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TSBD

The Death of Prayer Woman

The Death of Prayer Woman

 

It has been an interesting week during the break during the X-Mas and New Years period, but for us ROKCers this last week we made some cool discoveries and achieve a thing or two yay!

I shall begin with the most important one and that is the complete and utter destruction of the phenomena called Prayer Woman, something created by Duncan MacRae of the JFKAssassination forum in September 2015. This was done at the time when the stranger scenario as an alternative to anyone else from the TSBD was completely killed off by yours truly and the spread sheets demonstrating this (this was based on Richard Hocking’s and Sean Murphy’s deduction work). This stranger scenario was completely debunked by the testimonies of almost all of the TSBD employees such as in CE 1381.

Duncan MacRae hails from Glasgow Scotland and has an interest in the photographic evidence, so he says. His knowledge of the technical side of photography is practically non existent  and he relies on a few friends (such as Craig Lamson from Ft. Wayne in Indiana) who don’t seem to fare much better or other clowns who hide behind fugezi names, such as John Mytton (this person has been dead for 200 years already). I find people who hide behind fictitious names total cowards and above all I will not listen to one word they say as everything they do say is suspect from the word get go. This goes especially for the next individual.

Albert Doyle, in JFK Research, he is probably one of the most manipulative zealots that is gracing this club. He uses his dead father’s name. How do I and my fellow ROKCers know this? That is because several of us have looked into this and so has Tom Scully. This member has been accused of being a CIA plant at the Deep Politics Form in 2012 and got others banned where it should have been him who should have been shown the door. Since then this individual has mostly posted vile and utter garbage messages on various forums relating to the JFK Assassination.

Albert Doyle has been confronted with this BS and he keeps quiet when this is happening. Our suspicion is that it is his son Brian Doyle (wonder what his brothers and sisters Stephen Doyle, Patricia Doyle, Christine Doyle and Theresa Doyle think of this?).  There are three accounts at Amazon handled by this ‘person’. One is his dead dad, the other under the name Brain Doyle and the third by the name Ralph Yates (a character from the JFK Assassination-era) .  Three accounts all by one person, think of this what you will….

His review at Amazon on Stan Dane’s book reads as follows (bear in mind Amazon does not allow links to outside sources so they are not included).

PMBookCover 2.9.22.15

The Reopen The Kennedy Case (ROKC) website is behind this book as Stan Dane and Greg Parker are regular organizing members. A month ago Assassination researcher Duncan MacRae posted a blow-up of the film frame image of Prayer Man taken by WBAP camera-man James Darnell. The blow-up image clearly shows the long dark hair and arm posture of a woman, therefore refuting the thesis of this book that Prayer Man is Lee Harvey Oswald. But even better the MacRae blow-up clearly shows 4 buttons (or fasteners) on the garment worn by Prayer Man, the bottom-most of which is too low to be on any clothing worn by Oswald. This is clear proof that the coat or dress being worn by Prayer Man could not possibly match the known clothing worn by Oswald that day.

If you look at the link below you’ll see MacRae’s blown-up image of Prayer Man in the portal of the Texas School Book Depository in Dealey Plaza taken seconds after president Kennedy was shot. MacRae has drawn arrows pointing to the buttons, or possible loop or cloth fasteners, that are clearly visible in the blow-up. There’s no doubt that these are coat or dress buttons or fasteners because they appear exactly where they should be if so. So anyone credibly researching this claim would need to answer for them and how they affect the evidence. If you scan this review section or the internet in general those who subscribe to the Oswald as Prayer Man theory refuse to even address this conclusive evidence. They stay away from it like the Wicked Witch Of The West avoids water. They even falsely claim the buttons are an artifact of computer enlargement, however they can’t substantiate that once forced into the technical detail involved with such a claim. Their claim that the buttons are pixel quirks caused by the film grain being too small for enlargement actually works against them once you credibly analyze it. They can’t explain how there would be 4 buttons right where they should be?

The buttons or fasteners are prime evidence that Oswald cannot be Prayer Man because the lowest of the buttons is too low to match Oswald’s known clothing that day. The ROKC Prayer Man advocates have been conspicuously, self-destructively, and uncredibly unable to answer this. Instead they run from it and try to ignore it. In doing so they forfeit the credibility of their entire website.

Here is MacRae’s blow-up of Prayer Man. The buttons or fasteners are plainly visible and therefore require credible scientific explanation. So far ROKC hasn’t been able to give any:

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You would think Albert “Dead Man Walking” Doyle has some sort of expertise under his belt, but unless it is trolling he has no qualifications when it comes to any type of photography, he doesn’t even know how to post an image on a forum……..I kid you not. And he is  being lambasted for it by a group of deniers. I shall spare you all the details as it is page after page at a certain forum.

The funniest thing is that Doyle-MacRae-Lamson do not have much in common. Doyle is a conspiracy theorist whereas the other two are of the opposite opinion (Oswald did it), it makes an amusing read especially when one has to consider that MacRae is just winding Doyle up.

*****

I shall attach some of the pix which are still grabs from the three youtube films Duncan MacRae has plastered on the web and a gif all regarding the fugezi called Prayer Woman.

 

MacRae does not supply any supporting evidence for his assertion(s) besides a set of squares and arrows that supposedly show a purse,  a black plastic shopping bag and more importantly a set of buttons of a large overcoat.

The coloring in image two is a leftover after messing with brightness, contrast and possibly sharpening.  Nor do I have an explanation for the blackening of the area to the right of Prayer Man (the window behind him), perhaps Duncan MacRae does……..what I do know is that it has been added and is not a result of lowering the density. Compare that image with any of the others in that section and you will realise that what happened to the glass behind Prayer Man simply isn’t right.

The Jimmy Darnell Film

Let me explain why Duncan MacRae, Albert Doyle and Craig Lamson are just way way off. Below you see a screen grab of the Darnell film (shot on 16mm film originally), this is how big the actual image is in digital format from a DVD , and it also shows you how big Prayer Man actually is inside this pic. This screen grab is from the Beyond JFK: The Question Of Conspiracy DVD that came with JFK The Movie. So for starters what generational copy are we talking about here?

20130908-003704

The original Darnell film is gone (it went with the Wiegman film to NBC in NY and has never been seen since), we know that the 6th Floor Museum has a 1st generation copy  so let’s assume it is this copy that the producers used. So this 1st generation copy was duplicated and then of course duplicated for the DVD of which we have  a still grab,  but it is saved in a compressed format as a jpeg.

It could be even worse from a quality p.o.v. with this grab, and we think this is actually the case. We think that it is a copy from video tape and not the 1st generation copy film itself. This would make the end result even less crisp and more fuzzier and could import artifacts such as the ones shown in the still image above, which are hard to see but which I shall enlarge, adjust its levels and show below. The image is littered with dots and streaks.

Prayer Man

Click on picture to enlarge.

There are a few enlarging techniques that can be used. I don’t know what was used for the image posted by Sean Murphy.

One is to increase is its actual size, another is to increase its dpi (dots per inch) and within these two a few elements can be (un)ticked such as scale styles, constrain proportion and resample image.

Then there is also which way to resample the image and from that there is an array to choose from:

Automatic

Photoshop chooses the resampling method based on the document type and whether the document is scaling up or down.

Preserve Details (enlargement)

When this method is chosen, a Noise reduction slider becomes available for smoothing out noise as you upscale the image.

Bicubic Smoother (enlargement)

A good method for enlarging images based on Bicubic interpolation but designed to produce smoother results.

Bicubic Sharper (reduction)

A good method for reducing the size of an image based on Bicubic interpolation with enhanced sharpening. This method maintains the detail in a resampled image. If Bicubic Sharper oversharpens some areas of an image, try using Bicubic.

Bicubic (smoother gradients)

A slower but more precise method based on an examination of the values of surrounding pixels. Using more complex calculations, Bicubic produces smoother tonal gradations than Nearest Neighbour or Bilinear.

Nearest Neighbor (hard edges)

A fast but less precise method that replicates the pixels in an image. This method preserves hard edges and produces a smaller file in illustrations containing edges that are not anti-aliased. However, this method can produce jagged effects, which become apparent when you distort or scale an image or perform multiple manipulations on a selection.

Bilinear

A method that adds pixels by averaging the color values of surrounding pixels. It produces medium-quality results.

I myself have not played around a lot with the image when it comes to enlarging it, I am of the opinion that a larger scan needs to become available first, even though the image we have shows a lot of detail and we have discovered a lot of people who are in this shot, a better image is still needed to make it the icing on the cake. The only way to enlarge the image I have done is by using Bicubic Smoother, which is overall used to enlarge images.

Increasing its size will increase  its exposure of digital artifacts, something Albert “Dead Man Walking” Doyle and Duncan MacRae fail to understand.

The image below is an image that Sean Murphy posted, and as you can see this image has already been enlarged and enhanced it displays some of the artifacts already. The purpose of Sean Murphy posting these two photos next to each other was to point out the similarities when it comes to features between Prayer Man and lee Harvey Oswald.

Duncan MacRae uses this image and manipulates it to such an extend with additional brightness/contrast/sharpening adjustments to point out that he is a she and that she is wearing a large overcoat, holds a purse and a back plastic bag. You can check out all this conjecture out in the slideshow above with the still grabs of his videos.

Ok so let’s start rebutting this utter rubbish. The enhancement that has been applied  is visible in the entire image and not just in the close-up, something that Albert Doyle, Duncan MacRae and Craig Lamson steadfastly ignore and/or keep quiet about. The photo below shows the so called buttons which are attributed to fantasise about Prayer Woman’s overcoat are visible in all the parts of the picture below in the grey squares, the streaks and buttons most likely come from the transfer from video tape to digital capture and enhancement. If you take the original image of Darnell above and crank up its size then you can see the artifacts already. The buttons story was dead the day it was ‘invented’. This is something Craig Lamson could have pointed out yonks ago and stop the discussion of this drivel there and then. But the local ‘expert’ kept schtumm instead.
.

Prayer Woman Dead and Buried

Click on picture to enlarge.

 

The bags and the purse are as easy to refute and this is mainly because Duncan MacRae’s sloppy observational work.

The plastic shopping bag is actually human hair. The red circled person was discovered two years ago due to her foot sticking out, but the head part was always fuzzy, and only a few weeks ago when Mick Purdy sharpened the Darnell image his way did the distinction become clearer, and that she had quite a big hairdo. So that kills the black shopping bag besides the button theory as well.

Human Hair PM

Click on picture to enlarge.

 

Finally the purse. Besides a quick drawing around a suspected area Duncan MacRae offers nothing else in support of the purse theory either (a pattern has started to emerge…..).

In the Dave Wiegman film  Prayer Man is holding an object that seems to reflect considerably. In the shots below you will see he holds it either in front of his mouth or holds it in front of his chest. Now as a photographer who has worked in advertising and shooting stills many years ago only a few objects can create such a reflection, one would be a shiny metal object. The other glass. Now let’s also bear in mind where Prayer Man is standing: in the shadow. The object he is holding is in front of him and may just catch a ray or two on the edge of that particular shadow.

Check out the 2 fuzzy images below.

Wiegman_Analysis_5Wiegman_Analysis_1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a drastic enlargement I managed to make from a scan we obtained from NARA in Nov. 2015

Prayer Man in Wiegman-ROKC Scan Nov 2015

 

Now then what purse would make such a reflection? That better be some huge diamond on there. And let me just emphasise, even with the quality of the image above, Prayer Man is anything but feminine.

A more plausible scenario would be that Prayer Man is drinking from a bottle, and this could be partially backed with the Wiegman images and the ones that were taken after the Dallas Police Department had secured their so called ‘crime scene’ being The Texas School Book Depository. Important element to add is that the bottle was there for quite some time, since it is still there when female TSBD employees are captured leaving and so is Captain Will Fritz

Check the gallery (all pix by William Allen) below.

 

  1. When asked for the actual files Duncan MacRae of the JFKAssassinationForum used, he refused to hand them over, later on claiming they were deleted.
  2. When asked after that reply to redo his movements with the images he refused to do so as well. . He did invite us to go to his forum, when he actually put his claim of Prayer woman and her buttons and bag actually at the Education Forum so the point of us going there is?
  3. The invite made no logical sense to debate Craig Lamson over there since he is a member at EF and could have jumped in that thread at any time, but they would have liked us to go there only to be entrapped by half a dozen deniers.
  4. Craig Lamson produced an image for us to check the EXIF data on but it had absolutely nothing to do with the Darnell images, it was a close-up of a plane.
  5. When he asked me whether I would be willing to hand over my images to say Michael Cross I offered them up without hesitation. Michael Cross had nothing to do with ROKC and from a photography p.o.v. challenged D.M. way before I did. Michael is now a member at ROKC btw.

 

Avoidance is meaningful.

When someone avoids a question, it’s because they are hiding something. When you avoid providing files, it’s because you are hiding them and do not want to admit it.

When the slightest mention of what it means if PM is a man is avoided, then it is because the consequences of it are being avoided also. It plays to the PW ploy to argue over PW images because none of the naysayers wish to entertain one word of what a male gender PM proves, and that is that he is Lee Oswald. That is not just from looking at a fuzzy picture but also from the barrage of evidence that is there from his interrogations and the fugezi regarding the 2nd floor lunch room encounter. All explained in my movie Only The Shadow Knows – Prayer Man, More Than Just a Fuzzy Picture.  (the hint is in the title….in case you did not twig it)

So let’s set aside the truth of what the gender really is for a moment, the proof consequence of even the hypothetical male gender is nearly as toxic as is actual proof of male gender. Keep that cat inside the bag and the bag inside the box.

Because of their avoidance of a discussion of the meaning of PM’s gender, the unassailability of the logic of identification by process of elimination is confirmed as is the completeness and integrity of the analysis in this case.

By virtue of their own avoidance, they are freely admitting that Prayer Man is proved to be Oswald if Prayer Man is male. I simply refer to my spread sheets based on Sean Murphy’s and Richard Hocking’s work. It’s evident also that this Prayer Woman fiasco was started after the stranger scenario was killed off by my spreadsheets and bringing up CE1310.

Not one detail of it has been disputed except to debate the gender of PM, and that wasn’t even inside the matrix inside the box, Oswald was.

Now as to the pictures used in the movies you posted on YouTube, as Ed Ledoux has clearly shown that Duncan MacRae did alter the images, the enormous increase in contrast and density is a prime example but also the paint job he did ever so crudely on the window behind Prayer Man.

Then the method of alteration, it proves absolutely nothing at all. The method cannot be verified, which means he has entered badgeman-land and it is merely an opinion nothing more than that and furthermore if I may add it defies common sense.

Barely anyone else (and the ones that do have shown their true colors) can see in the image what you pretend is there and only with the assistance of arrows, outlines and inserted text to push people over the edge to believe this charade.

What almost everyone seems to forget is the fact that the photograph from the Darnell film is the icing on the cake, it is NOT the irrefutable proof that Oswald is standing outside with Shelley (as he said during his interrogation) and later with Buell Wesley Frazier as has come to light with the documentation that is available and the newspaper reports published that day and the next two days after.

I think it is safe to say that Duncan MacRae’s Prayer Woman theory (!!!) died a death, and there is no need to discuss this fugezi any further.

Albert Doyle take some notes in between trolling and learn to understand the basics of photography.

Craig Lamson show some backbone you spineless wanker. Really your behavior is way below par.

Robert-Tommy 8

 

Add on March 28th 2016:

Duncan MacRae has more or less pulled away from all this, and by his own admittance claimed it was a wind up, but Albert Doyle has lied his way continuously ever since my last writings. Shifted his musings to wherever he could, to avoid having to supply direct answers asked by others and he himself completely failed to produce one iota of evidence himself. In 2012 he was accused by others of being a CIA plant, why doesn’t this sound stupid at all…………..

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Linda Giovanna Zambanini has made some startling discoveries while looking at some of the Jim Murray photos I published a month or so ago, this particular shot has Maddie Reese and the lady in black who can be seen in Altgens 6, Wiegman and Darnell. It looks, from the paperwork that this is Ruth Dean, although it also could be Sarah Stanton. But I need to see a picture of Sarah Stanton before I lean either way. For now I stick with Ruth Dean, which makes the search for Sarah Stanton just more interesting.

Here they are on the right.

In front of the Dal Tex building. Maddie Reese and

In front of the Dal Tex building. Maddie Reese and Ruth Dean.

 

*****

Then there is the notification we just got that the Mary Ferrell site has published the best books of 2015. Not only is Greg Parker’s Lee Harvey Oswald’s Cold War: Why the Kennedy Assassination should be Reinvestigated – Volumes One & Two in it but so is Stan Dane’s book  Prayer Man: Out of the Shadows and into the Light and there is a  link to my film mentioned in this segment. Thanks very much Rex Bradford!

Prayer Man by Stan Dane and LHO Cold War by Greg Parker

Billy Nolan Lovelady and Bill Shelley did leave the steps almost immediately after the shots were fired

Billy Nolan Lovelady and Bill Shelly did leave the steps almost immediately after the shots were fired.

 

This post has been amended on Jan 29th, Feb 14th, Feb 16th, Oct. 14th 2016. and Aug. 29th 2017.

And Oct. 30th and Nov 7th 2018.

I am going to put an end to this debate whether Lovelady and Shelly stayed on the steps as they claimed in their Warren Commission testimonies and to which certain people subscribe  to for some obscure reason, there is just plenty to refute this rubbish assertion.

Photo evidence.

For starters, take a look at the Gerda Dunckel gifs below and check Lovelady’s shirt in the very first few frames and also check out the large still I snagged from PBS Breaking The News, click to enlarge, yes that shirt is checkered, compare it to other garments of a lighter colour or the polka dot coat which do not smudge due to  motion and quality loss. Then look at Shelly, with his black suit and his facial and hair features. For reference of who we are talking about I suggest you check out Billy Lovelady’s and Bill Shelley’s pages I have made which contain plenty of photographs of these two individuals. Both pages are still under construction but there is plenty to see from a visual point of view.

 

 

Lovelady and Shelly in Couch-1

Click on pic. to enlarge.

Upon looking at the image by Couch we see that Shelly wears a black jacket and that Lovelady’s shirt has black horizontal stripes in it. I will place a close-up below. This is not the end result of sharpening and cannot be construed as a digital artefact. Click to enlarge the shot above and you will see that these stripes are nowhere else to be seen on this image. The polka dot coat stays as is, the camouflage/dot coat as well. And even in the light toned skirts/coats there are no such markings to be seen.

Here is a collage of Lovelady’s shirt in many settings.

Lovelady collage

Click pic. to enlarge.

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Add on photographs Oct 14th 2016.

This ROKC Scan of a Couch film still at first looks very harsh and doesn’t overall have much information, but it does happen to show a lot regarding our illustrious duo. This print comes from the Richard E. Sprague Collection from the National Archives.

 

billy-lovelady-and-bill-shelley-in-malcolm-couch-rokc-scan

Click on pic to enlarge.

I applied various ways of sharpening with overall decent results to be absolutely positive that these two are Shelley and Lovelady. Lovelady’s shirt is a dead give away and so is the shape of Shelley, compare that with the collage below.

lovelady-and-shelley-in-couch-okt-2016-bk-rokc

Click on pic to enlarge.

shelley-collage

Click on pic to enlarge.

Thanks to Ed Ledoux. Lovelady’s bald patch and Shelley’s white sports shirt collar are recognisable as well.

 

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Now let’s have a look at the paperwork such as Lovelady’s and Shelley’s statements and testimonies.

Billy Lovelady

Lovelady’s very first handwritten statement on Nov 22nd 1963 makes no mention of Oswald even after he is paraded past him.

But that very same statement also makes no mention of them (him and Shelley) leaving the steps either. He actually states: ”After it was over we went back into the building and went to work” With the ‘went to work’ bit stricken through. This bit is omitted from the typed up and signed report. See the first two documents below.

But then Billy Lovelady states in the FBI report by Robert M. Barrett from the same day as his affidavit to the DPD: ”immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelly started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away west on Elm Street under the triple underpass. He and Shelley then returned to the Texas School Book Depository Building”. During this time he saw no one run out of the building or saw no suspicious individuals. 

Lovelady also mentions in document CE 1381, from March 1964, the following: “I recall that following the shooting, I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy’s car had stopped William Shelley and myself stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side of the building”.

 

Add on Aug. 29th 2017:

Then Lovelady talked to a reporter of The Houston Post on the 22nd as well. Lovelady describes W.B. Barnett who ran in front of them towards the rail road yards. Which corresponds with the still photograph of the Couch film.

 

Joe Marshall Smith, Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady in the Couch film. Click photo to enlarge.

 

Bill Shelley.

Shelly (trying to enter the police vehicle) leaves for the DPD station at 13:30 with Danny Arce Garcia and Bonnie Ray Williams as seen below.

Bill Shelly Bonnie Ray Williams Danny Arce Garcia Dealey Plaza-ROKC Scan

 

He states in his very first D.P.D. affidavit on Nov. 22nd  “I ran across the street to a corner of the park. I ran into a girl crying and she said the president had been shot. This girls name is Gloria Calvery. Who is an employee of this same building. I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened.”  This first statement, like Lovelady’s, contains no reference to Lee Harvey Oswald either. I also value this first statement for the inclusion of him running across after the shots were fired.

FBI Statement of Bill Shelly March 18th 1964 CE 1381: “Immediately following the shooting Billy Lovelady and I left…….”

The primary statements of these two  contradict their WC testimonies, which no one from the WC bothered to ask about while they were giving their testimony.

Warren Commission Testimonies.

Now the only thing that I find true of their WC testimonies is the fact that they left the steps together.

Their timings are way off and Weisberg addressed their rubbish 50 years ago already. Go to his archive and read about it: William Shelley and Billy Lovelady.

In Shelly’s WC testimony things are given a nice twist, they stay there for a minute, they have Gloria Calvery coming up the steps doing her bit which contradicts his first statement. The island gets a mention here. Truly and Baker are seen after 3 or 4 minutes! And then they leave and then are re-entering through the back of the building.
Mr. BALL. Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY. Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said “The President has been shot” and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL. Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. SHELLEY. That little, old side street runs in front of our building and Elm Street.
Mr. BALL. It dead ends?
Mr. SHELLEY. There’s concrete between the two streets.
Mr. BALL. Elm Street dead ends there just beyond the building, doesn’t it?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, that’s also Elm that goes under the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. That is Elm that goes under the triple underpass?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, where they split.
Mr. BALL. You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL. How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY. We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL. The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL. While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. FALL. Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL. She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Going to watch the rest of the parade were you?
Mr. SHFZLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The Vice President hadn’t gone by, had he, by your place?
Mr. SHELLEY. I don’t know. I didn’t recognize him. I did recognize Mr. Kennedy and his suntan I had been hearing about.
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY. We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL. And Truly?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see them go into the building7
Mr. SHELLEY. So; we didn’t watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin’ to go in.
Mr. BALL. Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, they were moving, yes.
Mr. BAL.L. Were they running?
Mr. SHELLEY. That, I couldn’t swear to; there were so many people around.
Mr. BALL. What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY. We walked on down to the flrst railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL. At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes ; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
Mr. BILL. When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY. I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. SHELLEY. He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. BALL. Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Who else did you see?
Nr. SHELLEY. That’s all we saw immediately.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. SHELLEY. I saw her that day but I don’t remember where I saw her.
Mr. BALL. You don’t remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. SHELLEY. It was after we entered the building.
Mr. BALL. You think you did see her after you entered the building?
Nr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir; I thought it was on the fourth floor awhile after that.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Illr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in; I don’t know whether they were Secret Service or FBI or what but they wanted me to take them upstairs, so we went up and started searching the various floors.

Billy Lovelady fantasises even some more during his Warren Commission testimony.

I have added some notes in bold.

Mr. BALL – Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yeah.
Mr. BALL – When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY – Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or–she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn’t know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.
Mr. BALL – First of all, let’s get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY – Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL – Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY – Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes—
Mr. BALL – You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – Did you see anything there?
Mr. LOVELADY – No, sir; well, just people running.
Mr. BALL – That’s all?
Mr. LOVELADY – And hollerin.
Mr. BALL – How did you happen to go down there?
Mr. LOVELADY – I don’t know, because everybody was running from that way and naturally, I guess—
Mr. BALL – They were running from that way or toward that way?
Mr. LOVELADY – Toward that way; everybody thought it was coming from that direction.
Mr. BALL – By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY – As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.
Mr. BALL – How many steps?
Mr. LOVELADY – Twenty, 25.
Mr. BALL – Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes. At no time in the Couch film is Lovelady seen looking back.
Mr. BALL – Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY – Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL – Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY – Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL – And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, sir; sure did.
Mr. BALL – You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. LOVELADY – Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr. BALL – Three minutes is a long time.
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, it’s—I say approximately; I can’t say because I don’t have a watch; it could.
Mr. BALL – Had people started to run?
Mr. LOVELADY – Well, I couldn’t say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn’t looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps–see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps.
Mr. BALL – Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – Did you run or walk?
Mr. LOVELADY – Medium trotting or fast walk.
Mr. BALL – A fast walk?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?
Mr. LOVELADY – Somebody hollered and I looked.
Mr. BALL – You turned around and looked?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes. Again at no time in the Couch film is Lovelady seen looking back or responding to any hollering.

Lovelady then also destroys Vicky Adams’ testimony from a time perspective with his WC testimony, so the Commission can claim she was wrong.

It has become obvious that Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were lying while being interviewed by Joseph Ball all to mess with the timings perspective with regards Oswald and them going back to one of the rear entrances since that would also show how long it took before the building was actually secured. The TSBD  exits after the shooting resembled Swiss cheese for many minutes after the shooting.

These statements and the Warren Commission testimonies by Bill Shelly and Billy Lovelady show plenty that they did leave the steps almost immediately after the shooting and that they cannot be accounted on the steps for in the Jimmy Darnell film, besides walking westwards and being seen doing so in a better capture in the Malcolm Couch film.

 

Buell Frazier during his H.S.C.A. testimony (tape 2) is specifically asked by the interviewer when Lovelady and Shelley left the steps and to everyone’s amazement (including mine) he states that this happened before the motorcade made the turn on to to Elm St.

Subsequently he is confronted with the Altgens 6 photo which shows Lovelady standing on the steps while Kennedy is shot in the throat, so after the turn on Elm St.

Detailed crop of the HSCA version of Altgens 6 with Lovelady on the left.. Source Mary Ferrell.

 

In closing.

Shelly was Oswald’s supervisor and worked directly under Roy Truly.

Lovelady had a weapons charge dangling of which Ochus Campbell (Roy Truly’s boss) paid off the remainder of Lovelady’s fine as he was being re-arrested for non-payment.

You wonder where these men’s loyalties lie? Not with someone who only joined a month before the big event and who later on it turned out to be living in Russia for almost three years

There is quite a bit pointing to that Shelly and Lovelady left the steps to go west of the TSBD almost immediately after the shots had been fired. In fact Lovelady makes his way down the steps before Wiegman exited the car and that was before the head shot.

From the footage that is around with Lovelady in it. It shows that he was an inquisitive person as he manoeuvred himself up and down on those steps to get a better view of the limo.

 

 

Buell Wesley Frazier Part 1

Buell Wesley Frazier, has always been a major person of interest in this case, he allegedly took Lee Harvey Oswald to work that day and let him go with his ‘package’ inside the TSBD. A package not seen by Jack Dougherty when Oswald entered the building.

Charles Douglas Givens asked Buell Wesley Frazier where his rider was when he walked inside the TSBD and I am not going into depth about all that as it is widely discussed at ROKC HERE

Buell Wesley Frazier has been one of the few Texas School Book Depository employees who is alive and still talks about that day in 1963 in Dealey Plaza, Dallas Texas. In the last few years he has been more talkative than the years before when he would only go to the 6th Floor Museum or participate in a documentary doing his run one more time in an old car reenacting the ride he had with Lee Oswald that morning.

Buell Wesley Frazier was in for rough treatment from the DPD later that day after he was picked up from the hospital while visiting a sick relative and just before he was about to be arriving at home he was hauled back in. We know that Captain Will Fritz wanted him to sign a confession in being an accomplice, which he refused after Fritz raised his hand to strike at him, why this did not happen is a bit of an enigma and perhaps the Lancer 2015 Conference can give some more answers in Jan. 2016 when the transcirpt and video becomes available.

Here are 4 shots from the Richard E Sprague archive ROKC managed to scan in at NARA

Pic. credit Jim Murray

Larry Hancock made a blogpost about Buell Wesley Frazier’s appearance there, at Lancer. In the comment section at the bottom and I quote “Frazier says that he went out on the steps and was intent on looking out and down, he can identify folks in front of him such as Lovelady but he does not recall ever turning around and looking to his side or behind him so he has no direct recollection of anyone at all standing where PM appears to be located. He can’t make any identification from the photo…which is no big surprise. He also has no idea of whether that person had been there for a time or might have come out when everyone else was on the steps. I did get the impression that the steps filled up with people from the building and that it was unlikely any outsider had pushed through to the top of the steps so whoever it was somebody from inside the building.”

I find this whole scenario hard to swallow, especially when the still grab from the Jimmy Darnell film clearly shows he is looking and possibly interacting with Prayer Man, hell Prayer Man is even looking back. There is no need to deny this,the shot says so.

Prayer Man in Jimmy Darnell film

pm stan dane

 

Enter Greg Burnham, someone who forbids any discussion of Prayer Man at his forum, but has bought the ad words for it to get top ranking in Google (go figure).

He posts at the Education Forum: “David Mantik told me a few days ago that at this year’s Lancer Conference Buell Wesley Frazier denied that Oswald was anywhere near the front of the TSBD, on the steps, or was Doorman. Frazier is an eyewitness who was there, who knew Oswald, and was in a position to know if LHO was there or not. Frazier was unequivocal about it.” Again this has hardly any bearing whatsoever, why would Frazier admit to it, as that would mean that the jig was up if he admitted to it there and then. Plus why these two all of the sudden put their snouts in the Prayer Man through is questionable as well. Surely trying to grab the glory for the discovery of it all, since I cannot think otherwise as this part of the case has hardly had a mention or one iota of research by them these past few years in any way.

Jim Murray – Blackstar

Recently we managed to have some scans made of someones archive (his name shall be kept a secret for now). In his collection (that was plundered by many before us) we found a contact sheet belonging to Jim Murray of the Dallas Times Herald.

We can see Mary Moorman, Larry Florer, Charles Brehm, Ruth Dean, Madeleine Reese the cordoning off the TSBD and a peek inside a cafe. A lot of these photographs were shown first in That Day In Dallas by Richard Trask who managed to obtain the rights from Black Star Photo Agency.

The search for the Wiegman & Darnell films

This article  was orginally posted on Oct. 17 2015. It has been in part re-written, re-edited and updated in Sept. 2024.

In March 2015, Gary Mack sent a few members of the Education Forum a PM which contained some info on the Darnell & Wiegman films, I quote from the PM Darren Hastings received (third post from the top), and I quote from his post: NBC owns the original Wiegman film but when producers of JFK: Death in Dealey Plaza asked them for it 12 years ago (at my request), NBC could only locate a 1960s-era video tape of it. We wound up using, I think, a 1963/1964 theatrical newsreel version held by UCLA.

NBC took the original Wiegman and Darnell films from the Dallas NBC affiliate to New York following the assassination weekend. Whether the network still has the original Darnell film is unknown, but as a former employee I know the affiliate does not have it or a copy. Nor does Jimmy Darnell.

Fortunately, a first-generation 16mm copy print was made in Dallas over that weekend and it is in the Museum’s collection; however, the Museum cannot do anything with it until copyright issues are resolved. It’ll happen, and sooner rather than later.

Then in Sep 2015 I happen to see this NBC5 news segment from roughly two years prior, I speculate that it was because of the 50th anniversary. In this video Gary Mack, at that time the curator of the Sixth Floor Museum, visited the archives of NBC5 in East Fort Worth. Mack had a close relationship with the channel. He used to work for KXAS (as the network was named before it became NBC5), starting in 1981, according to the NYT, where part of his job was to manage and preserve the station’s film archives and its coverage of the assassination and its aftermath.

The video shows Mack of the 6th Floor Museum going into a room in a basement of NBC 5, where various boxes are standing on shelves which contain WBAP (later to become KXAS) film spools of the JFK Assassination and above all its aftermath, looking at this makes me think about all the excuses TV corporations and disinfo agents spread about the films being hard to find or ‘locked away’ when the video clearly shows that the films are just placed in a box without any serious form of preservation and identification present.

My and a handful of others’ quest has always been to find the best possible versions of the Dave Wiegman and Jimmy Darnell films. It has been challenging to say the least.

Then UNT Libraries posts a press release, which now has been removed from their website, and replaced with this page where they state that they will house the complete news archive from NBC5/KXAS (formely WBAP)  from 1950 – 2012 and that the UNT Library will digitise all this material.

Following this I contacted the UNT Library on Sept 7 2015 and conversed  with Morgan Gieringer, I asked her about the films and if there was an inventory list of them.

I quote from her reply: KXAS made a prior agreement with the 6th Floor Museum in Dallas to donate all JFK related news footage to the museum.  You will need to contact them with this inquiry.

After getting this message the first thing I did was to contact the 6th Floor Museum through Twitter and asked them if they had these films. To which I got the following reply.
twitter 6th floor museum asking where is the darnell film

I contacted MG again and asked: another email from me, just when I thought and you probably as well the matter was closed, but the funny thing is that when I asked the 6th floor museum whether they had the KXAS film collection and they denied they had any of it.

So now I have a dilemma as I have no idea now who to approach.
Do you have any documentation or links that show that the material did go to the 6th floor museum?
Do you have any type of inventory list?
To which she replied on Sep 14: Interesting…. Could you possibly give me the name of the person you spoke with at the 6th floor museum? I am working on obtaining an inventory from KXAS of the film which was transferred to the museum.
Since it was a response through Twitter it was not possible to ascertain who exactly wrote that message to me. I relayed this to her and also asked her about the inventory list.
She replied to me again that same day: I do not know how long it will take to get the inventory from KXAS. In the meantime I suggest that you email the collections curators at the museum directly. The person responding to their twitter messages may just be uninformed, or the collection may be uncatalogued, but they absolutely do have the KXAS footage.
On Oct 1st 2015 I emailed Megan Bryant and asked her about this discrepancy.

She replied on Oct 9: Our social media response that we do not have the WBAP (now KXAS) / NBC5 films in our collection here at The Sixth Floor Museum was accurate.  By now you have probably heard directly from the station, as I let them know about your inquiry.  That material is still maintained by the station and is managed by NBC Universal Archives.  It is searchable online here.

It is regrettable that you were misdirected by the UNT Library, but we have since made sure they are aware that the material in question is not in our collection.

I contacted NBC 5 as well and Sharla Alford  assistant to the News Director/Custodian of Records got back to me promptly telling me that the University Of North Texas or the 6th Floor Museum has got all the JFK Assassination related film material from KXAS.

I replied and asked her if she could provide an inventory of the films, to which I got a reply from Brain Hocker, who is the VP of programming, research and digital media at NBC5.

He forwarded me to their online archive instead containing all the video screeners that were beamed across the nation that weekend and just after. Video, exactly the low resolution is not worth the bother, as the HD documentaries that have shown snippets of these films are in a larger resolution than what was offered to me. Furthermore the Darnell film was nowhere to be seen and the Weigman film was shown 3 times, and only once did it show the front of the TSBD.

I replied asking them (Brian Hocker at NBC5 and Megan Bryant at the 6th Floor Museum) several questions:

1/The film reels are clearly shown in the NBC5 news item, as shown above, just dormant in some boxes on a shelve in the basement at NBC5 archives, so where are they now?

2/Why are they not being digitised at ENT since everything else from that period of KXAS is?

3/Where are the original Darnell and Weigman films?

4/Can we get some high resolution still scans of the 1st gen. Darnell film that is at the 6th Floor Museum?

Then in August 2024 the Sixth Floor Museum issues a press release about the Darnell film. Furthermore the museum shares the film for public viewing.

Dennis Morrisette posts at the education forum (5 posts from the bottom) that Stephen Fagin has replied to his email:  Thanks for your e-mail. We know there has been some interest in the Museum’s recent YouTube upload, and we are so pleased to be able to finally share the Darnell film online considering the researcher interest over the years. To clarify, the Museum does not have the camera original Darnell film. To our knowledge, if that film still exists, it is with NBC in New York. What we have is a print of the film that originally came to the Museum as part of the G. William Jones Collection back in 2006. Since the Museum did not have the rights from the local NBC affiliate (NBC 5 / KXAS-TV) to use the WBAP-TV footage in the Jones Collection, we were not able to do anything with the films without KXAS’s permission for specific projects. This changed only recently when NBC 5 / KXAS-TV generously donated their assassination-related footage to the Museum—and included rights to the WBAP-TV footage already in the Museum’s Jones Collection, which includes our print of the Darnell film. The late Gary Mack speculated that our copy of the Darnell film was a first-generation print of the film and shared this belief with researchers many years ago. I was twice asked about this same print of the Darnell film at JFK Lancer conferences, and I noted at that time that we could not be certain that it was a first-generation print. That is still the case. So, again, this is the same print that has been in the Museum’s possession since 2006. We simply now have the rights to share it publicly. What we put online is an excerpt from the digitization of the film, so the quality is as it appears. It is the same transfer that researchers were previously able to view by appointment in the Museum’s Reading Room.​

 

Ok so what can we ‘discover’ in that film that wasn’t in view before in earlier versions?

I managed to see Otis Wiliams still being on the steps. Something I could not see In previous Darnell versions, it was nothing more than a highlighted blurry blob. Now you can see Williams, wearing his white shirt and tie has at the time Darnell filmed the Marrion Baker run remained in the same position as he has been in the Altgens 6 photo

and the Dave Wiegman film.

 

Prayer Man Update

Stan Dane’s book is out and I am jealous, the man is a machine!!!!

Stan, it’s a fabulous piece of work and a welcome addition to  JFK Assassination research. Anyone whois interested in JFK assassination research should get this, I mean $ 9.00, it’s a steal.

Get it!!!!

PM Book Cover Stan Dane

 

Buy the Kindle edition HERE

Print editions to follow.

Prayer Man essay update

I have been roaming at forums a little too much but I managed to get quite a bit of work done.

The essay, as it stands, is 430 pages (of which a lot are docs and pix) and I reckon it will grow by another 30 odd, it’s the linking and making the puzzle understandable that is the most work.

I hope to release it end of Oct. or early Nov. then again there are a few gaps which I hope to fill, so a delay is not of the books either, will update as soon as I have something more concrete to say…..

Prayer Man EBook

Journalists Remember JFK Assassination-1993

A C-Span video from 1993 with Tom Alyea (bottom pic.), Kent Biffle, Bob Welch (also talking about Jimmy Darnell) and Tom Dillard (top pic.) present.

Watch the video HERE

Tom Dillard 1993-2 Tom Alyea-1993