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Lee Harvey Oswald

Carmine Savastano on Prayer Man

Almost 4 years ago, March 2015 to be precise, Carmine Savastano had a go at trying to bring Prayer Man down on his blog named after his book Two Princes and a King. Neither me or any other ROKCer was aware of this post. The article was updated last in Dec 2017.

Carmine departed from ROKC shortly before he wrote this, or was kicked off the forum, whoever you wish to believe. The core members had enough of his constant arguing about evidence. I was not really there when all this happened, I did not seriously partake until Jan. 2015 myself.

Now having read Savastano’s blog post  just now I can honestly say that his work or better yet his understanding of Prayer Man is not very good, as a matter of fact I rate it as high as Doyle’s comprehension of the case. The difference is that whenever Doyle is in a tight spot he uses Harvey and Lee to get himself out of it. How convenient it is to use Oswald’s ‘double’ when it becomes impossible to clear yourself out of the hole you have dug for yourself. But that is a different story. Let’s stick with the subject matter which is this blog post by him.

I will quote some from the article written by Carmine Savastano and write my comments down below in bold. Just wish to add that this is by no means a personal attack, it is a rebuttal to some of the arguments that are not only used by him, but by others as well who seem to lack to see the big picture and only use some of the evidence that is around.

1/The “Prayer Man” is similar to many other supposed “breakthroughs” coined by various people in the time since President Kennedy’s death. These include the Doorway Man, the Badge Man, the Black Dog Man, the Red Bandana Man, and the Black Hole Man, among many others.

I do not even know of the last two individuals, but to compare Prayer Man with Badge Man and Doorway Man is already a huge mistake.

Doorway Man was already cleared up the same evening, as the F.B.I. went to Billy Lovelady and he picked himself out from the table sized enlargement of the Altgens 6 Photograph. And Badge Man is not supported by anything but a colouring in, you could colour in a a pink elephant and try and make people believe that this is what is standing behind the picket fence. Looking at a very large b&w scan of the Moorman Polaroid does not show anything of a human outline at all. 

Prayer Man is supported by evidence, be it circumstantial, but it is not something that should be disregarded. All this can be found in the interrogations reports and testimonies from Will Fritz, Jim Hosty and Harry Dean Holmes. Something Savastano doesn’t even touch nor makes mention of. 

2/No witness testimony in the immediate area supports Oswald’s presence and not a single witness identifies him in the area during the shots.

Almost correct (Carolyn Arnold’s statement), but what Savastano omits from his writings is:

The primary statements by Shelley and Lovelady i/e do not contain a word about Oswald at all, as they were taken before Oswald was taken in. Once they witnessed Oswald’s arrival at City Hall, he was brought in as a cop killer, not as the shooter of J.F.K. Now who in their right mind would associate themselves with a cop killer? 

Nor did anyone mention the negro on the bottom of the steps, Carl Edward Jones or Joe Molina who stood next to Shelley and above Otis Williams. Only one person mentioned Joe Molina, and that was Victoria Adams, and that was after her ascend from the 4th floor and being directed back to the T.S.B.D. by a police man.

At the same time not one witness standing on those steps during the shooting says who that Caucasian male actually is. That is troubling no?

And why should they, in those days anyone of non Caucasian build in Tx. was expected to shut up and not volunteer information (Carl Jones, Roy Lewis and Joe Molina).

The women? Same!

Frazier? He was 19 and got the scare of his life by being shoved a statement, for being a co-conspirator, in front of him to sign by ‘old reliable’ Will Fritz.

Lovelady? Got bailed out by Ochus Campbell (the vice-president of the T.S.B.D.) for a weapons charge he was going to be re-arrested for.

Shelley? Oswald’s foreman, why should he side with a commie sympathiser? A cop killer to boot. No thank you……

Plus why should they state were Oswald was at that time, they barely knew him and he was dead by the time quite a few of the T.S.B.D. workerswere interviewed, and who would want the weight of local and national law enforcement agencies on their back for a dead commie sympathiser who had also killed a cop!!!

3/ This person could be from a number of businesses in the vicinity, a passerby, a tourist, any number of people besides Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is about the biggest mistake Savastano can make, not only by disregarding this person as anyone but Oswald and also avoiding using his common sense, but also for the fact that it is no stranger either as was documented in March of 1964, as per CE 1381. If you want evidence Carmine, the stranger scenario is killed off with that document.

4/ While a conspiracy is eminently feasible and supported by substantial evidence, that does not justify the “Prayer Man” claim.

A very strange claim to make, especially when Savastano fails to submit such evidence himself, pot kettle…..

5/ Additional feasibly contending evidence includes the verbal statement of Lee Harvey Oswald himself.Some suggest we cannot trust any of the evidence, which is ridiculous, for how else can we prove anything? If most evidence available indicates something, it is more than likely to have occurred. Consider the amount of work and people required to suppress this idea. It would be a large undertaking of little value, since the matter still proves nothing of substance. It is not a smoking gun in my view, but smoke and mirrors.

Here Savastano makes another whopper of a faux pas. Not only does he ascribe to some of Oswald’s  public statements in a video by Len Osanic, which are not timed in any way btw, but will be by me soon enough in my next paper “Anatomy Of Oswald’s Interrogations”.

But he also produces a very incomplete body of work. What Carmine should have done for starters is introduce the statements made by Fritz, Hosty, Bookhout and Holmes and also their notes and testimony as to Oswald’s whereabouts and more importantly about he destruction of Oswald’s alibi. Something I did in my first paper “Anatomy of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter” From thereon he could have concluded that the lunch room encounter was an utter fake event and from thereon investigate where Oswald actually was during that period, of shooting J.F.K.

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A further update about the Interrogations paper.

At this point it lingers around 310 pages, and it will be presented in a new format namely that of a timeline. I have been trying to pinpoint the available evidence in a time setting which to me has been of great help seeing how and when Oswald was being railroaded. I am happy I have done this these past few months but also a bit tired with it. I have almost worked two years constantly on just Oswald’s interrogations and can not wait to move on to the T.S.B.D. paper, the 3rd of 4.

I hope to release the Interrogations paper in about 2-3 weeks, at least before the anniversary.

 

Alfred D Hodge

Alfred D. Hodge was a gun store owner and also owned a bar next door to that store and was called late in the evening by Will Fritz to come down to City Hall on the 3rd floor to his office to have a look at the Carcano rifle and the pistol supposedly both owned by Oswald.

The other thing that may be of interest to others is Hodge’s elevator journey with two detectives and Jack Ruby, but I am not going further into this. Read more about this HERE.

What got my interest was this passage from Hodge’s W.C. testimony.

Mr. HUBERT. Who was in Captain Fritz’ office when you went in first?
Mr. HODGE. Well—
Mr. HUBERT. Was Oswald there?
Mr. HODGE. I didn’t see Oswald. I have never seen him except on TV, but Captain Fritz has one office I don’t know which office is his, but the one on the left has a glass window in it, and when I went in this hallway, out in the hallway where all the TV cameras was, there was another hallway, and Captain Fritz waved at me–he seen me through this glass and there was several people in there with him, and I went on in a little office not quite as big as this and sat down.

But in his HSCA testimony (thanks to Malcolm Blunt) he describes three (!) sightings, in a very short period, of Oswald being interrogated by Fritz on his own.

Fritz on his own? Was that not the thing, that Fritz couldn’t do this as various F.B.I., Secret Service, A.T.F. and other law enforcement agents were constantly present while Oswald was being interrogated. Quite a few other D.P.D. personnel made mention of the fact that Fritz was hindered by this and could not get Oswald to confess. Personally I doubt he would have ever ‘cracked’ Oswald. But this HSCA statement smells……

MWN Episode 078 – Bart Kamp on Prayer Man, Oswald, & the TSBD

About 6 weeks ago I was approached by S.T. Patrick of Midnight Writer News to do an interview for his show after a few weeks we finally managed to do this. Listening back to it one month after I  did it I have to say I did not do too bad. I am very critical of myself when I do these things, and the good thing is that after listening to 50 mins of it I haven’t turned it off yet!

I am talking about the research done and of course, the 2nd floor lunch room encounter, T.S.B.D., Dallas P.D. and Prayer Man all pass the avenue during this interview.

A thoroughly enjoyable experience.

Thank you S.T. Patrick.

Go HERE to hear the interview and read up about it on the Midnight Writer News Website.

During the interview I mistakenly refer to me as having received the JFK Lancer Pioneer Award, which is wrong it was the New Frontier Award actually. Apologies for the mix-up.

Oswald in the corridor Nov 22nd after his hearing.

Oswald in the corridor Nov 22nd, after his Tippit arraignment which was at 7:10 PM.

A week ago I posted a silent version of this video , I then found this one with audio attached to it from a Canadian TV program. And since hearing the audio now, I can safely say that this is the same moment as in the video posted below this one, but all the way from the other side. Kinda cool. This is where it pays of looking and comparing at the film material of those happenings inside that corridor. There was a lot made that day and the weekend after, but so little has been released in decent quality.

This is after Oswald’s arraignment inside Fritz’s office for the Tippit murder.

 

This door leads to the jail elevator.

Third floor plan Dallas City Hall. Click pic. to enlarge.

And then from that very same door Oswald emerges at about 19:50 hrs, the Patsy sequence. Again requesting legal representation and exclaiming his innocence of shooting The President.

 

Think about it in a time frame of roughly 40 minutes Lee Oswald, twice mentioned the hearing without legal representation. Not allowing him to have any, and steadfastly denying he shot anyone.

The sun plane

The last week there has been some debate about an old myth: The Sun Plane in the Prayer Man images.

Originally brought up by Brian Doyle in his many word salad postings a couple of years ago, and in that whole period Doyle has never brought forward how it is supposed to look or give a rough estimation of it. So like a flat earther he ended up posting “his findings” on the net and everybody else would have to believe his “research” on his say so.

This tactic doesn’t work very well for Doyle, people are smarter than that. And yes Doyle = Cinque, there is no doubt about that.

Then there was Barry Pollard who posted  an image of Billy Lovelady going down the steps in the Wiegman film and claimed that Lovelady wore a black jacket as he could not explain the shadow on the left half on Lovelady’s (2) torso.

Yet with Bill Shelley (3) in the background it could be that Lovelady walks exactly halfway in the shadow and the sun. Be aware that this is an enlargement of a small detail of a 16 mm film shot with a wide angle lens. The steps occupants look much closer together due to these factors.

Prayer Man = 1, Billy Lovelady = 2 and Bill Shelley = 3. Click pic to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

Take a look at the shadow of the people at the front and the sharp angle it is coming at, granted they may not stand exactly parallel to the people on the steps, but for a rough indication this ought to show that the shadow is much longer than originally discussed.

I can pinpoint it even more precise.

Take a look at Buell Wesley Frazier in the Darnell film. And you will see the shadow of the top left corner of the wall (just underneath the TSBD sign) creates a shadow of a 90 degree-ish angle on him, his head is in the shade no less. Above Frazier and JoeMolina is a glass pane and that is partially illuminated and so is the glass on the far eastern side. This illumination is from a reflection of the eastern wall.

Click pic. to enlarge.

Look at Maddie Reese in both images, in Wiegman standing southwesterly below Lovelady in Wiegman and Frazier in Darnell.

Click to enlarge.

So now anyone drawing the TSBD steps in 3D is able to pinpoint how the sun plane is actually going correctly as so far no one has done this as it ought to be. The shadow ends up way more Eastwards than has been shown so far. And honestly I trust the photos more. Furthermore the three people that have started to make 3d drawings of the steps of the T.S.B.D. put the shadowline in as a 2d object, whereas the shadow would resemble some sort of half a sphere instead.

Thanks to Brian Kelshaw.

Thanks to Brian Kelshaw.

You are welcome Brian Doyle!

Gifts From Uncle Malcolm Part 5

Thanks again to Malcolm Blunt for some mega interesting documents.

Photo: Alan Dale

Some of these files are as PDFs, so click on the link to get access.

HSCA Sidney A Martin 210877

Richard Randolph Carr-Handwritten FBI Statement 030264

James Files

James Files, click pic to enlarge.

James Malley.

James Malley, click pic to enlarge.

James Malley, click pic to enlarge.

Walter E. Nelson.

Walter E Nelson, click pic to enlarge.

Walter E Nelson, click pic to enlarge.

Gifts from Uncle Malcolm Part 4

Interesting set. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for sending me these.

Shanklin to Sorrels and handing over a list of photographers around the crime scene. The list is missing of course.

Gordon Shanklin to Forrest Sorrells. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Doorway Man discussed with Bill Shelley and Roy Truly.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 31 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 431 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Oswald’s description over the police radio, most interesting doc.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

 

 

 

Lee Oswald’s ring and bracelet.

Here is a nice high res. image of Lee Oswald’s ring from the marines and his bracelet.

Lee Oswald’s Marine Core ring and his bracelet. Pic. courtesy Dallas Municipal Archives. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt. Click to enlarge.