bibbler Hawkins standing and holding her child. If this is her then she had an excellent vantage point to hear the motorcycle belonging to Marrion Baker and look towards the front entrance of the Texas School Book Depository.