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JFK Assassination

D.P.D. officers H.S.C.A. statements

D.P.D. officers H.S.C.A. statements

 

This year I have spent countless hours on gathering, scanning and organising many thousands of pages of documents from a few archives. This H.S.C.A. material of thirteen D.P.D. personnel comes from the Malcolm Blunt archives and there are a few bits that provide some little interesting bits of information with regards the assassination, the aftermath, the searches and the happenings inside City Hall.

See for yourself.

With thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

 

Woodrow Wiggins in charge of the jail on Sunday Nov 24th.

 

Fay M. Turner

 

Bobby Joe Dale

 

Luke Mooney

 

Gus Rose

 

Henry M. Moore

 

James Gilmore

 

 

Pat Gannaway

 

Paul Bentley

 

Paul McCaghren

 

 

Richard Stovall (one page missing).

 

Stavis Ellis

 

Walter Eugene Potts

 

The Raleigh Call Did Not Happen

The Raleigh Call Did Not Happen

 

From my up and coming paper Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations Vol. 2

This post has been updated Feb 28th and March 4th.

I intended to release Vol. 2 of the Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations paper almost six months ago, but more evidence kept on turning up and I decided to overhaul its entire structure (by creating a timeline instead).

While working on my paper I kept thinking of including The Raleigh Call by Grover Proctor into my first release in Sept 2017,  it had Oswald making a phone call to John Hurt late on Saturday the 23rd. But in the last minute I decided against it, as something did not feel right….that all important niggle, yet not knowing where that niggle came from or what it entailed I kept it for what it was for 18 months, just a niggle.

So what is it about the Raleigh Call by Grover Proctor? The history of the Raleigh Call is written up by Randy Benson at Indyweek. I’ll quote from it: “It was through the work of independent researcher Michael Canfield that a copy of the Raleigh Call slip first became public. He secured a copy of the slip, which became available as the result of a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by a civil rights activist, while conducting research for the 1975 book Coup d’Etat in America. The book, co-authored with Alan Weberman, was the first major work to deal with the Raleigh Call, and the slip was reprinted in the appendix.”  Anthony Summers’ book  Conspiracy made a brief mention about the call as well. But he dropped it when his updated version was released.

From thereon Grover Proctor picked up on it and did his research for years to come.

I do not believe that Oswald made a call to Raleigh, let alone spoke with John David Hurt. There is simply too much wrong with it. By just going through the batch of statements on Proctor’s page there are a quite a few inconsistencies, plus an event of this calibre has a few too many memory lapses as well.

Let me start with what I have issues with.

The Raleigh call allegedly happens late in the evening of Saturday the 23rd of Nov. between 22:15 – 22:35. The evening of the 23rd after 21:00 hrs during Oswald’s detention is not very well covered with any happenings at all. Actually from that time until the next morning when Oswald is being picked up for his last interrogation is pretty much a black hole.

There is no report as there are from the three earlier phone calls Oswald had that day other than an alleged slip signed by Louise Swinney who works at the switch board, there is nothing physically present to support this claim.

Raleigh Call Phone Slip Louise Swinney

The first phone call by Lee Oswald on Nov 23rd is recorded by the jailer Arthur E. Eaves is at about 13:40 which is almost 24 hours after his arrest!  Oswald has been returned to his cell after another interrogation by Will Fritz in the morning and sees Marina shortly after this session and is then brought back to his jail cell from where he uses the phone. This looks like Oswald’s very first attempt to call John Abt.

Arthur E. Eaves affidavit. Click pic. to enlarge.

Oswald then makes a call to Ruth Pain, at 16:00, trying to get hold of Marina. See the affidavit below of J.L. Popplewell. I go into depth about this call to Ruth Paine in my up and coming paper Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations. Out in early April.

J.L. Popplewell affidavit. Click to enlarge.

 

J.L. Popplewell affidavit. Click to enlarge.

He also makes a call at 20:00 according to the document below with Thurber T. Lord’s statement.

Thurber T. Lord affidavit. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

What is telling from these three documents is that Oswald was always in his cell when he was allowed to make his phone call(s) and that the jailers were present. There is no talk of women at a switch board and from the look of it, he was given the chance to make the calls unhindered. Also the story from the Raleigh call that two detectives are present to prevent this particular call from happening rings hollow compared to the documentation above. I will get back to you about the two detectives in a minute.

On a side note, as Oswald wanted to call New York and get hold of attorney Abt it has been put forward by other researchers that Oswald never knew who Abt was until he was incarcerated, or better yet that Abt was put into Oswald’s head there and then while under arrest. Yet this FBI report by S.A. Joe B. Abernathy on Nov 24th. states that Dallas long distance telephone operator Louise Mullen recalls one ___ Oswald placed a collect call to ___ Abt in New York about three weeks prior the assassination. Which makes it early Nov. 1963. Whether that action as mentioned at the end of this memorandum was actually followed up is not known at this point.

Joe B Abernathy report on John Abt. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Swinney was the supervisor and Alveeta Cave Treon was there. Treon’s daughter Sharon Kovac was present as well when it allegedly happened.

Louise Swinney’s statements.

On  Feb 2nd 1978 She remembers, shortly thereafter, that Oswald tried to make two calls.

One to “Lawyer Apt.” [sic.] in New York and she doesn’t remember where the other call was to. The name John Hunt [sic.] is not familiar to her. She stated that she did not put either call through for Oswald. The detectives left after they got the numbers. She states that she wrote the numbers on a blue piece of paper and she believes she may still have it at home. She will try to find it for me. She remembers Alveeta Treon well, but does not recall if they worked together on the night of 11/23/63.

Then on April 20th in an outside contact report (see below) things get better when the slip gets into play: I showed Louise Swinney, a Xerox copy of the slip containing information on a phone call placed by Lee Harvey Oswald to John Hurt, Raleigh, N.C. on November 23, 1963 and bearing her signature. She stated that it was definitely [ sic. ] not her signature. She was upset that someone had signed her name. She stated that she never handled a call from Oswald to John Hurt. She stated that she only handled a call from Oswald to Lawyer Apt [ sic. ] and another one that she cannot remember, but it was not to John Hurt. Mrs. Swinney insisted on giving me samples of her handwriting and told me that she would have no reason to lie. She stated that only someone working in the switchboard room could have made that out and Alveeta Treon [ sic. ] was the only other person working that night.

A very strong denial.

Louise Swinney. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Let’s compare Swinney’s statements with Alveeta Treon.

In an interview of Nov 7th 1978 Alveeta Treon says:

Mrs. Treon said that it has concerned her from conversations with Committee investigaor Harold Rose that we might not have completely correct information. She sais the sequence at the switchboard was that when Oswald came on, both she and Louise Swinney got on the line to take the call. She said, however, it was clear that Mrs. Swinney intended to handle it, as though she had instructions, so Mrs. Treon let her handle it, but Mrs. Treon stayed on the line. She said she was therefore able to hear everything Oswald said and she is sure he asked for the name John Hurt and gave the two numbers. She said that as she listened she wrote the information down on a regular telephone call slip. However, since Mrs. Swinney actually handled the call, Mrs. Treon signed her name to the slip she intended to keep as a souvenir. She said the notations on the slip of “DA” and “CA” stand for did not answer and cancelled, because the call was never actually put through. Mrs. Treon said she never retrieved any paper from the wastebasket on which Mrs. Swinney supposedly entered the information.

Mrs. Treon said her lasting impression of the events that night is that Mrs. Swinney had been instructed by someone to not put the call through to Oswald. She said her belief was strengthened by the fact that Mrs. Swinney did not leave work as soon as Mrs. Treon came on that night as she usually did. Instead she remained as though she had been assigned to handle the call.

The statements by these two women by itself should have been enough to question the truthfulness of this story.

Then there is the matter of two detectives who are present while Oswald is making the call and who are there to prevent the call getting through. The documents of the earlier phone calls show that Oswald was given every opportunity to talk to whomever he wanted to talk to. The phone call at 16:00 lasts no less than 30 minutes.

Oswald thanked Fritz for letting him use the phone, in his W.C. testimony Fritz states:

Mr. BALL. Was there anything said about calling him on the telephone?

Mr. FRITZ. A little bit later.

Mr. BALL. Not that time?

Mr. FRITZ. Not that minute. A little bit later, he asked something else about an attorney and I said, “Did you call an attorney?” And he said, “You know I can’t use the telephone.” And I said, “Yes, you can; anybody can use a telephone.” So, I told them to be sure to let him use a telephone and the next time I talked to him he thanked me for that, so I presume he called.

In her Nov 7th 1978  interview Mrs. Treon said she also intended to tell Rose that her daughter Sharon thought she recognized one of the men who came into the telephone room when Oswald tried to make his call. She said Sharon thought the man might have been one of the officers who was with Oswald just before he was shot in the basement; she thought it was the one who was handcuffed to him. Which can only be Jim Leavelle or L.C. Graves.

Treon’s daughter Sharon Kovac, contradicts matters in her statement from Dec. 16 1978 even more: Ms. Kovac said she cannot recall anyone else being present in the switchboard room that night besides herself and her mother. She said she knows Louise Swinney, her mother’s supervisor, but she does not recall Mrs. Swinney being present at the time. She said when Oswald called in, it is her recollection that her mother handled the call and she remembers seeing her mother open her key on the switchboard at the time of the call.

 Swinney who allegedly took the call and wrote the slip and her was supposedly looking on, but the above contradicts this.

 With regards to IDing the two detectives who were there to prohibit the call from going through.  In the Dec. 16 1978 statement by Sharon Kovac: She said that on Sunday, November 24, 1963 when Oswald was shot in the Dallas Police Department basement, Lt. Leavelle, the man to whom Oswald was hand cuffed at the time of the shooting “resembled” one of the men who had come into the switchboard room on November 23, but she does not believe it was Lt. Leavelle.

Which in all honesty doesn’t give us anything as to who they actually were. Nor is there any follow up investigation regarding this. no pictures shown, nothing.

So Alveeta Treon has one version of the story, her daughter contradicts this, and Louise Swinney her supervisor contradicts both their stories.

In an interview of April 11th 1978 John Hurt, who has been discharged since 1946 and is severely disabled,  denies the whole thing. Whether he was connected to military intelligence in the 50’s is besides the point. The Raleigh Call did not happen.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Added on Feb. 28th 2019.

 

And here are two pages of a F.B.I. report from Feb. 3rd 1964 that show the phone numbers Oswald had written down on a piece of paper and that was found on him after he was shot.

No Raleigh call, but Abt and Ruth Paine.

The one factor that is suspicious is the phone number that has been disconnected for 7 years already, and could be a code.

Phone calls list Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Phone calls list Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Added March 4th.

Once again thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

FBI memo Feb 6 1964. Click to enlarge.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for the H.S.C.A. and F.B.I. documents.

Marina Oswald: “It’s Lee”

Marina Oswald: “It’s Lee”

 

By Ed Ledoux and Bart Kamp.

Some photos and text has been added and amended. Feb. 22nd 2019.

In June and July of 2018 the core ROKC members were discussing amongst themselves whether to get in contact with Marina Oswald and ask her what she thought of the whole Prayer Man situation. We agreed to put it forward to her, nothing ventured nothing gained right?

Stan Dane printed one of the better shots of the Wiegman and Darnell films alongside a picture of the book cover and sent these enlargements to her. No photo of Doorway man (a.k.a. Billy Lovelady) was sent to her at any time. Stan did not receive a reply so  Ed Ledoux rang her and left a message on her answer machine not expecting to hear back from her. But less than 25 minutes later she rang back.  He asked her whether she had received the images and she said she had.

Prayer Man enlargements sent to Marina Oswald. Pic. Stan Dane.

Out Of The Shadows Into The Light Prayer Man book cover. Pic. Stan Dane.

What follows is Ed Ledoux’s story abut this particular phone call:

I wanted Marina Oswald to tell me about that figure seen in the Darnell and Wiegman films Stan Dane had sent to her, a figure who was standing in the dark shadowy top left corner, one whom was labelled Figure J. in drawings by Richard Bernabei.

Occupants front steps of the T.S.B.D. by Richard Bernabei. Click pic. to enlarge.

I felt the need to explain everything first, as she immediately asked what this was all about and began to tell all the details as best as I could relate quickly to her about Weigman and Darnell, the steps, our research and that of others.

Sketch of Prayer Man and Bill Shelley on the front steps of the T.S.B.D. by Richard Bernabei. Click pic. to enlarge.

Sketch of Prayer Man, Billy Lovelady, Otis Williams and Bill Shelley on the front steps of the T.S.B.D. by Richard Bernabei. Click pic. to enlarge.

When I was about to mention Richard Bernabei’s annotated sketches of Weigman from the late 60’s, which were not sent to her,  with the unknown figure marked J. she stopped me.

Marina interjected and said “That’s Lee” I was taken aback as she knew exactly what and who I had asked about. She volunteered her answer. I exclaimed “What?” to make sure I had heard her correctly. And she replied to me “It’s Lee.” and did so as quite a matter of fact.

There I was thinking, here is the one person besides Marguerite Oswald whom would know the likeness of Lee better than any armchair detective or internet warrior could. Here she was confirming the identity of her husband and in effect the work done by Sean Murphy until the 50th anniversary of the murder, and now carried on by the ROKC crew as a litmus test in the Kennedy assassination.

When I asked Marina about the images of Prayer Man to Lee she said, “Yes, seen it many times” like it was old news.
Well I was dazzled by her quick wit and retorts. She is no slouch when it comes to her late husband and the case.
She said “They have dropped the assumed part, and just say he is guilty” so I explained the FBI and Justice Dept. have both closed the case and retroactively declared Lee guilty.
I asked if she knew of a way to help and she understood the problem.
She wanted to know my age, she sharing hers first like a lady. I shared mine and she said “Good, you’re young enough to get something done.”
I told her about the book, “Prayer Man, Out Of The Shadows And Into The Light” by Stan Dane.
Marina asked when it was published. I said it has been out three and a half years.
When I told her what information it had about documenting Lee on the first floor and in the vestibule, she responded resolutely, “I don’t need to be convinced.”
Marina was kind and soft spoken, wanted me to help her children who suffer the most by having a father wrongfully called a murderer. No jury, no trial, no full investigation, yet the United States legal system allows this.
As Marina Oswald called me back in such a short time after I had left a message I did not record this call. But I did call her back again two weeks later, this was after I sent her Stan Dane’s book and asked her to give me her blessing to what she had said to me two weeks prior. In this conversation she stated that she had not read the Stan Dane book, as there were too many characters involved and that all they had to do is compare two faces; Lee and Billy Lovelady. The rest didn’t matter. Listen to the short recording below.

NBC Universal holds the original footage of Darnell and Wiegman from that day in 1963 when The President, John F. Kennedy, was murdered.
These original 16 mm films contain much better detail than the circulating ones. The copies that are around were transferred to 3/4 inch VHS tape nearly 60 years ago and are overall not very clear due to the generational gap and the artefacts it inherited due to the transfer.

Poor quality images allow the weak and timid to say it might be Lee or dispute it, and until better images they retort that they can’t agree it is Oswald, until its shown and proven to be Lee.
Thus the Prayer Man litmus test has enabled ROKC to sample those researchers genuinely looking to end all debate as to Lee’s innocence.
The naysayers dismiss with a wave of the hand the literal mountains of physical and documented evidence that puts Lee on the first floor during the assassination and outside during the shooting.
Naysayers accomplish this by saying the images taken from the films are to blurry.
Blurry yes, but good enough for them to identify Buell Frazier, and Billy Lovelady without second guesses.

I have spoken with Buell Frazier and I got the sense he recognises the figure but cannot allow himself to say what Marina effortlessly stated.  “It’s Lee.”

Buell has identified himself in the films.

Buell Frazier in Darnell.

He has said he thought the figure near him called Prayer Man is Bill Shelley, Buell may default to Bill but he also realises Bill left the steps with Billy Lovelady to walk down to the rail yard and knoll area. Buell cant reconcile the figure with the logistics of those present.
I want to show Buell a better image too.

Slowly these things help to settle this important matter. Just over a week ago Bart managed to show a note made by FBI agent James Hosty which clearly stated that “He went to 2nd floor to get coca cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. parade.”

This document and the Fritz interrogation notes show that Lee himself is giving his alibi to the police and knowing that Bill Shelley was there with him, only for police authorities to twist things and use it against him.

Lee said he stepped out to see what all the excitement was about as reported by Detective Ed Hicks.
Reporters were documenting this statement.

In his interview shortly before Lee was murdered by Jack Ruby, Postal Inspector Harry Holmes asked about Lee’s alibi.
Specifically that Lee was in the Vestibule or nearing the vestibule when the shooting took place. There is only one vestibule proper. It is between the two outer columns flanking the steps, up to the front door.
That is in part Oswald’s alibi, being out in the vestibule and knowing who else was on the steps.

I wanted to see the best images of those steps and who was in the vestibule and asked for and was granted a license for the Darnell film. Additionally I made an offer to transfer Darnell into 4k or 8k resolution, using the vendor of their choice to perform the scan and at my cost, but I was soon told that the powers that be had denied access to the film.

Rather than provide me the best quality image available NBC asked that I use a high quality format but media that was from a 3/4″  tape circa 1970’s era.
I declined to accept this paltry material.

I thank the folks who helped with the project, especially Bart Kamp, Greg Parker, and Stan Dane who have searched for the original films with me.

Thanks to the fine folks at ROKC I knew beyond a shadow that Lee was Prayer Man and I continued based on evidence that the films were in New York at the NBC ‘archives’ there.
The films are still awaiting a new Executive to allow access to study them.
Greg Parker has sent a public letter asking NBC Universal for the films to be accessed by researchers and students.

We are still waiting their reply.

Thanks to Marina I realised the truth has just begun.

Marina asked me about the films timing, she said its important. I explained that the limo is still seen exiting Dealey Plaza in the Dave Wiegman film, which syncs up with Wiegman and then Darnell, so its a matter of seconds.
Marina said that makes Lee innocent.

I agreed,…

I’ve spoke to Marina a few more times to update her on the Prayer Man project and various aspects of the case. I am going to tell her about the Sixth Floor Museums donation they received of a 2k copy of Darnell.
Alan Dale asked Stephen Fagin at the Lancer conference about the film and Fagin told that it can be viewed in the museum’s viewing room, but there is no zooming or slowing the playback there unfortunately.
I had mentioned to her that I would find better footage, as she was not positive NBC would ever allow access. So we are hopeful to have more to discuss in the near future.
Cheers and ROKC on.

Then went outside to watch P. parade

As I have mentioned before on the Prayer Man FB page  I have been quite busy with putting a new website together for Dealey Plaza UK. Part of that website was trying to put some archves in there as well. It started with the Harold Rydberg materials, but shortly after I was asked to do the Harry Livingstone archives, or part of that as well. Malcolm Blunt asked me to do this to which I readily agreed. The work is still ongoing and means less online appearances unless there is something worthwhile to make mention of.

This research then also led to me digitising parts of Malcolm Blunt’s old Dallas collection. Malcolm does a lot of deep agency research and the Dallas  material is from the period before that when he stayed in Dallas and in Washington in the 90’s.

So here I will show you a note made by Jim Hosty no one else has seen before or even bothered to share or simply overlooked it . It comes from the National Archives and it was Malcolm who found it. Who else as hardly anyone spends any real time at the National Archives in Washington than Malcolm!

Written on the backside of a D.P.D. affidavit sheet of paper, Hosty outlines what Oswald’s movements were and what he said.

Hand written notes by Jim Hosty. Click to enlarge.

What do you think P. stand for? Presidential? Yeah I agree. Presidential parade.

What this document does is:

1/ kills off a so called second floor lunch room encounter.

2/ places Lee Oswald outside while the Presidential motorcade went past the building.

This document is hand in hand with Will Fritz’s handwritten notes that mentions “Out with Bill Shelley in front”

Will Fritz handwritten note of Oswald’s interrogation.. Click pic. to enlarge.

Both attendees to the first interrogation of Lee Oswald wrote down where he claimed he was, not on the 6th floor, not waiting in the lunch room.

But outside with Bill Shelley while the Presidential parade went past.

Lee Oswald is the Prayer Man!

Prayer Man a.k.a. Lee Harvey Oswald. Click pic. to enlarge.

Richard Gilbride refuses to learn

The most stubborn plonker in the village is at it again. Releasing a set of essays relating to the 2nd floor lunch room encounter. Obviously the wishful thinking and assumptions just pile up like there is no tomorrow. I already tore his previous work a new one, in short it was rubbish!

Let’s have a look at a few bits.

From the “Lunchroom” essay: Their paths should have intersected, but they didn’t. It is safe to conclude that Adams & Styles passed by Truly & Baker while they were in the lunchroom.

If Richard Gilbride had paid attention to the W.C. testimony of Roy Truly then he would have noticed that Roy Truly said that he leaned in, meaning his feet were still on the landing and that he peeked through, allegedly, while the door was held open! Furthermore has Gilbride ever paid attention to the size of the actual space between the landing and the lunch room door?

Second floor lunch room and corridor entry. Click to enlarge.

This is so small, no wonder Truly said he leaned in as it would have made no sense in a physical way for three people to stand there, even with Oswald being inside the lunch room for two or three feet, according to Baker.

Anything but with extraordinary confidence Richard!

2. On page 3 Richard Gilbride gives Adams 8 seconds to clear each floor going down (based on what?), whereas 5 would be more accurate, the amount of steps are not that many for anyone, whether in heels or not, to clear in 8 seconds unless they were doing it on one foot, they were rushing down those few stairs. That by itself proves to be already problematic for his timings overall.

On page 4 the first floor encounter is being described, the one that was attributed to Shelley and Lovelady and the girls, and which was false and made up by Jim Leavelle in Feb. 1964 when he interviewed Victoria Adams.

The man she and Styles encounter is in all likelihood Eddie Piper (“A tall black man”). Eddie Piper who stated during his W.C. in two sessions, as the first one did not nail things down enough to a satisfactory result for the W.C. Piper said during his W.C. testimony that in a few minutes someone came in the building, “and I looked up and it was the boss man and a policeman or someone.” That contradicts the timing element of Baker and Truly who said they stormed in within seconds after the shooting already, and consider that the re-enactments were timed at 75 and 90 seconds. 

Piper gets called in again for a second time during his W.C. testimony, when asked whether Truly was with a white helmeted officer Piper says “I don’t think so.” 

On page 5 Gilbride makes a catastrophic mistake by assuming Baker races up those stairs in the Couch and Darnell film. Not only does the Couch film swerve to the left and away far quicker to Elm St and not even capture the front stairs. The Darnell film in its final moment before swerving to the left shows Baker at best in front of the pavement which is at least 10 feet away from the bottom step of the TSBD steps. He assumes (which he does a little too often) that Baker is on course for the steps whereas nothing could be further removed from the truth. Marrion Baker is veering to the right and was on his way between the TSBD and the DalTex building as he was not certain where the shots had come from. His W.C. testimony shows clearly he was not certain at all where the shots came from.

Gilbride omits that Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Edward Lewis and Joe Molina who stand on the landing of the steps and in front of the door, see no helmeted officer going past them. Molina sees only Truly go in, and even states in his report by B.L. Senkel that Truly stayed on the first floor!

In April 1964, while being interviewed by Roy Bode, Truly states that he and Baker talked to Howard Brennan before they went in. That by itself contradicts Truly and Baker’s tale of storming up the T.S.B.D. stairs as well.

On page 6 and 7 it turns into a shambles and Gilbride brings Dorothy Garner’s statement through the Stroud document in play in conjunction with the descent of Adams and Styles and the ascent of Baker and Truly. Since Gilbride is dead wrong with these 2 and 2 crossing each other on the second floor it can be stated with great certainty that his calculations are way off and simply not true again. 

“This heavy-duty door helped to muffle sounds from the landing and stairwell, so that people in the lunchroom could eat in relative peace and quiet. Truly, Baker and Oswald were in an intense, confrontational situation just inside the lunchroom door frame. Even if they heard some noise from those high heels, it was only high heels- irrelevant to the gestalt- and they quickly forgot about it. ” This phrase on the bottom of page 7, in its entirety is baseless speculation. 

On page 8 the assumptions continue, but I cannot be bothered to dive into every cherry in this terrible piece. And furthermore Sean Murpy has left this ‘scene’ so he cannot defend his actions, I only defend mine. Only to mention that he mentions SS inspector Kelley being present at 16:45 at Oswald’s second interrogation which he was not, he did not arrive until hours later in the evening.

Enough on this one.

Finally what is objectionable is the lack of mentioning one foot note or source in this essay. This is something he lambasted me for, missing the odd bit. Yet here we have ten pages without one referral.

Nice work……..eh no.

**************************************************************************************************************************

From Furthering The Lunchroom Evidence, his latest attempt….

On page 1 Gilbride makes the mistake that Thomas Kelley was present during the interrogations with Oswald while Baker was there. This is wrong as Kelley did not appear until Oswald’s 3rd at just before 8 PM. Kelley said in his WC  testimony he arrived in the evening from Kentucky and not in the afternoon. Nor is Kelley listed as a participant of the 2nd  interrogation. Sorrels and Lawson were there though.

Nor was Hosty present, Hosty was only there during the first interrogation.

Then some of the sorriest speculations are drummed up for poor ol’ Marrion Baker that the reader ought to stop right there and then, and ask for a bucket.

“Baker’s train of thought interrupted- which led to a couple of vague descriptions in the affidavit when describing his location within the unfamiliar Book Depository. Baker was
suddenly immersed in a situation where any accusatory statements he made could be misinterpreted adversely, later in a legal setting. And he apparently reacted with police
discipline and remained quiet about what he recognized. The less said, the better. But he was quite mindful of this omission. And as soon as his affidavit was typed up he
brought it into Marvin Johnson’s office. And confided to Johnson that this suspect was the same guy he’d encountered down at the Depository. He’d even “started to search the man.”

I am actually accusing Gilbride of lying and this part by itself shows that Richard Gilbride has not learned one iota from his exercise over a year ago which I rightly nailed to the cross then. 

The BS continues with Baker recognising Oswald and exclaiming that he was the man encountered as such. There is no proof for this besides Johnson’s report, who even mentions that Baker frisked him which he did not, and that Baker picked him out in a line-up. Which he did not.

If Baker, as according to Johnson had recognised Oswald as that man encountered o the 3rd or 4th floor then this would have been brought up during those interrogation right there and then! And Oswald would have had a much harder time there and then, but no….the 2nd floor encounter did not become public near noon on the 23rd. At least after two more interrogations!!!!

The speculations continue  until the end of page 6 and it is quite painful how someone can actually write this stuff based on his own deluded assumptions which are nothing but a terrible hoax.

That Gilbride has made a pact with one of the worst internet deniers in this scene by the name of Brian Doyle is nothing short of a surprise, and he even brings up one of the worst interviews ever done by Brian Doyle and the grand kids of Sarah Stanton. This interview is known for Brian Doyle leading the ladies during this interview. Doyle also shoots himself in the foot with the hearsay answer that Sarah Stanton asked Oswald was going to go out for lunch and watch the parade and at that time was holding a soda. That is before lunch! Therefore killing of any lunch room encounter, any encounter with Mrs Robert Reid after the Baker & Truly encounter as well. Yet here is Richard Gilbride using this crap for his own benefit.

What Gilbride does very well is to leave the embarrassing part out of Brian Doyle making a complete mess of himself by trying to put Sarah Stanton in the position of Prayer Man wearing a wig for professional reasons, yes dear reader a real mind boggle. Wearing a wig for pro reasons……just so she can be seen as Prayer Man. 

The massive speculation by Gilbride and the lying by Brian Doyle at various points just to stitch his own version of the evidence together has turned this whole thing into a massive joke with these two disinfo clowns. 

The Darnell film at the 6th floor museum

The Darnell film at the 6th floor museum

  

Click picture to enlarge.

 

During and shortly after the recent Lancer conference I was in contact with two individuals, who would try to get in touch with Stephen Fagin of the 6th Floor Museum and ask about the Jimmy Darnell film.  It was the late Gary Mack who mentioned a first generation copy in the museum’s possession from 2008. His last mention was shortly before he passed away in 2015. You can read more about this in the huge post I made a couple of years ago.

To some the answer to proving, as in cherry on top, that Prayer Man is actually Lee Harvey Oswald lies in the Darnell film, to me not a chance in hell unless there happens to be a sharp frame in the roughly 5 seconds of that particular film sequence. The film, and especially the happenings on the stairs, offer some value in those frames. Some of the detail has been washed out and is too blurry to actually identify all people on those steps. S some individuals could be recognised with a better copy, but when it comes to ID-ing Lee Oswald being there on the first step below the landing is doubtful.

Alan Dale asked Stephen Fagin after a talk during the Lancer Conference in Nov. 2018 about whether the 6th Floor Museum had a copy of the Darnell film and if so when could scholars get access to it?

This then got the reply: “Funny as you mention this we are about to give access to a digital 2K copy of the Darnell film in our reading room”. That is partial good news, its existence has been acknowledged, but 2K is not 4K which it should have been. Since this film could give a lot of info on T.S.B.D. employees I would have not spared any money to get the best optimal result from the 16 mm film.

Stu Wexler had one of his friends go there and I asked Scott Reid to pay the Museum a visit as he happened to be in Dallas at that time. Sadly neither could give me anything conclusive and on top of that Scott managed to tell me that he could only stop and start the movie, not zoom in nor go for a slow motion setting either, so overall that was not very helpful.

The big let down is the fact that the film can only be seen in the Reading Room inside the 6th floor museum, you have to physically be there. Copies cannot be made for copyright reasons. I have asked whether it would be possible to get some still copies and that might still be possible, the powers that be will need to give their consent before this happens, whenever that may be. Will keep you posted.

 

Tom Alyea

Tom Alyea is the WFAA cameraman who managed to get inside the T.S.B.D. and filmed the D.P.D. searching inside and while filming them also recorded other people of interest such as Kent Biffle. And who could forget the Truly and Baker get together on the first floor.

If you want to read his take on what happened inside the T.S.B.D. and especially with the shell casings and the boxes then go HERE (Facts and photos from Connie Kritzberg’s Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp. 39-46 and Alyea’s own addendums).

This Alyea interview provides more insight on the happenings inside the building as well, the rifle i/e and ends with Baker’s so called lunch room confrontation, and I do not agree with his assertion, be that as it may.

Malcolm Blunt was kind enough to send me some documentation from the A.R.R.B. which is quite a dispute regarding the film and its future use and residency. See for yourself. But most interesting is the letter from Alyea to Tom Samoluk of the A.R.R.B. in which he states that the W.C. testimony of Lt. Carl Day and Det. Studebaker, both of the D.P.D., is completely false. This is someone who believes in Oswald’s guilt, but was witness to certain things inside the book depository which were twisted around by the D.P.D.

I for one would love to see a HD version of the film in its most complete form, who knows maybe one day……

 

Carmine Savastano on Prayer Man

Almost 4 years ago, March 2015 to be precise, Carmine Savastano had a go at trying to bring Prayer Man down on his blog named after his book Two Princes and a King. Neither me or any other ROKCer was aware of this post. The article was updated last in Dec 2017.

Carmine departed from ROKC shortly before he wrote this, or was kicked off the forum, whoever you wish to believe. The core members had enough of his constant arguing about evidence. I was not really there when all this happened, I did not seriously partake until Jan. 2015 myself.

Now having read Savastano’s blog post  just now I can honestly say that his work or better yet his understanding of Prayer Man is not very good, as a matter of fact I rate it as high as Doyle’s comprehension of the case. The difference is that whenever Doyle is in a tight spot he uses Harvey and Lee to get himself out of it. How convenient it is to use Oswald’s ‘double’ when it becomes impossible to clear yourself out of the hole you have dug for yourself. But that is a different story. Let’s stick with the subject matter which is this blog post by him.

I will quote some from the article written by Carmine Savastano and write my comments down below in bold. Just wish to add that this is by no means a personal attack, it is a rebuttal to some of the arguments that are not only used by him, but by others as well who seem to lack to see the big picture and only use some of the evidence that is around.

1/The “Prayer Man” is similar to many other supposed “breakthroughs” coined by various people in the time since President Kennedy’s death. These include the Doorway Man, the Badge Man, the Black Dog Man, the Red Bandana Man, and the Black Hole Man, among many others.

I do not even know of the last two individuals, but to compare Prayer Man with Badge Man and Doorway Man is already a huge mistake.

Doorway Man was already cleared up the same evening, as the F.B.I. went to Billy Lovelady and he picked himself out from the table sized enlargement of the Altgens 6 Photograph. And Badge Man is not supported by anything but a colouring in, you could colour in a a pink elephant and try and make people believe that this is what is standing behind the picket fence. Looking at a very large b&w scan of the Moorman Polaroid does not show anything of a human outline at all. 

Prayer Man is supported by evidence, be it circumstantial, but it is not something that should be disregarded. All this can be found in the interrogations reports and testimonies from Will Fritz, Jim Hosty and Harry Dean Holmes. Something Savastano doesn’t even touch nor makes mention of. 

2/No witness testimony in the immediate area supports Oswald’s presence and not a single witness identifies him in the area during the shots.

Almost correct (Carolyn Arnold’s statement), but what Savastano omits from his writings is:

The primary statements by Shelley and Lovelady i/e do not contain a word about Oswald at all, as they were taken before Oswald was taken in. Once they witnessed Oswald’s arrival at City Hall, he was brought in as a cop killer, not as the shooter of J.F.K. Now who in their right mind would associate themselves with a cop killer? 

Nor did anyone mention the negro on the bottom of the steps, Carl Edward Jones or Joe Molina who stood next to Shelley and above Otis Williams. Only one person mentioned Joe Molina, and that was Victoria Adams, and that was after her ascend from the 4th floor and being directed back to the T.S.B.D. by a police man.

At the same time not one witness standing on those steps during the shooting says who that Caucasian male actually is. That is troubling no?

And why should they, in those days anyone of non Caucasian build in Tx. was expected to shut up and not volunteer information (Carl Jones, Roy Lewis and Joe Molina).

The women? Same!

Frazier? He was 19 and got the scare of his life by being shoved a statement, for being a co-conspirator, in front of him to sign by ‘old reliable’ Will Fritz.

Lovelady? Got bailed out by Ochus Campbell (the vice-president of the T.S.B.D.) for a weapons charge he was going to be re-arrested for.

Shelley? Oswald’s foreman, why should he side with a commie sympathiser? A cop killer to boot. No thank you……

Plus why should they state were Oswald was at that time, they barely knew him and he was dead by the time quite a few of the T.S.B.D. workerswere interviewed, and who would want the weight of local and national law enforcement agencies on their back for a dead commie sympathiser who had also killed a cop!!!

3/ This person could be from a number of businesses in the vicinity, a passerby, a tourist, any number of people besides Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is about the biggest mistake Savastano can make, not only by disregarding this person as anyone but Oswald and also avoiding using his common sense, but also for the fact that it is no stranger either as was documented in March of 1964, as per CE 1381. If you want evidence Carmine, the stranger scenario is killed off with that document.

4/ While a conspiracy is eminently feasible and supported by substantial evidence, that does not justify the “Prayer Man” claim.

A very strange claim to make, especially when Savastano fails to submit such evidence himself, pot kettle…..

5/ Additional feasibly contending evidence includes the verbal statement of Lee Harvey Oswald himself.Some suggest we cannot trust any of the evidence, which is ridiculous, for how else can we prove anything? If most evidence available indicates something, it is more than likely to have occurred. Consider the amount of work and people required to suppress this idea. It would be a large undertaking of little value, since the matter still proves nothing of substance. It is not a smoking gun in my view, but smoke and mirrors.

Here Savastano makes another whopper of a faux pas. Not only does he ascribe to some of Oswald’s  public statements in a video by Len Osanic, which are not timed in any way btw, but will be by me soon enough in my next paper “Anatomy Of Oswald’s Interrogations”.

But he also produces a very incomplete body of work. What Carmine should have done for starters is introduce the statements made by Fritz, Hosty, Bookhout and Holmes and also their notes and testimony as to Oswald’s whereabouts and more importantly about he destruction of Oswald’s alibi. Something I did in my first paper “Anatomy of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter” From thereon he could have concluded that the lunch room encounter was an utter fake event and from thereon investigate where Oswald actually was during that period, of shooting J.F.K.

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A further update about the Interrogations paper.

At this point it lingers around 310 pages, and it will be presented in a new format namely that of a timeline. I have been trying to pinpoint the available evidence in a time setting which to me has been of great help seeing how and when Oswald was being railroaded. I am happy I have done this these past few months but also a bit tired with it. I have almost worked two years constantly on just Oswald’s interrogations and can not wait to move on to the T.S.B.D. paper, the 3rd of 4.

I hope to release the Interrogations paper in about 2-3 weeks, at least before the anniversary.