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HSCA

Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter V5 March 2019

Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter V5 March 2019.

 

It has been a year since my last update and in that year’s time I have been  handed a few key pieces of evidence that I have added to the first paper. I have added, edited and deleted text and some documents and a video.

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

You can read and download the paper HERE.

D.P.D. officers H.S.C.A. statements

D.P.D. officers H.S.C.A. statements

 

This year I have spent countless hours on gathering, scanning and organising many thousands of pages of documents from a few archives. This H.S.C.A. material of thirteen D.P.D. personnel comes from the Malcolm Blunt archives and there are a few bits that provide some little interesting bits of information with regards the assassination, the aftermath, the searches and the happenings inside City Hall.

See for yourself.

With thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

 

Woodrow Wiggins in charge of the jail on Sunday Nov 24th.

 

Fay M. Turner

 

Bobby Joe Dale

 

Luke Mooney

 

Gus Rose

 

Henry M. Moore

 

James Gilmore

 

 

Pat Gannaway

 

Paul Bentley

 

Paul McCaghren

 

 

Richard Stovall (one page missing).

 

Stavis Ellis

 

Walter Eugene Potts

 

The Raleigh Call Did Not Happen

The Raleigh Call Did Not Happen

 

From my up and coming paper Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations Vol. 2

This post has been updated Feb 28th and March 4th.

I intended to release Vol. 2 of the Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations paper almost six months ago, but more evidence kept on turning up and I decided to overhaul its entire structure (by creating a timeline instead).

While working on my paper I kept thinking of including The Raleigh Call by Grover Proctor into my first release in Sept 2017,  it had Oswald making a phone call to John Hurt late on Saturday the 23rd. But in the last minute I decided against it, as something did not feel right….that all important niggle, yet not knowing where that niggle came from or what it entailed I kept it for what it was for 18 months, just a niggle.

So what is it about the Raleigh Call by Grover Proctor? The history of the Raleigh Call is written up by Randy Benson at Indyweek. I’ll quote from it: “It was through the work of independent researcher Michael Canfield that a copy of the Raleigh Call slip first became public. He secured a copy of the slip, which became available as the result of a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by a civil rights activist, while conducting research for the 1975 book Coup d’Etat in America. The book, co-authored with Alan Weberman, was the first major work to deal with the Raleigh Call, and the slip was reprinted in the appendix.”  Anthony Summers’ book  Conspiracy made a brief mention about the call as well. But he dropped it when his updated version was released.

From thereon Grover Proctor picked up on it and did his research for years to come.

I do not believe that Oswald made a call to Raleigh, let alone spoke with John David Hurt. There is simply too much wrong with it. By just going through the batch of statements on Proctor’s page there are a quite a few inconsistencies, plus an event of this calibre has a few too many memory lapses as well.

Let me start with what I have issues with.

The Raleigh call allegedly happens late in the evening of Saturday the 23rd of Nov. between 22:15 – 22:35. The evening of the 23rd after 21:00 hrs during Oswald’s detention is not very well covered with any happenings at all. Actually from that time until the next morning when Oswald is being picked up for his last interrogation is pretty much a black hole.

There is no report as there are from the three earlier phone calls Oswald had that day other than an alleged slip signed by Louise Swinney who works at the switch board, there is nothing physically present to support this claim.

Raleigh Call Phone Slip Louise Swinney

The first phone call by Lee Oswald on Nov 23rd is recorded by the jailer Arthur E. Eaves is at about 13:40 which is almost 24 hours after his arrest!  Oswald has been returned to his cell after another interrogation by Will Fritz in the morning and sees Marina shortly after this session and is then brought back to his jail cell from where he uses the phone. This looks like Oswald’s very first attempt to call John Abt.

Arthur E. Eaves affidavit. Click pic. to enlarge.

Oswald then makes a call to Ruth Pain, at 16:00, trying to get hold of Marina. See the affidavit below of J.L. Popplewell. I go into depth about this call to Ruth Paine in my up and coming paper Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations. Out in early April.

J.L. Popplewell affidavit. Click to enlarge.

 

J.L. Popplewell affidavit. Click to enlarge.

He also makes a call at 20:00 according to the document below with Thurber T. Lord’s statement.

Thurber T. Lord affidavit. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

What is telling from these three documents is that Oswald was always in his cell when he was allowed to make his phone call(s) and that the jailers were present. There is no talk of women at a switch board and from the look of it, he was given the chance to make the calls unhindered. Also the story from the Raleigh call that two detectives are present to prevent this particular call from happening rings hollow compared to the documentation above. I will get back to you about the two detectives in a minute.

On a side note, as Oswald wanted to call New York and get hold of attorney Abt it has been put forward by other researchers that Oswald never knew who Abt was until he was incarcerated, or better yet that Abt was put into Oswald’s head there and then while under arrest. Yet this FBI report by S.A. Joe B. Abernathy on Nov 24th. states that Dallas long distance telephone operator Louise Mullen recalls one ___ Oswald placed a collect call to ___ Abt in New York about three weeks prior the assassination. Which makes it early Nov. 1963. Whether that action as mentioned at the end of this memorandum was actually followed up is not known at this point.

Joe B Abernathy report on John Abt. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Swinney was the supervisor and Alveeta Cave Treon was there. Treon’s daughter Sharon Kovac was present as well when it allegedly happened.

Louise Swinney’s statements.

On  Feb 2nd 1978 She remembers, shortly thereafter, that Oswald tried to make two calls.

One to “Lawyer Apt.” [sic.] in New York and she doesn’t remember where the other call was to. The name John Hunt [sic.] is not familiar to her. She stated that she did not put either call through for Oswald. The detectives left after they got the numbers. She states that she wrote the numbers on a blue piece of paper and she believes she may still have it at home. She will try to find it for me. She remembers Alveeta Treon well, but does not recall if they worked together on the night of 11/23/63.

Then on April 20th in an outside contact report (see below) things get better when the slip gets into play: I showed Louise Swinney, a Xerox copy of the slip containing information on a phone call placed by Lee Harvey Oswald to John Hurt, Raleigh, N.C. on November 23, 1963 and bearing her signature. She stated that it was definitely [ sic. ] not her signature. She was upset that someone had signed her name. She stated that she never handled a call from Oswald to John Hurt. She stated that she only handled a call from Oswald to Lawyer Apt [ sic. ] and another one that she cannot remember, but it was not to John Hurt. Mrs. Swinney insisted on giving me samples of her handwriting and told me that she would have no reason to lie. She stated that only someone working in the switchboard room could have made that out and Alveeta Treon [ sic. ] was the only other person working that night.

A very strong denial.

Louise Swinney. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Let’s compare Swinney’s statements with Alveeta Treon.

In an interview of Nov 7th 1978 Alveeta Treon says:

Mrs. Treon said that it has concerned her from conversations with Committee investigaor Harold Rose that we might not have completely correct information. She sais the sequence at the switchboard was that when Oswald came on, both she and Louise Swinney got on the line to take the call. She said, however, it was clear that Mrs. Swinney intended to handle it, as though she had instructions, so Mrs. Treon let her handle it, but Mrs. Treon stayed on the line. She said she was therefore able to hear everything Oswald said and she is sure he asked for the name John Hurt and gave the two numbers. She said that as she listened she wrote the information down on a regular telephone call slip. However, since Mrs. Swinney actually handled the call, Mrs. Treon signed her name to the slip she intended to keep as a souvenir. She said the notations on the slip of “DA” and “CA” stand for did not answer and cancelled, because the call was never actually put through. Mrs. Treon said she never retrieved any paper from the wastebasket on which Mrs. Swinney supposedly entered the information.

Mrs. Treon said her lasting impression of the events that night is that Mrs. Swinney had been instructed by someone to not put the call through to Oswald. She said her belief was strengthened by the fact that Mrs. Swinney did not leave work as soon as Mrs. Treon came on that night as she usually did. Instead she remained as though she had been assigned to handle the call.

The statements by these two women by itself should have been enough to question the truthfulness of this story.

Then there is the matter of two detectives who are present while Oswald is making the call and who are there to prevent the call getting through. The documents of the earlier phone calls show that Oswald was given every opportunity to talk to whomever he wanted to talk to. The phone call at 16:00 lasts no less than 30 minutes.

Oswald thanked Fritz for letting him use the phone, in his W.C. testimony Fritz states:

Mr. BALL. Was there anything said about calling him on the telephone?

Mr. FRITZ. A little bit later.

Mr. BALL. Not that time?

Mr. FRITZ. Not that minute. A little bit later, he asked something else about an attorney and I said, “Did you call an attorney?” And he said, “You know I can’t use the telephone.” And I said, “Yes, you can; anybody can use a telephone.” So, I told them to be sure to let him use a telephone and the next time I talked to him he thanked me for that, so I presume he called.

In her Nov 7th 1978  interview Mrs. Treon said she also intended to tell Rose that her daughter Sharon thought she recognized one of the men who came into the telephone room when Oswald tried to make his call. She said Sharon thought the man might have been one of the officers who was with Oswald just before he was shot in the basement; she thought it was the one who was handcuffed to him. Which can only be Jim Leavelle or L.C. Graves.

Treon’s daughter Sharon Kovac, contradicts matters in her statement from Dec. 16 1978 even more: Ms. Kovac said she cannot recall anyone else being present in the switchboard room that night besides herself and her mother. She said she knows Louise Swinney, her mother’s supervisor, but she does not recall Mrs. Swinney being present at the time. She said when Oswald called in, it is her recollection that her mother handled the call and she remembers seeing her mother open her key on the switchboard at the time of the call.

 Swinney who allegedly took the call and wrote the slip and her was supposedly looking on, but the above contradicts this.

 With regards to IDing the two detectives who were there to prohibit the call from going through.  In the Dec. 16 1978 statement by Sharon Kovac: She said that on Sunday, November 24, 1963 when Oswald was shot in the Dallas Police Department basement, Lt. Leavelle, the man to whom Oswald was hand cuffed at the time of the shooting “resembled” one of the men who had come into the switchboard room on November 23, but she does not believe it was Lt. Leavelle.

Which in all honesty doesn’t give us anything as to who they actually were. Nor is there any follow up investigation regarding this. no pictures shown, nothing.

So Alveeta Treon has one version of the story, her daughter contradicts this, and Louise Swinney her supervisor contradicts both their stories.

In an interview of April 11th 1978 John Hurt, who has been discharged since 1946 and is severely disabled,  denies the whole thing. Whether he was connected to military intelligence in the 50’s is besides the point. The Raleigh Call did not happen.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Added on Feb. 28th 2019.

 

And here are two pages of a F.B.I. report from Feb. 3rd 1964 that show the phone numbers Oswald had written down on a piece of paper and that was found on him after he was shot.

No Raleigh call, but Abt and Ruth Paine.

The one factor that is suspicious is the phone number that has been disconnected for 7 years already, and could be a code.

Phone calls list Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Phone calls list Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Added March 4th.

Once again thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

FBI memo Feb 6 1964. Click to enlarge.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for the H.S.C.A. and F.B.I. documents.

Richard Gilbride refuses to learn

The most stubborn plonker in the village is at it again. Releasing a set of essays relating to the 2nd floor lunch room encounter. Obviously the wishful thinking and assumptions just pile up like there is no tomorrow. I already tore his previous work a new one, in short it was rubbish!

Let’s have a look at a few bits.

From the “Lunchroom” essay: Their paths should have intersected, but they didn’t. It is safe to conclude that Adams & Styles passed by Truly & Baker while they were in the lunchroom.

If Richard Gilbride had paid attention to the W.C. testimony of Roy Truly then he would have noticed that Roy Truly said that he leaned in, meaning his feet were still on the landing and that he peeked through, allegedly, while the door was held open! Furthermore has Gilbride ever paid attention to the size of the actual space between the landing and the lunch room door?

Second floor lunch room and corridor entry. Click to enlarge.

This is so small, no wonder Truly said he leaned in as it would have made no sense in a physical way for three people to stand there, even with Oswald being inside the lunch room for two or three feet, according to Baker.

Anything but with extraordinary confidence Richard!

2. On page 3 Richard Gilbride gives Adams 8 seconds to clear each floor going down (based on what?), whereas 5 would be more accurate, the amount of steps are not that many for anyone, whether in heels or not, to clear in 8 seconds unless they were doing it on one foot, they were rushing down those few stairs. That by itself proves to be already problematic for his timings overall.

On page 4 the first floor encounter is being described, the one that was attributed to Shelley and Lovelady and the girls, and which was false and made up by Jim Leavelle in Feb. 1964 when he interviewed Victoria Adams.

The man she and Styles encounter is in all likelihood Eddie Piper (“A tall black man”). Eddie Piper who stated during his W.C. in two sessions, as the first one did not nail things down enough to a satisfactory result for the W.C. Piper said during his W.C. testimony that in a few minutes someone came in the building, “and I looked up and it was the boss man and a policeman or someone.” That contradicts the timing element of Baker and Truly who said they stormed in within seconds after the shooting already, and consider that the re-enactments were timed at 75 and 90 seconds. 

Piper gets called in again for a second time during his W.C. testimony, when asked whether Truly was with a white helmeted officer Piper says “I don’t think so.” 

On page 5 Gilbride makes a catastrophic mistake by assuming Baker races up those stairs in the Couch and Darnell film. Not only does the Couch film swerve to the left and away far quicker to Elm St and not even capture the front stairs. The Darnell film in its final moment before swerving to the left shows Baker at best in front of the pavement which is at least 10 feet away from the bottom step of the TSBD steps. He assumes (which he does a little too often) that Baker is on course for the steps whereas nothing could be further removed from the truth. Marrion Baker is veering to the right and was on his way between the TSBD and the DalTex building as he was not certain where the shots had come from. His W.C. testimony shows clearly he was not certain at all where the shots came from.

Gilbride omits that Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Edward Lewis and Joe Molina who stand on the landing of the steps and in front of the door, see no helmeted officer going past them. Molina sees only Truly go in, and even states in his report by B.L. Senkel that Truly stayed on the first floor!

In April 1964, while being interviewed by Roy Bode, Truly states that he and Baker talked to Howard Brennan before they went in. That by itself contradicts Truly and Baker’s tale of storming up the T.S.B.D. stairs as well.

On page 6 and 7 it turns into a shambles and Gilbride brings Dorothy Garner’s statement through the Stroud document in play in conjunction with the descent of Adams and Styles and the ascent of Baker and Truly. Since Gilbride is dead wrong with these 2 and 2 crossing each other on the second floor it can be stated with great certainty that his calculations are way off and simply not true again. 

“This heavy-duty door helped to muffle sounds from the landing and stairwell, so that people in the lunchroom could eat in relative peace and quiet. Truly, Baker and Oswald were in an intense, confrontational situation just inside the lunchroom door frame. Even if they heard some noise from those high heels, it was only high heels- irrelevant to the gestalt- and they quickly forgot about it. ” This phrase on the bottom of page 7, in its entirety is baseless speculation. 

On page 8 the assumptions continue, but I cannot be bothered to dive into every cherry in this terrible piece. And furthermore Sean Murpy has left this ‘scene’ so he cannot defend his actions, I only defend mine. Only to mention that he mentions SS inspector Kelley being present at 16:45 at Oswald’s second interrogation which he was not, he did not arrive until hours later in the evening.

Enough on this one.

Finally what is objectionable is the lack of mentioning one foot note or source in this essay. This is something he lambasted me for, missing the odd bit. Yet here we have ten pages without one referral.

Nice work……..eh no.

**************************************************************************************************************************

From Furthering The Lunchroom Evidence, his latest attempt….

On page 1 Gilbride makes the mistake that Thomas Kelley was present during the interrogations with Oswald while Baker was there. This is wrong as Kelley did not appear until Oswald’s 3rd at just before 8 PM. Kelley said in his WC  testimony he arrived in the evening from Kentucky and not in the afternoon. Nor is Kelley listed as a participant of the 2nd  interrogation. Sorrels and Lawson were there though.

Nor was Hosty present, Hosty was only there during the first interrogation.

Then some of the sorriest speculations are drummed up for poor ol’ Marrion Baker that the reader ought to stop right there and then, and ask for a bucket.

“Baker’s train of thought interrupted- which led to a couple of vague descriptions in the affidavit when describing his location within the unfamiliar Book Depository. Baker was
suddenly immersed in a situation where any accusatory statements he made could be misinterpreted adversely, later in a legal setting. And he apparently reacted with police
discipline and remained quiet about what he recognized. The less said, the better. But he was quite mindful of this omission. And as soon as his affidavit was typed up he
brought it into Marvin Johnson’s office. And confided to Johnson that this suspect was the same guy he’d encountered down at the Depository. He’d even “started to search the man.”

I am actually accusing Gilbride of lying and this part by itself shows that Richard Gilbride has not learned one iota from his exercise over a year ago which I rightly nailed to the cross then. 

The BS continues with Baker recognising Oswald and exclaiming that he was the man encountered as such. There is no proof for this besides Johnson’s report, who even mentions that Baker frisked him which he did not, and that Baker picked him out in a line-up. Which he did not.

If Baker, as according to Johnson had recognised Oswald as that man encountered o the 3rd or 4th floor then this would have been brought up during those interrogation right there and then! And Oswald would have had a much harder time there and then, but no….the 2nd floor encounter did not become public near noon on the 23rd. At least after two more interrogations!!!!

The speculations continue  until the end of page 6 and it is quite painful how someone can actually write this stuff based on his own deluded assumptions which are nothing but a terrible hoax.

That Gilbride has made a pact with one of the worst internet deniers in this scene by the name of Brian Doyle is nothing short of a surprise, and he even brings up one of the worst interviews ever done by Brian Doyle and the grand kids of Sarah Stanton. This interview is known for Brian Doyle leading the ladies during this interview. Doyle also shoots himself in the foot with the hearsay answer that Sarah Stanton asked Oswald was going to go out for lunch and watch the parade and at that time was holding a soda. That is before lunch! Therefore killing of any lunch room encounter, any encounter with Mrs Robert Reid after the Baker & Truly encounter as well. Yet here is Richard Gilbride using this crap for his own benefit.

What Gilbride does very well is to leave the embarrassing part out of Brian Doyle making a complete mess of himself by trying to put Sarah Stanton in the position of Prayer Man wearing a wig for professional reasons, yes dear reader a real mind boggle. Wearing a wig for pro reasons……just so she can be seen as Prayer Man. 

The massive speculation by Gilbride and the lying by Brian Doyle at various points just to stitch his own version of the evidence together has turned this whole thing into a massive joke with these two disinfo clowns. 

Alfred D Hodge

Alfred D. Hodge was a gun store owner and also owned a bar next door to that store and was called late in the evening by Will Fritz to come down to City Hall on the 3rd floor to his office to have a look at the Carcano rifle and the pistol supposedly both owned by Oswald.

The other thing that may be of interest to others is Hodge’s elevator journey with two detectives and Jack Ruby, but I am not going further into this. Read more about this HERE.

What got my interest was this passage from Hodge’s W.C. testimony.

Mr. HUBERT. Who was in Captain Fritz’ office when you went in first?
Mr. HODGE. Well—
Mr. HUBERT. Was Oswald there?
Mr. HODGE. I didn’t see Oswald. I have never seen him except on TV, but Captain Fritz has one office I don’t know which office is his, but the one on the left has a glass window in it, and when I went in this hallway, out in the hallway where all the TV cameras was, there was another hallway, and Captain Fritz waved at me–he seen me through this glass and there was several people in there with him, and I went on in a little office not quite as big as this and sat down.

But in his HSCA testimony (thanks to Malcolm Blunt) he describes three (!) sightings, in a very short period, of Oswald being interrogated by Fritz on his own.

Fritz on his own? Was that not the thing, that Fritz couldn’t do this as various F.B.I., Secret Service, A.T.F. and other law enforcement agents were constantly present while Oswald was being interrogated. Quite a few other D.P.D. personnel made mention of the fact that Fritz was hindered by this and could not get Oswald to confess. Personally I doubt he would have ever ‘cracked’ Oswald. But this HSCA statement smells……

MWN Episode 078 – Bart Kamp on Prayer Man, Oswald, & the TSBD

About 6 weeks ago I was approached by S.T. Patrick of Midnight Writer News to do an interview for his show after a few weeks we finally managed to do this. Listening back to it one month after I  did it I have to say I did not do too bad. I am very critical of myself when I do these things, and the good thing is that after listening to 50 mins of it I haven’t turned it off yet!

I am talking about the research done and of course, the 2nd floor lunch room encounter, T.S.B.D., Dallas P.D. and Prayer Man all pass the avenue during this interview.

A thoroughly enjoyable experience.

Thank you S.T. Patrick.

Go HERE to hear the interview and read up about it on the Midnight Writer News Website.

During the interview I mistakenly refer to me as having received the JFK Lancer Pioneer Award, which is wrong it was the New Frontier Award actually. Apologies for the mix-up.

Gifts From Uncle Malcolm Part 5

Thanks again to Malcolm Blunt for some mega interesting documents.

Photo: Alan Dale

Some of these files are as PDFs, so click on the link to get access.

HSCA Sidney A Martin 210877

Richard Randolph Carr-Handwritten FBI Statement 030264

James Files

James Files, click pic to enlarge.

James Malley.

James Malley, click pic to enlarge.

James Malley, click pic to enlarge.

Walter E. Nelson.

Walter E Nelson, click pic to enlarge.

Walter E Nelson, click pic to enlarge.

Gifts from Uncle Malcolm Part 4

Interesting set. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for sending me these.

Shanklin to Sorrels and handing over a list of photographers around the crime scene. The list is missing of course.

Gordon Shanklin to Forrest Sorrells. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Doorway Man discussed with Bill Shelley and Roy Truly.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 31 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 431 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Oswald’s description over the police radio, most interesting doc.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.