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Warren Commission

Carmine Savastano on Prayer Man

Almost 4 years ago, March 2015 to be precise, Carmine Savastano had a go at trying to bring Prayer Man down on his blog named after his book Two Princes and a King. Neither me or any other ROKCer was aware of this post. The article was updated last in Dec 2017.

Carmine departed from ROKC shortly before he wrote this, or was kicked off the forum, whoever you wish to believe. The core members had enough of his constant arguing about evidence. I was not really there when all this happened, I did not seriously partake until Jan. 2015 myself.

Now having read Savastano’s blog post  just now I can honestly say that his work or better yet his understanding of Prayer Man is not very good, as a matter of fact I rate it as high as Doyle’s comprehension of the case. The difference is that whenever Doyle is in a tight spot he uses Harvey and Lee to get himself out of it. How convenient it is to use Oswald’s ‘double’ when it becomes impossible to clear yourself out of the hole you have dug for yourself. But that is a different story. Let’s stick with the subject matter which is this blog post by him.

I will quote some from the article written by Carmine Savastano and write my comments down below in bold. Just wish to add that this is by no means a personal attack, it is a rebuttal to some of the arguments that are not only used by him, but by others as well who seem to lack to see the big picture and only use some of the evidence that is around.

1/The “Prayer Man” is similar to many other supposed “breakthroughs” coined by various people in the time since President Kennedy’s death. These include the Doorway Man, the Badge Man, the Black Dog Man, the Red Bandana Man, and the Black Hole Man, among many others.

I do not even know of the last two individuals, but to compare Prayer Man with Badge Man and Doorway Man is already a huge mistake.

Doorway Man was already cleared up the same evening, as the F.B.I. went to Billy Lovelady and he picked himself out from the table sized enlargement of the Altgens 6 Photograph. And Badge Man is not supported by anything but a colouring in, you could colour in a a pink elephant and try and make people believe that this is what is standing behind the picket fence. Looking at a very large b&w scan of the Moorman Polaroid does not show anything of a human outline at all. 

Prayer Man is supported by evidence, be it circumstantial, but it is not something that should be disregarded. All this can be found in the interrogations reports and testimonies from Will Fritz, Jim Hosty and Harry Dean Holmes. Something Savastano doesn’t even touch nor makes mention of. 

2/No witness testimony in the immediate area supports Oswald’s presence and not a single witness identifies him in the area during the shots.

Almost correct (Carolyn Arnold’s statement), but what Savastano omits from his writings is:

The primary statements by Shelley and Lovelady i/e do not contain a word about Oswald at all, as they were taken before Oswald was taken in. Once they witnessed Oswald’s arrival at City Hall, he was brought in as a cop killer, not as the shooter of J.F.K. Now who in their right mind would associate themselves with a cop killer? 

Nor did anyone mention the negro on the bottom of the steps, Carl Edward Jones or Joe Molina who stood next to Shelley and above Otis Williams. Only one person mentioned Joe Molina, and that was Victoria Adams, and that was after her ascend from the 4th floor and being directed back to the T.S.B.D. by a police man.

At the same time not one witness standing on those steps during the shooting says who that Caucasian male actually is. That is troubling no?

And why should they, in those days anyone of non Caucasian build in Tx. was expected to shut up and not volunteer information (Carl Jones, Roy Lewis and Joe Molina).

The women? Same!

Frazier? He was 19 and got the scare of his life by being shoved a statement, for being a co-conspirator, in front of him to sign by ‘old reliable’ Will Fritz.

Lovelady? Got bailed out by Ochus Campbell (the vice-president of the T.S.B.D.) for a weapons charge he was going to be re-arrested for.

Shelley? Oswald’s foreman, why should he side with a commie sympathiser? A cop killer to boot. No thank you……

Plus why should they state were Oswald was at that time, they barely knew him and he was dead by the time quite a few of the T.S.B.D. workerswere interviewed, and who would want the weight of local and national law enforcement agencies on their back for a dead commie sympathiser who had also killed a cop!!!

3/ This person could be from a number of businesses in the vicinity, a passerby, a tourist, any number of people besides Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is about the biggest mistake Savastano can make, not only by disregarding this person as anyone but Oswald and also avoiding using his common sense, but also for the fact that it is no stranger either as was documented in March of 1964, as per CE 1381. If you want evidence Carmine, the stranger scenario is killed off with that document.

4/ While a conspiracy is eminently feasible and supported by substantial evidence, that does not justify the “Prayer Man” claim.

A very strange claim to make, especially when Savastano fails to submit such evidence himself, pot kettle…..

5/ Additional feasibly contending evidence includes the verbal statement of Lee Harvey Oswald himself.Some suggest we cannot trust any of the evidence, which is ridiculous, for how else can we prove anything? If most evidence available indicates something, it is more than likely to have occurred. Consider the amount of work and people required to suppress this idea. It would be a large undertaking of little value, since the matter still proves nothing of substance. It is not a smoking gun in my view, but smoke and mirrors.

Here Savastano makes another whopper of a faux pas. Not only does he ascribe to some of Oswald’s  public statements in a video by Len Osanic, which are not timed in any way btw, but will be by me soon enough in my next paper “Anatomy Of Oswald’s Interrogations”.

But he also produces a very incomplete body of work. What Carmine should have done for starters is introduce the statements made by Fritz, Hosty, Bookhout and Holmes and also their notes and testimony as to Oswald’s whereabouts and more importantly about he destruction of Oswald’s alibi. Something I did in my first paper “Anatomy of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter” From thereon he could have concluded that the lunch room encounter was an utter fake event and from thereon investigate where Oswald actually was during that period, of shooting J.F.K.

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A further update about the Interrogations paper.

At this point it lingers around 310 pages, and it will be presented in a new format namely that of a timeline. I have been trying to pinpoint the available evidence in a time setting which to me has been of great help seeing how and when Oswald was being railroaded. I am happy I have done this these past few months but also a bit tired with it. I have almost worked two years constantly on just Oswald’s interrogations and can not wait to move on to the T.S.B.D. paper, the 3rd of 4.

I hope to release the Interrogations paper in about 2-3 weeks, at least before the anniversary.

 

Alfred D Hodge

Alfred D. Hodge was a gun store owner and also owned a bar next door to that store and was called late in the evening by Will Fritz to come down to City Hall on the 3rd floor to his office to have a look at the Carcano rifle and the pistol supposedly both owned by Oswald.

The other thing that may be of interest to others is Hodge’s elevator journey with two detectives and Jack Ruby, but I am not going further into this. Read more about this HERE.

What got my interest was this passage from Hodge’s W.C. testimony.

Mr. HUBERT. Who was in Captain Fritz’ office when you went in first?
Mr. HODGE. Well—
Mr. HUBERT. Was Oswald there?
Mr. HODGE. I didn’t see Oswald. I have never seen him except on TV, but Captain Fritz has one office I don’t know which office is his, but the one on the left has a glass window in it, and when I went in this hallway, out in the hallway where all the TV cameras was, there was another hallway, and Captain Fritz waved at me–he seen me through this glass and there was several people in there with him, and I went on in a little office not quite as big as this and sat down.

But in his HSCA testimony (thanks to Malcolm Blunt) he describes three (!) sightings, in a very short period, of Oswald being interrogated by Fritz on his own.

Fritz on his own? Was that not the thing, that Fritz couldn’t do this as various F.B.I., Secret Service, A.T.F. and other law enforcement agents were constantly present while Oswald was being interrogated. Quite a few other D.P.D. personnel made mention of the fact that Fritz was hindered by this and could not get Oswald to confess. Personally I doubt he would have ever ‘cracked’ Oswald. But this HSCA statement smells……

MWN Episode 078 – Bart Kamp on Prayer Man, Oswald, & the TSBD

About 6 weeks ago I was approached by S.T. Patrick of Midnight Writer News to do an interview for his show after a few weeks we finally managed to do this. Listening back to it one month after I  did it I have to say I did not do too bad. I am very critical of myself when I do these things, and the good thing is that after listening to 50 mins of it I haven’t turned it off yet!

I am talking about the research done and of course, the 2nd floor lunch room encounter, T.S.B.D., Dallas P.D. and Prayer Man all pass the avenue during this interview.

A thoroughly enjoyable experience.

Thank you S.T. Patrick.

Go HERE to hear the interview and read up about it on the Midnight Writer News Website.

During the interview I mistakenly refer to me as having received the JFK Lancer Pioneer Award, which is wrong it was the New Frontier Award actually. Apologies for the mix-up.

Gifts from Uncle Malcolm Part 4

Interesting set. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for sending me these.

Shanklin to Sorrels and handing over a list of photographers around the crime scene. The list is missing of course.

Gordon Shanklin to Forrest Sorrells. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Doorway Man discussed with Bill Shelley and Roy Truly.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 31 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 431 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Oswald’s description over the police radio, most interesting doc.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

 

 

 

May 2018 Links

This will be the last JFK Links set here, from now on they will be placed on the DPUK website instead.

 

Donald Trump blocks release of some JFK assassination files.

Solving the mystery of the Hunt/Dallas CIA memo hoax.

Final Word on the JFK Assassination: There Will Never Be a Final Word. With Rex Bradford.

Lansdale’s Ghost.

SCIENTIST NEUTRALIZES JFK’S ‘BACK AND TO THE LEFT’ — OR DOES HE?

Former Miami Herald editor’s ties to CIA confirmed, but still unclear, in latest JFK docs.

Miami Herald’sDon Bohning, the Washington Post’s Edward Cody and Time Magazine’s Bernard Diederich. Pic.: AP

After Trump’s big promise, 15,834 JFK files remain secret.

A promise broken on JFK files release.

Edmund Gullion, JFK, and the Shaping of a Foreign Policy in Vietnam. By James Norwood.

The Truth in Our Lifetime – Some Positive Attributes of the Extension of the JFK Act.

Fair Play Magazine. Thanks to Joseph Backes.

16 Unpublished photos of LBJ after JFK assassination made public.

Who was running CIA covert operations in Mexico City in 1963?

Woman recounts how she ended up in iconic photo of JFK taken near Shillington.

The Black Vault JFK Files Online.

Five ways JFK was a visionary leader remarkably ahead of his time.

Pittsburgh’s Dr. Cyril Wecht Applauds Call By RFK Jr. To Re-investigate Father’s Assassination.

Gifts from uncle Malcolm Part 1

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt I have been handed a document on Wesley Liebeler, who was one of the senior lawyers of the W.C. And although this document has been described at 22november1963.org.uk , there is no active link to the document itself. Liebeler is ploughing through and raises his questions, offers feedback and proposes amendments to Chapter IV of the Warren Report dated Sept. 6th 1964. Compared to the date that the Warren Report was issued to L.B.J. on Sept 24th 1964. Not that much notice was given to Liebeler’s remarks since not a lot changed in those 18 days.

Ladies and gents have a good read, as some of his observations are golden.

What is mentioned by Wesley Liebeler are: the rifle, the finger/palm prints on the boxes, Buell Wesley Frazier, the description of Oswald after his departure from the T.S.B.D., Amos Euins, questioning the 2nd floor encounter,  Victoria Adams’ descent, the bus ride, the line-ups, the revolver, the arrest at the T.T., Johnny Calvin Brewer, Walker shooting, Marin Oswald, the rifle scope and its firing tests.

Even though the document is mentioned at the site above, you only get to read a summarisation, whereas now you have the whole thing at your own leisure.

I love the ending of the document:  “I forgot to mention that some question might be raised when the public discovers that there was only one eyewitness to the Tippit killing, i/e one person who saw him kill him. All the rest only saw subsequent events. Mrs. Markham is nicely buried there, but I predict not for long.”

 

Dealey Plaza UK Canterbury 2018 Seminar

On Fri the 27th the missus and I made our way to Canterbury to attend the 16th DPUK Canterbury seminar. I had a two hour presentation to give on the Saturday and also had scheduled two interviews, one with Malcolm Blunt and the other with John Newman on Sunday. Besides that I managed to get Jim DiEugenio to do his “JFK and his foreign policy” talk. We had some rain but other than that it was ok. Barry Keane and I shared a flat in the centre of Canterbury and we joined the rest of the posse (about a dozen at that time) in the pub for a couple of pints and from thereon we made our way to Pinocchio’s an Italian restaurant where Dealey Plaza UK has been going on the evening before the seminar ever since organising it in in Canterbury.

I myself left a bit earlier than the rest and managed to get really drunk at the flat in the time span of one hour, it took me by surprise to say the least. Waking up the next morning and not remembering how I got to bed at all was already the first indicator of a raging hangover that lasted pretty much all day. And it was not just me, Barry Keane who had the honours of doing the very first talk felt it too ;) But we managed to pull through, there was simply too much at stake. I myself felt like Richard Nixon with that sweaty patch just above my lips and had to wipe it several times while the booze was making its way out through my pores.

Professional indeed….

The whole weekend was great fun and obviously flew by rather quick. I enjoyed the entire program and could I do 4-5 days of this? Easy!

I would like to thank Stuart Galloway, DPUK’s outgoing secretary, for setting the seminar up like he has been doing for the past decade, he did a marvellous job. Thank you Stuart for everything you have done!

Thanks to all the speakers as well for sharing your time and knowledge to us.

 

 

The audio of the above interview of Malcolm can also be heard at the The Lone Gunman Podcast with an intro by yours truly.

The John Newman video will be inserted in a few days. But the Lone Gunman Podcast of the audio of this telephone interview can be listened to HERE.

Gayle Nix Jackson DPUK Talk

On March 24th Gayle Nix Jackson was kind enough to share her time with about fifteen DPUK members above in the Flying Horse pub. We let her do most of the talking, about her new and above all very good book Pieces of the Puzzle: An Anthology. I recommend it especially for those that read books with a keen interest in the case.

We started with about ten of us and by the end of the talk that had grown into fifteen. As you will be able to hear from the videos we had quite a few laughs, and with the audio difficulties considered we managed to pull of a largely unscripted chat that was of great fun to us all.

Stuart Galloway was kind enough to film the screen of our talk and I took a few quick shots with my iPhone shown below. Enjoy as much as we had two weeks ago.

Finally I will not be posting much until just before Canterbury. I have two Q&As to prepare and sort my  own two hour presentation out, and there is loads that needs to be done for it. Busy few weeks ahead. I hope to show a batch of videos of Canterbury in May.