Business as usual or meet the lone gunman(UA-66627984-1)

Marrion Baker

TSBD 2nd floor drawings

Special thanks once again to Gary Murr.

If anyone feels inclined to build a 3D model then do let me see the end result :)

These are  detailed drawings made by members of the FBI Exhibits Section of various areas of the TSBD building. They were made in the first week of December, 1963, and were used in conjunction with the eventual construction of the FBI model of Dealey Plaza, TSBD, etc

These are of very nice detail and shows how short the area was from the first door to the lunch room door. So Oz was standing in the opening of the lunch room and Baker was inside with the door behind him shut, and then Truly leant in……….right.

FBI File:  62-109060-3961, Box 104A, Folder A1-1.

Black Op Radio April 2017

Thanks to Jim DiEugenio for putting me forward to do Len Osanic’s radio show Black Op Radio.

Just over an hour’s worth talking about how I started and of course the second floor lunch room encounter fugezi.

Great fun, but I was tired and a bit nervous and due to that I lost my train of thought twice.

Thanks Len and Jim!!

Listen to it HERE. This link downloads the MP3 file.

Or listen at Len’s website. Show #831

Meme by Stan Dane.

Time to make some movies about the 2nd floor paper soon.

 

2nd floor lunchroom encounter talk

This coming Saturday I am giving an informal talk at the Dealey Plaza UK meeting. It will be about the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter that never was.

Venue The Flying Horse in London. 52 Wilson St, London EC2A 2ER

Start at about 13:30

In about a week the update to my essay will be published as well, an additional 30 pages/8,000 words extra stuff.

 

Marrion Baker in Hughes

A week or so ago Robin Unger posted a Hughes GIF with Marrion baker riding alongside Cam Car 3. Seen about halfway the footage, just after the splice in the video below of which the GIF has been repeated a few times.

 

Here is a still.

Marrion Baker in the Hughes film. Click to enlarge.

 

Here is a map of Dealey Plaza which marks Baker’s location on Houston captured by Hughes.

Baker in Hughes on Dealey Plaza Robert Cutler Map.

 

The reader ought to familiarise himself with the distance from the front of the TSBD and Baker’s position on the map.

From what I can see the shooting has yet to start or has just started as Baker looks passive nor does his head change as to looking upward and seeing those pigeons. Nothing looks out of the ordinary.

Then the camera men inside the cars. They are still looking backwards towards the corner of Main and Houston where a toss of film went hilariously wrong and ‘everyone had a good laugh’. This has been confirmed by several of the car’s occupants in Richard Trask’s book Pictures Of The Pain.

Baker’s testimony regarding this matter.

Will you take up your trip from there, please?
Mr. BAKER – As we approached the corner there of Main and Houston we were making a right turn, and as I came out behind that building there, which is the county courthouse, the sheriff building, well, there was a strong wind hit me and I almost lost my balance.

Mr. BELIN – How fast would you estimate the speed of your motorcycle as you turned the corner, if you know?
Mr. BAKER – I would say–it wasn’t very fast. I almost lost balance, we were just creeping along real slowly.
Mr. DULLES – That is turning from Main into Houston?
Mr. BAKER – That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN – You turned-do you have any actual speed estimate as you turned that corner at all or just you would say very slow?
Mr. BAKER – I would say from around 5 to 6 or 7 miles an hour, because you can’t hardly travel under that and you know keep your balance.
Mr. BELIN – From what direction was the wind coming When it hit you?
Mr. BAKER – Due north.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
Now, tell us what happened after you turned on to Houston Street?
Mr. BAKER – AS I got myself straightened up there, I guess it took me some 20, 30 feet, something like that, and it was about that time that I heard these shots come out.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
Could you just tell us what you heard and what you saw and what you did?
Mr. BAKER – As I got, like I say as I got straightened up there, I was, I don’t know when these shots started coming off, I just–it seemed to me like they were high, and I just happened to look right straight up—
Mr. DULLES – I wonder if you would just tell us on that chart and I will try to follow with the record where you were at this time, you were coming down Houston.
Mr. BELIN – Sir, if you can–I plan to get that actual chart in a minute. If we could—-
Mr. DULLES – I want to see where he was vis-a-vis the building on the chart there.
Mr. BAKER – This is Main Street and this is Houston. This is the corner that I am speaking of; I made the right turn here. The motorcade and all, as I was here turning the front car was turning up here, and as I got somewhere about right here—-
Mr. DULLES – That is halfway down the first block.
Mr. BELIN – No, sir; can I interrupt you for a minute?
Mr. DULLES – Certainly.
Mr. BELIN – Officer Baker, when we were in Dallas on March 20, Friday, you walked over with me and showed me about the point you thought your motorcycle was when you heard the first shot, do you remember doing that?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN – And then we paced this off measuring it from a distance which could be described as the north curbline of Main Street as extended?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir; that would be this one right across here.
Mr. BELIN – And we paced it off as to where you thought your motorcycle was when you heard the first shot and do you remember offhand about where you said this was as to what distance it was, north of the north curbline of Main Street?
Mr. BAKER – We approximated it was 60 to 80 feet there, north of the north curbline of Main on Houston.
Mr. DULLES – Thank you.
Mr. BELIN – Does that answer your question?
Mr. DULLES – That answers my question entirely.
Mr. BELIN – In any event you heard the first shot, or when you heard this noise did you believe it was a shot or did you believe it was something else?
Mr. BAKER – It hit me all at once that it was a rifle shot because I had just got back from deer hunting and I had heard them pop over there for about a week.
Mr. BELIN – What kind of a weapon did it sound like it was coming from?
Mr. BAKER – It sounded to me like it was a high-powered rifle.
Mr. BELIN – All right. When you heard the first shot or the first noise, what did you do and what did you see?
Mr. BAKER – Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.
Mr. BELIN – What would the building right in front of you be?
Mr. BAKER – It would be this Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN – That would be the building located on what corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. BAKER – That would be the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN – All right. And you thought it was either from that building or the building located where?
Mr. BAKER – On the northeast corner.
Mr. BELIN – All right. Did you see or hear or do anything else after you heard the first noise?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir. As I was looking up, all these pigeons began to fly up to the top of the buildings here and I saw those come up and start flying around.
Mr. BELIN – From what building, if you know, do you think those pigeons came from?
Mr. BAKER – I wasn’t sure, but I am pretty sure they came from the building right on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN – Then what did you see or do?
Mr. BAKER – Well, I immediately revved that motorcycle up and was going up there to see if I could help anybody or see what was going on because I couldn’t see around this bend.
Mr. BELIN – Well, between the time you revved up the motorcycle had you heard any more shots?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir; I heard–now before I revved up this motorcycle, I heard the, you know, the two extra shots, the three shots.

And later.

Mr. BELIN – All right. After the third shot, then, what did you do?
Mr. BAKER – Well, I revved that motorcycle up and I went down to the corner which would be approximately 180 to 200 feet from the point where we had first stated, you know, that we heard the shots.
Mr. BELIN – What distance did you state? What we did on Friday afternoon, we paced off from the point you thought you heard the first shot to the point at which you parked the motorcycle, and this paced off to how much?
Mr. BAKER – From 180 to 200 feet.
Mr. BELIN – That is where you parked the motorcycle?
Mr. BAKER – Yes.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
I wonder if we could go on this plat, Officer Baker, and first if you could put on here with this pen, and I have turned it upside down.
With Exhibit 361, show us the spot at which you stopped your motorcycle approximately and put a “B” on it, if you would.
Mr. BAKER – Somewhere at this position here, which is approximately 10 feet from this signal light here on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
You have put a dot on Exhibit 361 with the line going to “B” and the dot represents that signal light, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN – You, on Friday, March 20, parked your motorcycle where you thought it was parked on November 22 and then we paced off the distance from the nearest point of the motorcycle to the stop light and it was 10 feet, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
Now, I show you Exhibit 478 and ask you if you will, on this exhibit put an arrow with the letter “B” to this stoplight.
Mr. BAKER – Talking about this one here?
Mr. BELIN – The stoplight from which we measured the distance to the motorcycle. The arrow with the letter “B” points to the stoplight, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN – And you stopped your motorcycle 10 feet to the east of that stoplight, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN – We then paced off the distance as to approximately how far it was from the place your motorcycle was parked to the doorway of the School Book Depository Building, do you remember doing that, on March 20?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN – And it appears on Exhibit 477 that that doorway is recessed, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN – Do you remember how far that was from the place your motorcycle was parked to the doorway?
Mr. BAKER – Approximately 45 feet.
Mr. BELIN – This same stoplight appears as you look at Exhibit 477 to the left of the entranceway to the building, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN – After you parked your motorcycle, did you notice anything that was going on in the area?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir. As I parked here
Mr. BELIN – You are pointing on Exhibit 361 to the place that you have marked with “B.”
Mr. BAKER – And I was looking westward which would be in this direction.
Mr. BELIN – By that, you are pointing down the entrance to the freeway and kind of what I will call the peninsula of the park there?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN – Toward the triple underpass.
Representative BOGGS -Where is the underpass?
Mr. BAKER – The underpass is down here. This is really Elm Street, and this would be Main and Commerce and they all come together here, and there is a triple overpass.
Representative BOGGS -Right.
Mr. BAKER – At this point, I looked down here as I was parking my motorcycle and these people on this ground here, on the sidewalk, there were several of them falling, and they were rolling around down there, and all these people were rushing back, a lot of them were grabbing their children, and I noticed one, I didn’t know who he was, but there was a man ran out into the crowd and back.
Mr. BELIN – Did you notice anything else?
Mr. BAKER – Except there was a woman standing–well, all these people were running, and there was a woman screaming, “Oh, they have shot that man, they have shot that man.”
Mr. BELIN – All right.
Now, you are on Exhibit 361, and you are pointing to people along the area or bordering the entrance to that expressway and that bit of land lying to the west and north, as to where you describe these people, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – That is correct, sir.
Mr. DULLES – Would you mark where the overpass would be, right at the end of those lines, just so we get oriented on it.
Mr. BELIN – I am trying to see down here.
Mr. DULLES – I just wanted to get a general idea.
Mr. BELIN – On Exhibit 361, sir, it wouldn’t show but it basically would be off in this direction coming down this way. The entrance to the freeway would go down here and the overpass would roughly be down here.
Mr. DULLES – As far as that?
Mr. BELIN – Yes, sir; I think Mr. Redlich is going to get a picture that will better describe it.
Mr. DULLES – All right.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
Is there anything else you saw there, Officer Baker, before you ran to the building?
Mr. BAKER – No, sir; not at that time.
Mr. BELIN – All right.
Then what did you do after surveying the situation?
Mr. BAKER – I had it in mind that the shots came from the top of this building here.
Mr. BELIN – By this building, you are referring to what?
Mr. BAKER – The Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN – Go on.
Representative BOGGS -You were parked right in front of the Building?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir; ran right straight to it.
Representative BOGGS -Right.

Now suspicious or not regarding Baker measuring out with Belin his distance after he heard the first shot.

What can be derived from this part of the episode is that from a distance p.o.v. there is not much to play with regarding observing pigeons coming over/of the roof of the TSBD and then the so called revving up to park the bike just on Elm near the side walk.

Debunking the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter with The Lone Gunman Podcast

Episode 124 of the Lone Gunman podcast, yours truly for two hours talking about the 2nd floor lunch room fugezi.

http://www.tlgpodcast.com/shows/ep124-debunking-the-2nd-floor-lunchroom-encounter

During the talk I make a mistake: I attributed exposing Oswald as a subversive to Jack Revill was Hosty and not Bookhout.

Thank you Rob Clark and the 1,425 people who have listened to it these past 48 hours already.

whos-on-first

By: Stan Dane

 

Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter.

Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter.

 

Last updated Sept 9th 2017

This essay got too big for its own good, more than 23,000 words which resulted in the blog software unable to cope and ended up crashing numerous times.

Thanks to Bernard Wilds webmaster of DPUK we now have a PDF of the Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter available, at 134 pages a light read ;)

Update Dec 6th 2016: this article has been awarded the Mary Ferrell and JFK Lancer New Frontier Award in late November.

 

Credit: Stan Dane.

Credit: Stan Dane.

Credit: Stan Dane.

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