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Texas School Book Depository

Living History with Karen Westbrook Scranton

Updated March 25th 2018.

Recently the 6th Floor Museum uploaded a video of Stephen Fagin’s interview with Karen Westbrook Scranton. She worked for a small publisher Southwestern Company alongside with Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks, Carol Ann Reed and Carol Hughes on the second floor office of the T.S.B.D. after she graduated from high school.

At about 07:15 it is shown that her desk inside the second floor office is in the southeast corner, meaning in the far right corner in the picture below.

Karen Westbrook’s desk was in the far right upper corner of this pic. Click to enlarge.

At 11:10 it starts to go wrong. She states that after seeing the photograph of the fake vestibule that that door was always open. The door in question was part of a unit built to keep the noise out and had a door closing attachment fixed at the top of the door, which you can see below in a picture at the top left of the door on the inside. What she refers to as the door of the lunch room is the door after that, which I am showing next in the gallery below. Plus a close-up showing that that lunch room door is open. Imagine that outer door being open all that time then Baker’s and Truly’s remarks with the door being closed and that Baker caught a glimpse through the glass of the door can be completely discounted then. Some nerdy shizzle going on here folks….. But I do not find this suspicious merely human error and it being a long time ago.

At 12:10 Stephen Fagin makes the mistake of referring to the 2nd floor lunch room as to the Domino room, the Domino room was downstairs on the first floor and not the second. It was called that way as they tended to play a lot of domino games in there. It was the labourers’ lunch room.

Then shortly after that she drops a massive bomb shell, and states that Oswald had his lunch in there in the corner by himself. So that would be the first table coming in on the right on the photo below.

Click on pic to enlarge.

That is quite a thing to say as many others said that Oswald always had his lunch in the Domino Room which was on 1st. Then also if Oswald was in the lunch room at 12:15 as stated by Carolyn Arnold in the 70’s then others could have easily confirmed that. Reid especially as she left later. Molina had lunch and could have seen him there, but he made no mention of it, nor did anyone else. It is quite possible it is true that she must have seen him on the odd occasion.

At 13:00 she mentions that Lee was always reading strange looking material. Pamphlet style material.

After that she tells about Altgens6, and confirms that it was Billy Lovelady, and that the guy was looking a bit like Lee, but it wasn’t him. “It became a terrible joke in the office.”

At 18:10 Karen Westbrook Scranton IDs herself in the Zapruder film. And also pointed out that redheaded Gloria Calvery was standing right beside her. There was no doubt in her mind. Finally an ID of Gloria Calvery! She then says that she believes the person next to Gloria Calvery is Carol Ann Reed and that is wrong. It is Stella Mae Jacob, who was a (Native) Indian.

Click to enlarge.

With this ID, it can be said that running woman in Couch and Darnell is not Gloria Calvery. Furthermore she cannot be compared with any of the women going up on the west side of the stairs in Darnell either. Gloria Calvery’s son seems to dispute that the woman with the red hair is his mum. Stephen Fegin relays this, but does not elaborate any further, nor does anyone else

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Add on March 25th.

In this film snippet, thanks to Dennis Morissette for pointing me to it, it looks like the three women in the Z film are shown crying. Todd Vaughn attributes it to Jimmy Darnell, but I have seen no evidence for this. If he did, then this kills off the notion that they went back to the T.S.B.D. rather quickly (no running woman and no woman on the steps either as claimed by others). Darnell went up the steps and filmed Roger Craig and other happenings behind the picket fence in the rail road yard first! Then he took footage, while Marilyn Siltzman was interviewed and then making his way back towards the depository. In the background you can see several people looking into the railroad yards while standing inside the pergola indicating quite some time has passed. I have no info that Darnell went back to this area specifically after the rail road yard footage. But for the benefit of the doubt let’s assume he did shoot this.

The colouring is dead wrong in comparison with the Z still btw.

If these three women are the same then Westbrook was wrong about the ID of the person standing next to Gloria Calvery. The darker skinned person is possibly Stella Mae Jacob, who describes herself as of Indian descent (in this context that means Native American). If this is true, then there is an even bigger problem with regards the timing of  their return, according to Jacob’s statement in CE1381 she did not even make it back inside the T.S.B.D. and left for home instead! That by itself is interesting with regards to the so called missing persons and the roll call by Roy Truly. There were lots of people missing, LOTS!

Back to Westbrook’s words regarding IDing the people next to her. I don’t think she misidentified Calvery as she was a/ standing next to her and b/she stated she had red hair. And if this is not Calvery but Gloria Jean Holt then she better have red hair! At this stage I have not seen any pictures of her, so it is Calvery until proven otherwise. Gloria Calvery’s son disputes the ID of Calvery by Westbrook, but Stephen Fagin does not elaborate on this any further.

 

From the women that are in that group according to their statements in CE1381 I can relay.

Gloria Little/Calvery stated she was with: Carol Reed, Karen Westbrook and Karan Hicks. After getting back in the office she made her way back down near the front entrance, but was told she could not leave.

Karan Hicks stated she was with: Gloria Calvery, Karen Westbrook and Carol Reed. After making her way back in the office, like Calvery, she made her way back down near the front entrance, but was told she could not leave.

Gloria Jean Holt was with Stella Mae Jacob and Sharron Simmons. She did not manage to get back inside the T.S.B.D. and subsequently went home.

Stella Mae Jacob was accompanied by Sharron Nelson/Simmons and Gloria Jean Holt. She also did not manage to get back inside the T.S.B.D. and subsequently went home as well.

Sharron Nelson/Simmons was with Gloria Jean Holt and Stella Mae Jacob.  She did not return to the T.S.B.D. either.

Carol Reed stated she was with Karan Hicks, Karen Westbrook and Gloria Calvery.

This then translates into the following graphic.

 

Click to enlarge.

 

We can see Stella Mae Jacob and Gloria Calvery embracing each other in the Harry Cabluck pic from the Dallas Times Herald below. You can also notice the two ladies on the right are lady 4 and 5 to the left of the Stemmons freeway sign in the Z film still.

Stella Mae Jacob and Gloria Calvery embracing in a Harry Cabluck/D.T.H. pic. From Robin Unger’s jfkassassinationgallery.com. Click to enlarge.

 

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Then at 29:17 she starts to relay the conversation she apparently had with Mrs. Robert Reid, the clerical supervisor. The most astonishing bit is she had that convo after the assassination, on the very same day, while people were locked-in the office by the police and they were milling around inside it.  Mrs Reid said Lee came in with a coke in his hand and asked “what’s all that excitement all about.”  And she answered “OMG someone shot the President.” And Karen Westbrook Scranton then says “Whether that’s true and fits in with the timeline of the story. that was Mrs Reid’s story, seeing Lee after the assassination.”   Think about it, Lee asked what the commotion was about? Mrs Reid described Lee’s manner as almost non-responsive, he had said something that she could not understand. And she said all this to everyone inside the office within an hour after the assassination? Molina could have confirmed that, but he did not, nor did anyone else. Especially Geneva Hine would not relay that, since she was alone in the office between 12:25-12:35! And she saw Reid, Stanton, Reed, Molina and others come in about 25 mins after.

At 33:40 she tells the story of Marguerite Oswald coming in and causing a scene and being removed from the building. A situation that was described by Roy Truly as well. He even said that she showed Altgens6 and claimed that it was Lee on the front page picture.

She is convinced Lee did it, and has of course taken in certain pro-Warren Commission scenarios to support that opinion. What she says is informative, but there are some mistakes and also some statements that are hard to believe.

 

Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter Update V4

Since August 2017 I came across a few more items so I decided to include these and release this new update. I am honestly not sure whether there is much left to include in this paper. I reckon time will tell. Since getting awarded by Lancer and Dealey Plaza UK this paper has doubled in size. More to read no doubt and more to bitch about by Richard Gilbride and Brian Doyle. Snooch to da mooch darlings ;)

The following has been added:

  • More info and a link to Roy Truly’s ‘deleted’ testimony video. Page 4.
  • Video link and transcript of an interview with Sylvia Meagher in which she discusses the 2nd floor lunch room encounter in depth. Added on pages 9-11.
  • Malcolm Couch still added showing Baker’s bike parked on Elm St. Page 20.
  • Detailed drawings of the TSBD front entrance. These were made by the FBI in early Dec. 1963. Pages 30 & 31. Thanks to Gary Murr.
  • More testimony and a line of text of Joe Molina added to “Who saw Baker going up the stairs” chapter, page 38.
  • Detailed drawings from the FBI on the 2nd floor of the TSBD, pages 63-64. Thanks to Gary Murr.
  • Press and Sun-Bulletin Binghamton, New York · Sun, Dec 8, 1963 article added, page 73.
  • Added Martha Reed’s affidavit in the chapter Oswald’s location during the so called 2nd floor encounter and just after, page 82.
  • Added two documents from Arch Kimbraugh’s collection with statements made by Roy Truly on the day he left for his W.C. testimony. Pages 102 and 103. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.
  • Report by Charles Batchelor in the Where did Baker and Truly go after the Encounter chapter. Pages 107-109.
  • Jack Revill’s list of all persons’ details taken upon leaving the T.S.B.D. Pages 111 and 112.
  • The Carolyn Arnold sub-chapter has been re-written in part and has a few more photos/graphics/statements/book excerpts added. Pages 124-139.
  • FBI report with the timings of the re-enactment. Pages 159-161. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

 

The paper can be viewed HERE.

The Death of Richard Gilbride’s Deluded Fantasies

The Death of Richard Gilbride’s Deluded Fantasies.

 

Richard Gilbride used to be a co-administrator at ROKC. He left the forum not just for his opposing and his dated views with regards the second floor room encounter, but he also behaved in a rather irritant and alienating manner, thinking his admin/mod status could speak for all the others of the ROKC forum.

In 2014 Richard Gilbride managed to post a few things while being at ROKC that obviously rubbed everyone else up the wrong way by moving the goalposts and also restating inexact facts and resort to made-up fairy tales. And of course like ROKC’s biggest ‘fan’ Brian Doyle he has been isolating himself further and further. A few samples…..

“The lunacy in me is in taking on the cult, the true believers, those who don’t think the lunchroom incident ever happened. Because those true believers are the true lunatics, who can’t accept concrete evidence that their hypothesis is incorrect, even with that evidence is dropped at their feet and thoroughly explained to them”  HERE

and  I find the contentions of those who say the lunchroom event didn’t happen an insult to my intelligence. What I am insulting is their reasoning power, regarding this particular facet of November 22nd- because as far as this incident goes, they have taken leave of their senses. “They” meaning Sean Murphy, Greg Parker, Lee Farley, and those who actively promote this school of thought. What they promulgate is an insult to my better judgement, and many other peoples’ better judgement. It should be an insult to their better judgement.  HERE

Almost four years later nothing has changed. You will see while reading on.

Since leaving ROKC in 2014 he has had a huge chip on his shoulder about ROKC research. Once in a blue moon he starts to appear on a forum and spews his gal, which does not hold any ground whatsoever. It only appears in Gilbride’s mind. Brian Doyle and his Prayer Woman beliefs fall in the exact same category, the category of being deluded and in deep denial only believing their own ‘truth’.

A year ago Richard Gilbride was still a member at the Education forum, but the disgusting post below got him his membership revoked, like the troll Brian Doyle who posted so much drivel he became the laughing stock of the JFK Research Community. Leaving Gilbride only the half decent Deep Politics Forum to vent. I don’t count the JFK Assassination forum run by disinfo clown Duncan MacRae as a proper forum. One has to ask themselves why these deluded individuals keep at this while at the same time their memberships are being revoked. It certainly doesn’t speak well for their argumentation overall, but in this case why don’t we let his ‘writings’ speak for himself and you the readers/researchers can make up their own mind.

No matter how strong the evidence is, it will be denied purely due to the fact that it comes from us at ROKC. I have very little time for flat earthers, climate change and holocaust deniers and these two people are from the same pack. Doyle and Gilbride are also technically inept to such an extend that mouthing off without providing any proof is their only weapon. Oh we at ROKC mouth off big time, but that is after presenting the proof in abundance after which we are  being lied to by these fantasists. Then of course we will address your shit.

Gilbride first two essays on the second floor lunch room encounter are filled to the brim with unsupported innuendo, made-up ‘evidence and have been demolished by various researchers (including yours truly). In 2014 at ROKC and later at the Education Forum in 2015/2016. And with his third ‘essay’ (90 pages too long) it is even worse. About half of it is used to attack me and my work and the other half is again just opinionated and unsubstantiated drivel which is nothing but a repeat from his dreadful fairy tale ‘research’ that is more than 4 years old. And only this once he gets the special treatment (a blog post) from me. I cannot be bothered otherwise since his crap does not deserve anyone’s attention.

When he made a forum post entitled “Death Of A Lunch Room Hoax” at the Deep Politics Forum earlier in Feb.,  he got rebutted by Jim DiEugenio, David Josephs and Alan Ford with great ease already. But why stop there……I want my slide of the cake as well. So here we go.

Good Stuff.

It seems that I made some typos regarding the dates of the SS report(s) concerning Mrs Robert Reid. I also forgot to add one page of these reports to my paper which resulted in me erroneously claiming she made no mention of the coke in that statement. That was wrong and I have corrected that. One thing that needs to be added is that the Secret Service Reports from early Dec. 1963 are to be treated with the utmost suspicion, some of the T.S.B.D. worker’s testimonies in those reports were contradicting their very first statements to the D.P.D. and the F.B.I.

I also erroneously ascribed a radio message to Jesse Curry whereas that should have been Bill Decker instead. I corrected that as well.

These correction will be in the V.4 update of Anatomy Of The Second Lunch Room Encounter out early March.

And that is it mistake-wise from all the 90 pages, now then y’all best strap in as the person who has never before attempted to look and research all the evidence before and relied way too much on his own innuendo for three essays on the same subject matter is about to get a serious kicking. Of course he himself will deny this up to the hilt.

Bad stuff.

The introduction by itself is a very weak start, instead of sticking to the point he drifts off already and drags in historical quotes which have no bearing on this case whatsoever. Gilbride tries to show of his intellect, not that it works as you will see further on where he makes some really dumb mistakes which are only made because of his blindness created by his hatred for ROKC and my work.  These first few pages are pure filler. Anyone can bang together a few historic quotes and massage the whole thing together. Gilbride should have included a few of these, it would have been more fitting to his work overall.

Then we arrive at Prayer Man, Gilbride feels the need to drag this part of the enigma into this document for a large part spread all over it. I myself make brief mention of it in the Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter paper I made. In this chapter it is already going horribly wrong, nothing new as the majority of this has been already posted more than two to four years ago at the Education Forum and back then it was torn to bits, not just by me but pretty much any member there in that thread. Gilbride’s so called photogrammetry calculations amount to junk science and like Brian Doyle he talks the talk trying to make everyone believe that they are the experts who know how to do this, but the reality is quite the opposite, drawing a few lines on a 2d photograph amounts to bugger all, a small child can do this.

He provides no info as to what camera/lens was used by both camera men (Darnell and Wiegman), there is no way to determine the exact spot of both camera men and their distance to the front steps of the TSBD, one can only guess. It is flawed from the word get go, but this was already relayed to him two years ago on the Education Forum, but Gilbride isn’t listening let alone researching just rehashing the same old fairy tale.

Nor does anyone know  whether Prayer Man stood on the top of the landing or one step down. I speculate he is one step down due to his stance, and the way the steps go wider. And also due to the size of Shelley/Frazier on the landing and Lovelady who stood on a lower step. There is no way of ascertaining by sight whether Prayer Man stood on the landing or one step down from either film. The height analysis is pure conjecture, there is zero and I repeat zero evidence to back up Doyle’s and Gilbride ‘s claims. His calculations are sucked out of his thumb and presented as gospel.

Gilbride states that Lovelady stood on the top step. If there is one thing abundantly clear in Wiegman it is that Lovelady is standing one step lower below Shelley and Frazier and is leaning against the railing. This cannot be done while standing on the top step. Take a look at the photographs below. Now pretend to stand on the landing and imagine leaning against that railing….bit difficult to do that no? Also look how close he is to Williams who stood one or even two steps down. No way could he have stood that close to him if he were standing on the landing. And also consider that Lovelady stood behind Carl Jones as you can see in the Hughes film and as the motorcade made its way down Elm he moved slightly to the right and up the steps. Not the landing where Shelley, Frazier, Sanders and Stanton were already standing. Lovelady had a curious mind and when the shots rang out he left those steps immediately with Shelley. Lovelady can be seen lowering on the steps in Wiegman as well.

Doyle tried to lie himself out of it and it never worked, and it doesn’t work this time for Gilbride either. Major fail on Gilbride’s part of repeating this debunked rubbish.

Click to enlarge

 

On Page 7 it gets “better”, Gilbride brings in the pix used by Brian Doyle for his Prayer Woman malarky. The buttons argument was debunked by me more than a year ago. These are not buttons they are artefacts from a transfer from tape to digital, as simple as that. I wrote two articles nailing Doyle and his lies to the cross. Gilbride pretends like his nose is bleeding and present this horse shit afresh…..you’d think he would be joking but he isn’t.

The Death Of Prayer Woman Part 1. and The Death Of Prayer Woman Part 2 deal with this BS in good detail. In case you were wondering where his latest essay’s title comes from, look no further.

In the very first article it was shown that Craig Lamson and Duncan MacRae faked the detail of the Darnell image which shows Prayer Man/Lee Oswald. Gilbride is using this image and on the same page of that article is also a photograph which shows the “buttons”, those buttons which appear all over the actual image. These buttons in correlation with the actual size of the image would be massive in real life. David Josephs brings a coherent argument forward at the Education Forum about this.

Here let me show you again in a very simple way and you can see they are all over the image. Buttons = fairy tale. Prayer Woman died a long time ago already. But like McAdams would do many years ago, even when debunked they still have a go at presenting this again at a later date. This is pure trolling.

Neither Doyle, MacRae and Gilbride possess any photography skills let alone be able to edit/manipulate/enhance/post the images. Recently Gilbride, already being a member at DPF for quite some time, had to ask the DPF members to show him how to post pix at that forum.  Gilbride’s photo analytical qualities come into question again later on.

In short the entire hooey from pages 3-9 is to be avoided purely for the bad research being done and repeating already debunked stories. if you do not think I make a point then just have a look at the replies Jim DiEugenio and David Joseph gave to Richard Gilbride with regards this BS. Another major fail on Gilbride’s account for adopting the sheer garbage produced by Brian Doyle, Duncan MacRae and Craig Lamson. When I asked Lamson, Doyle and MacRae for the EXIF data, and not meta data Doyle, they refused to pass it on as it would have shown heavy manipulation from their part. Instead the cowardly fakers ran away.

Then he asserts running woman is Gloria Calvery, there is absolutely nothing to support this, not even BWF’s statement. Since he brings this in connection with Shelley and Lovelady who had already departed. Shelley and Lovelady lied about their stay on the steps for 3-4 minutes during their WC testimony. It would have invalidated the W.C. fairy tale of  2nd floor lunch room encounter and Oswald’s departure there and then, as everyone would have seen Oswald leaving the TSBD. It is impossible that this happened. Calvery to this day has not been IDed in Dealey Plaza on that day no matter how hard people try. In Shelley’s first statement, before Oswald was marched in or let us even assume he gave that statement during it. He stated that he saw Gloria Calvery after he had left the steps. There is no interaction between Shelley and Lovelady and running woman at all.  It is pure guesswork. But it would have been a lot better if both these clowns actually paid attention to the very little info that is available of Gloria Calvery. In CE1381 she states. “After President Kennedy was shot, I returned to my office. I stayed there a short time then returned to the front entrance of the building. I remained there only two or three minutes and then came back to my office. I left my office for the day at about 1:30 PM and went home.” There is absolutely nothing about her running back, she went inside and up to her office and then came back down.

The drab is continued with Harry Dean Holmes’ affidavit and WC testimony, if anyone gave the game away on Oswald’s alibi it was H.D.H., he was not part of the boys club inside the DPD and surely did not get the memo to keep his mouth shut and not to volunteer any info. Holmes himself is also questionable for the fact that not one person could take responsibility handing the rifle to Oswald, as it supposedly had come through his office. The rifle that never existed in Oswald’s inventory, but that is a whole different story btw.

Gilbride refers to a 4 page memo from Dec 17th, which was his report from Nov. 24th. What Gilbride does not realise is that there is a 8 pager as well.  My position on Holmes’ testimony is quite clear in my paper, Gilbride thinks different due to his interpretation, which no one else but another research apologist by the name of Larry R. Trotter agrees with. Alan Ford demolishes that interpretation as well at DPF. Click and see for yourself. But why do I not paste part of Holmes’ WC testimony below.

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?
Mr.HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

As simple as that Gilbride’s wishful fairy tales are torn up again. So the first 12 pages are completely worthless and why should we stop there. On page 13 the THE WILL-CALL COUNTER BUMP chapter is put forward. Since I have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that both Truly and Baker never went in as fast as they claimed this chapter can also be dismissed. The 13 points of concurrence are also utterly worthless, David Josephs takes care of this already (post #2), no need for me to add anything.  So that is 15 pages that can be skipped due to the terrible work put forward by Richard Gilbride.

And it is getting worse, let me quote from page 19.

“Yet no other document even loosely correlates the existence of a “3rd or 4th floor” man, and do not wait up nights hoping that something supportive will turn up among the documents-yet-to-be-released. The chances are nil. “3rd or 4th floor” man has been utterly useless as a tool to help decipher what went on, just after the assassination, inside the Texas School Book Depository. All we can infer is- if he ever existed at all- he vanished into thin air. This empty result adds nothing contributory to the crime scene investigation, certainly nothing better than what the commonly-held assertion gives us- that Baker was simply confused about the TSBD floor layout when he composed his affidavit.” 

Ah yes Baker was just so confused, he went up two short flights of stairs and was already confused about what floor he was on, sure…… Had Baker thought that the shipping dept. on the first floor was the ground floor then he would have mistaken the 2nd floor for the 1st and not 3rd or 4th, but Gilbride wants everyone to believe that Baker’s first affidavit has no real meaning yet it is paramount in showing that there was no second floor lunch room encounter at all. That document by itself is a major cliff hanger. Gilbride keeps pushing this terrible scenario again and again, and this was also debunked at the Education forum as utter hogwash.

On page 21 he cannot believe the amount of people that are supposedly involved with this encounter lie, what Gilbride omits is that

1/ there is no mention of a second floor encounter on the 22nd, the first public outing is at around lunch time on the 23rd (almost 24 hrs after Oswald’s arrest) and

2/ that quite a few statements are taken on the 24th after Oswald has been given a set of wings…….. Gilbride thinks that by not presenting the evidence in the right context and dragging in philosophy makes his argument stand tall, the opposite is more true.

So far up to this point of this ‘essay’ everything mentioned can be skipped, it offers very little or no value at all, it solely contains Richard Gilbride’s personal innuendo.

The Stroud Document is also equally dismissed with again Gilbride’s apologising for how Adams and Styles could not have seen Baker and Truly while coming down swiftly wearing high heels on creaky wooden stairs. Truly allegedly heard Baker talking while the door was closed, but neither of them were hearing Adams and Styles clacking with their heels and making their way down those stairs. Dorothy Garner heard them descending while out of sight to her. An absolute stinker of an excuse. The ladies were already outside before Baker and Truly even attempted to go in and up. As simple as that. Gilbride ought to he ashamed producing this type of dross.

The arrows showing the alleged route on the 1st floor diagram are wrong, as per testimony they went diagonally through the shipping dept.

On page 25 Gilbride claims “Baker first caught a glimpse of Oswald somewhere between 50-60 seconds after the head shots.” Oh really? And the evidence for that is where exactly? Ah yes only in Gilbride’s head……that glimpse that got no mention until a few days before his W.C. testimony…. The timing aspect was a mess from day one, but Richard Gilbride and his fairy tales make matters a lot worse.

On the same page he claims “The November 27th Secret Service re-enactment film, at the 23 ½ minute mark, shows it closing unaided in only 1.8 seconds.”

See for yourself that this is rubbish, the film below (starts at the point of opening the door) and Barry Ernest’s testing in 1968 (3 seconds) shows it took longer that 1.8 seconds. Baker who only followed him by a few feet managed to open the door and have it closed in a few seconds and stop Oswald while Truly was just a few feet ahead and was on the 2nd or 3rd step up the stairs towards the 3rd floor. Pull the other one sunshine!

Gilbride again wants to apologise for the Baker and Truly encounter which never happened in the first place.

 

On page 26 Gilbride shows the Gary Murr drawing I put forward with my paper (he borrows a lot of graphics from my piece without properly crediting anyone!) and names it the vestibule.

Vestibule: a passage, hall, or antechamber between the outer door and the interior parts of a house or building.

On that same page he slanders Sean Murphy again without providing any linkage to it. Insiders know that Murphy got in contact with Sandra Styles and got some contradictory statements compared to what Barry Ernest presented in his book The Girl On The Stairs. There was some debate about this, but nothing like Gilbride dares to present, he is economical with the truth again. Gilbride’s hatred for Sean Murphy is more than evident. He acts like a sore loser who was outgunned and above all outclassed years ago.

Pages 27-30 are about the filmed interviews, the B&W ones for CBS and the biggest turd known to mankind The Trial Of LHO, held in London during the 70’s. Defence council Spence looks so weak with his questioning it is utterly laughable. The witnesses have all been instructed and coached by Vince Bugliosi (another filthy denier….) what to say. A fab example is Harold Norman’s testimony, just count the times how many times he glances towards Bugliosi when questioning becomes a tad tough. With the CBS interviews it isn’t much better. Jim DiEugenio and Jerry Policoff wrote excellent articles on how CBS conducted itself with these interviews and the JFK Assassination overall.

So that is 30 pages without anything of real value, my suggestion: skip the lot!

Pages 31-40 are about Baker’s first statement, his FBI statement from Sept. 1964 and so on.

Again Gilbride makes a few serious mistakes.

1/ If we are to believe that Baker and Truly raced up those stairs then how comes there were several people inside the lobby? We know that Roy Edward Lewis was inside the vestibule and that Otis Williams had left the steps to go inside up too the 4th floor (yup using those same wooden stairs…). Other than that everyone was still outside. That by itself already indicates a much later arrival than has been presented.

2/ Then Richard Gilbride dismisses all newspaper reports for being brought up by overexcited newspaper reporters hungry for details, and even remembered incorrectly by the protagonists. This is how he classes journalism. You think that is a bad case of generalising then wait a little for another nugget further down.

3/ Gilbride digs into Baker’s first statement while padding himself on the back for doing, superfluous, research while complaining the Murphyites don’t do this, first of all the derogatory word has no impact and he ought to know that this started decades before Sean Murphy got involved and I personally have taken it much much further than a any forum poster. Of course we not do superfluous research. It’s a complete waste of time and proves nothing nor does it debunk anything what has already been questioned before. (pages 31/39).

This is going from bad to worse for Richard Gilbride since all of these 39 pages fall completely flat from a research p.o.v. It is only HIS opinion, and we all know the saying when it comes to opinions…..

Then we finally reach the real juice: “Anatomy Of A Cherry Picker” and with that he means me and my paper. Thank you Richard, I looked through all the available evidence.  Something he failed to do with his two earlier essays which resembled Swiss cheese. One could pick holes in these two bodies of work and conclude that they were rightfully ignored by the overwhelming majority of the JFK research community. for all these years. And only after my paper was released and awarded  by Lancer and DPUK , combined with that huge chip on his shoulder did he get his finger out and produced this (s)hit piece.

Before I utterly destroy this typed up excrement on the second half of his ‘essay’ I should mention that it was my sole intention to collect everything available about this so called encounter to present a bigger picture. One thing that stood out were the huge amount of contradictions in statements, testimonies and newspaper reports. Which requires a lot more than your mundane explanation Richard!

He starts of with that I failed to address my counter-arguments against the lunchroom hoax hypothesis at the Education Forum, this is a lie, his dated beliefs were argued against at The Education Forum two years back. As a matter of fact his points were nullified by not just me, but also others.

See this thread at The Education Forum.  Greg Parker on page 8 of that thread summed it up nicely then, and it is even more than applicable now.

“Fact: Baker wrote 3rd or 4th floor. Your opinion is that he was confused

Fact: Baker described a 165 pound 30 year old wearing a light tan jacket. Your opinion is that he was mistaken

Fact: Oswald allegedly claimed to buy one coke: your opinion is that he bought two.

Fact: Mrs. Reid stated Oswald wore a white t-shirt. Your opinion is she was mistaken

Fact: The re-enactments were done over and over again until they could make the timing work. Your opinion is that they was done over and over to “refresh” Baker’s memory

Fact: The will-call counter “bump” is a change to the original story given which was that Truly was already inside. Your opinion that it was just additional information is an opinion you’re entitled to. You are also entitled to the opinion that there is no elephant in the room.

It’s always instructive when someone whose opinions are not attracting any support of note, will start claiming that the support of other positions is merely due to sycophancy. Ouch-B.K.

As Terry (Martin-B.K.) said, people have long smelled something foul regarding the 2nd floor encounter. You are so tied up in trying to extract some sort of revenge, that you are actually falling back on Warren Commission apologist type arguments. Not bad coming from someone who believes the MJ12 garbage was what got Kennedy killed.”

Terry Martin and Ed Ledoux post excellent rebuttals and I myself have made a few posts, see for yourself and especially look at Page 16.

In this so called essay of his he writes“Kamp could not provide any substantive answers to my complaints.” Nothing more than a terrible lie, click on the link and check that page and the following ones out and see for yourself and you can conclude that Richard Gilbride is lying. When a ‘researcher’ has to resort to lying then I am more or less done communicating with them in any shape or form, I only make an exception here since there are 50 odd pages attacking me and the work I have produced.

Then Gilbride’s assumptions get the better of him and he fails in a rather spectacular fashion while addressing Truly’s deleted testimony. In the Sept 2017 release of my paper (V.3) I said that we tried to get hold of it and also wondered why the testimony was withheld, nothing else. Gilbride on the other hand scribbles down a fairy tale even Hans Christian Anderson would be jealous of. In the end this deleted testimony was nothing else than someone else reciting his testimony, there was nothing deleted about it all. For that the “blame” lies with either NARA or the WC. You will see in the V.4 update.

Then he questions why I wondered why Baker had not called the observation of a possible shooter in, which anyone with half a grain of common sense would wonder aloud since that would be proper police procedure no? Not according to Dick Gilbride……  My second question was why Baker did not seal off the building, I should have asked why did he not seal the front entrance and call others in? What cop goes inside a building with a gun man still inside on his own when several buddies are about ‘dancing’ behind the picket fence and the rail road yards. Baker was no Rambo, far from it.

We now know that Baker was standing between the TSBD and the Dal Tex building as became apparent during his WC testimony (and was eventually led to saying it was the TSBD) plus the Darnell film shows Baker veering to the right.

Then he posts two newspaper articles from Nov 24th and 25th which have no bearing since the lunch room encounter did not publicly exist until Nov 23rd around lunch time. And a ten year old child could come up with a handful more of those articles from after the 23rd repeating the fakery created by the D.P.D.

Gilbride then continues to attack every single piece concerning this case and cherry picks his way through it all, what he fails to realise (not a first…) is that I post everything that is available! Gilbride calls that a blunder and even starts stating the bloody obvious.  I post all matters whether it supports my conclusions or not, but again his anger and his blindness prevents him from seeing that massive lump of wood swinging in front of his eyes, like the first two essays this third  essay is becoming an utter joke and I wonder why I bother refuting this worthless crap and I am only halfway this shitty hit piece!

And it goes on and on in Gilbride’s minuscule world. So instead of wasting more time, I will post a few more utter rubbish remarks. I have work to do besides tearing Gilbride’s essay a new one so I am going to be a tad more selective.

Page 48. Does he realize that Sean Murphy would be acclaimed in Ireland if there was even a remote chance that his theory was true? But it’s a clunker, and he quit the research community because he can’t handle failure. Gilbride has no knowledge or evidence for this, again his grudge against Sean Murphy takes the upper hand and spite takes the upper hand.

Page 49. Gilbride is reaching big time as to Brennan’s encounter with Truly in Roy Bode’s interview and screws up so bad it had me rolling with laughter as he himself directly refutes that so called super fast entry by Baker and Truly. “The truth was that Brennan didn’t leave his wall perch until nearly 2 ½ minutes after the shooting.”  

Page 50 Truly tried to account himself in bravery and knew full well he was taking large liberties with the facts for this 16-year-old reporter. Pure fiction! Gilbride deals with these matters, as they only exist in his head and nowhere else.

Page 52 He positions Roy Lewis outside instead of behind the glass, and uses Larry Rivera’s 2016 conference for this as evidence. I suggest you check that talk out, it is so wrong and badly put together that you will not thank me for wasting your time.

Page 53 He denies that Holmes was referring to the vestibule on the first floor, again scroll up and see what Holmes’ testimony says.

 

Page 69 contains a photographic still from the Cook film and this image shows Carolyn Arnold and two other ladies, whose ID has not been established at all. They are not Reid and Adams. This wishful rubbish was posted at the Duncan MacRae disinfo forum and never shown to have any substance to it whatsoever. I know as I worked on this with Linda Giovanna Zambanini. This is good research? He also lambasts me for not using footnotes, anyone else can see the interactive links to documents/pix and videos and besides plenty of material is inserted. That I overlooked one page of an affidavit is for Gilbride to have a go at me, yet his own footnotes are rubbish to use. What layman could possible use the non interactive notes at the bottom nor is there any further reference where to go to check up on his claims. Pot…kettle….geddit?

On page 70 he fantasises (“most probably” HA) about Oswald using the corridor instead of taking the alleged route through the second floor office which supposedly happened after the fake encounter in the lunch room, you couldn’t make this crap up but Richard Gilbride just does. Gilbride further claims that “Shelley- even though he denied this- had seen Oswald leave the building via the front landing.” and refers to his own essay to this as a footnote. How corrupted is this? Very, since there is no evidence Shelley saw him leave again this is just in Gilbride’s mind. Oswald said that he spoke with Shelley and asked if he could leave since no further work was going to be done that day. Shelley denied this. Even though this happened there is nothing that points that Shelley actually saw Oswald leave via the front entrance or even stood there after the assassination, Shelley was busy assisting the law enforcement officers in the building and not standing on the front steps another mistake by Gilbride. Billy Lovelady did see him leave after Oswald was stopped at the front door and Truly had vouched for him.

It’s getting boring, I know as I have to plough through this tripe!

Again, on page 71, he brings up Holmes’ testimony and tries to twist and turn it into his favour, yet fails again.

Pages 72-74 deal with Kent Biffle and him overhearing what Truly had said and pretends that the NYHT article quoting Ochus Campbell are coming from the same source, this is nothing short of misleading, a damn lie! He produces no evidence to back this up besides his deluded dream-like scenario. A very dirty game is being played here by Gilbride and it doesn’t work. And it goes on about the other newspaper reports using the same deplorable tactic and generalising that newspaper reports overall are inaccurate and lead to Chinese whispers, if you ask me Gilbride has had a hefty dose of them himself.

Carolyn Arnold is next on pages 76-78, and Gilbride’s presumptions are dead wrong. I will let the reader decide about this since I have rewritten that chapter for the V4 of the Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter paper, and he could not have read it by the time he wrote this  and it is even more detrimental to Carolyn Arnold’s statements. You will see soon for yourself.

Then we move to Oswald’s alibi at the bottom of page 78. Pay attention to the following: “He lied because he needed to protect his assignment to the 2nd-floor lunchroom. He did not want even to begin to expose the plot he had participated in. He knew full well that the 6th floor of the Depository was a key sniping position in the ambush of Kennedy. Saying he was on the ground floor at the time would buffer him from any suggestion that he was anywhere near being “upstairs in the building.”  Is there any evidence available besides Gilbride’s delusions and lies? Of course not. Utter bunk!

Gilbride asserts that Fritz took notes only when Bookhout arrived, but there is no evidence for this and on top of that the notes are not contemporary (he speaks of ‘the deceased’) and in my second paper Anatomy Of LHO’s Interrogations I bring plenty of evidence that Fritz took no notes at that time! It looks like Jim Hosty was the only one taking some notes at that interrogation. He then starts to misinterpret the notes to such an effect that I start to wonder whether Gilbride actually has studied the material carefully. Bookhout’s and Hosty’s joint report clearly states: “claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. OSWALD claimed to be on the first floor when President JOHN F. KENNEDY passed this building. After hearing what had happened, he said that because of all the confusion there would be no work performed that afternoon so he decided to go home.” Bookhout’s solo report after Oswald was snuffed was a complete joke and made to fix Oswald as the solo killer of the President and encountered by Baker/Truly. There are some questionable bits that they directly contradict his first joint report. I point all this out in my paper.

Then at the bottom of page 81 (almost there thank fuck) he has the audacity to say “But what Bart forgets is that Shelley returned to the landing in time to vouch to Officer Welcome Barnett that Oswald was all right, that he worked there.” This is another lie, Shelley was nowhere to be seen outside from his return from the rail road yards until leaving the TSBD at about 13:30 and seen escorting Garcia and Williams to the police car. Shelley was busy helping the law inside the building, as per his statement. And Barnett was not checking people, according to De. Chief Lumpkin it was Eric Kaminski.

Then this “essay” descends into deeper chaos by going into the bus ride, the bus ride by itself has been disproved by Ed Ledoux who has turned this fake story into mincemeat, enough already.

Page 86 contains the following whopper: “Any newspaper reader is fully aware that any article potentially contains misinformation, from the journalist or the interviewee. It is only an adjunct source for arriving at the historical truth- particularly in this instance when there are so many other sources of information available. And in this case the newspapers contained actual disinformation.” For a second I thought Gilbride meant his own writing as it is so succinctly described here, but no all newspaper reports potentially contain misinformation.”  Can this essay be any more shit?

From thereon this ”essay” descends deeper into the abyss with Richard Gilbride’s conclusions. I think I have spent enough time laying out the mistakes, the lies and the make believe scenarios by him that I cannot stomach this piece any longer.

Among all (former) ROKC staffers there is a broad consensus that the second floor lunch room encounter did not happen, but we disagree on some of the details. Merely due to lack of additional info but what Gilbride puts forward we and other people who are not members of ROKC unanimously agree that he is nothing more than a sore loser, stuck in beliefs that can only be maintained with innuendo and lies. Richard Gilbride is a bully and a fraud of which John McAdams could only be most proud of. His hit piece misses on every occasion, but a couple of mistakes for which I am thankful for as he took the time to go through it all. But he could have saved himself a lot of time writing his third essay since the whole thing could have been dealt with less than half a page of A4.

Enough already.

 

All memes by: Stan Dane.

Oswald DPD Corridor Wade Press Conference Beckley and the TSBD all by Jim Murray.

This is an interesting set by Jim Murray. First we have Oswald being led down the corridor, then we see him on his way to a line up. Then three shots of Wade’s press conference, and then Murray must have gotten up early on the 23rd and started shooting the T.S.B.D. from all possible angles. The Hertz sign displays a time of 7:43 am. And two shots of the Beckley residence.

All photos Jim Murray BlackStar. All scans by ROKC of the Richard E. Sprague archive at the National Archives in Wa.

 

The roll call inside the TSBD never happened.

Let’s begin with Roy Truly’s testimony where he sheds light on what was done about this just after the shooting.

He tells a scenario that Fritz was notified of Oswald being missing around 1 PM.  Had that been the case the APB going out would have been a lot more specific than the generic message of

Attention all squads, the suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is supposed to be an unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle, – repeat, unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build. No further description at this time or information, 12:45 p.m.

Had Truly known about this at 1 PM then it would have been broadcast as such.

MR. TRULY. So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there. First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell–I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.
Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?
Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, “Have you seen him around lately,” and he said no.
So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, “I have a boy over here missing. I don’t know whether to report it or not.” Because I had another one or two out then. I didn’t know whether they were all there or not. He said, “What do you think”? And I got to thinking. He said, “Well, we better do it anyway.” It was so quick after that.
So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy’s name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have any address for him in Dallas, or did you just have an address in Irving?
Mr. TRULY. Just the address in Irving. I knew nothing of this Dallas address. I didn’t know he was living away from his family.
Mr. BELIN. Now, would that be the address and the description as shown on this application, Exhibit 496?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Why didn’t you ask for any other employees?
Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after you got that information?
Mr. TRULY. Chief Lumpkin of the Dallas Police Department was standing a few feet from me. I told Chief Lumpkin that I had a boy missing over here “I don’t know whether it amounts to anything or not.” And I gave him his description. And he says, “Just a moment. We will go tell Captain Fritz.”
Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened?
Mr. TRULY. So Chief Lumpkin had several officers there that he was talking to, and I assumed that he gave him some instructions of some nature I didn’t hear it. And then he turned to me and says, “Now we will go upstairs”.
So we got on one of the elevators, I don’t know which, and rode up to the sixth floor. I didn’t know Captain Fritz was on the sixth floor. And he was over in the northwest corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. By the stairs there?
Mr. TRULY. Yes; by the stairs.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. TRULY. And there were other officers with him. Chief Lumpkin stepped over and told Captain Fritz that I had something that I wanted to tell him.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened
Mr. TRULY. So Captain Fritz left the men he was with and walked over about 8 or 10 feet and said, “What is it, Mr. Truly,” or words to that effect.
And I told him about this boy missing and gave him his address and telephone number and general description. And he says, “Thank you, Mr. Truly. We will take care of it.
And I went back downstairs in a few minutes.
There was a reporter followed me away from that spot, and asked me who Oswald was. I told the reporter, “You must have ears like a bird, or something. I don’t want to say anything about a boy I don’t know anything about. This is a terrible thing.” Or words to that effect.
I said, “Don’t bother me. Don’t mention the name. Let’s find something out.”
So I went back downstairs with Chief Lumpkin.
Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn’t.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. That I can’t answer. I don’t remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases. It could have been at the time I went up and told them about Lee Harvey Oswald being missing. I cannot remember. But I didn’t know it. I didn’t see them find them, and I didn’t know at the time I don’t know how long they had the things.
And what the hell was Truly doing in the sniper’s next before they found the shells and the rifle??? Alan Ford already made mention of this at The Deep Politics Forum

Shelley is gone to City Hall and he is there for a good few hours and I reckon he left with some of the 6th floor workers. Garcia and Williams, get treated right by the cops.

He sees Oswald being paraded in by the DPD and remarks that ‘he’ works at the TSBD and he is his mgr. Shelley’s statements are taken by Det. C.W. Brown who makes mention of this in his report.

C.W. Brown on the third floor corridor just outside the Robbery and Homicide office where Oswald has just been transferred to and can be overheard demanding “Hygienic Rights” Nov 23 1963. Screen grab B.K.

Report on officer’s duties in regards the President’s Murder- C.W. Brown.

In the video below Billy Lovelady is sitting while Oswald is being led past him into another room

What he does not do is point him out as the man missing at 1 PM before he left.  Now why not as that would have sealed the deal. Same as Marrion Baker’s supposedly IDing Oswald as the man he stopped when nothing can be produced to confirm this, not even Marvin Johnson BS report can. Baker would have been inside Fritz’s office there and then confirming him as the man he apprehended.

Shelley confers with Truly  upon his return and brings back the news that Oswald is brought in for killing a cop.
Add on that that same afternoon Oswald’s commie credentials were broadcast all over.
Then there is the whole matter of the missing employees. Most people who are researching this will name Charles Douglas Givens who was absent for a while and Shelley said that they were going to send out an APB, but he just happened to return in time.
This does not rhyme with the Revill List at at all. There are many more employees missing.
What we can see from this list is that:
  • Oswald is mentioned on the top of it. Which lends more credence to the slighting by Roger Craig and other witnesses seeing a person resembling Oswald running down the grassy slope and getting into a Nash Rambelr.
  • Shelley’s name is nowhere to be seen. His departure and return are not recorded at all.
And here comes the hammer the following people all left at 12:15. But this list shows that:
  • Lloyd Viles arrived back at 3:10 PM.
  • Virgie Rackley, Dolores Kounas and Mrs  William Parker all returning at 2:55 PM.
Virgie Rackley returning at just before 3 PM and seen here talking to Kent Biffle inside the TSBD. Had Biffle known then his questioning and reporting would have been different.

Virgie Rachley being interviewed by Kent Biffle

But Biffle did say something about all this in 1982 in the Dallas Morning News.
. . . only two of us [reporters] had arrived at the ambush building [ the Depository] by this point. . . . Getting in was no problem. I just hid my press badge . . . and went in with the first wave of cops. . . . Hours dragged by. The building superintendent showed up with some papers in his hand. I listened as he told detectives about Lee Oswald failing to show up at a roll call. My impression is that there was an earlier roll call that had been inconclusive because several employees were missing. This time, however all were accounted for except Oswald. I jotted down the Oswald information. . . . Neither the police in the building nor the superintendent knew that Oswald already was under arrest. Oswald’s name was not called out until after 3 PM!
Then you can add the Martin film as evidence as well. This film was supposedly shot between 12:50 and 13:00. This film shows Lovelady, Williams and Garcia outside waiting on the steps to get in.
Now then if the roll call is bogus then Will Fritz went to City Hall to check upon a suspect brought in for the Tippit Killing, nothing more. The rest is pure fairy tales made up after the fact. Plus Truly and Shelley were covering their rears for letting him go 15 minutes after the assassination.
Any questions?
Additional research by Ed Ledoux, Greg Parker and Donald Willis.

TSBD drawings-3rd-7th floor

Final set for now, thanks again to Gary Murr for these.

These are drawings of the 3rd to the 7th floor, there is a page with measurements of the front steps and the pavement and a page with notes on the TSBD building’s height in comparison to the DalTex building and The Records Building.

All these drawings shed more light about the TSBD dimensions, way more than the WR versions.