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interrogations of lee harvey oswald

Important to Hold That Man by Jerry D. Rose May 1986

Important to Hold That Man by Jerry D. Rose May 1986

 

Once in a blue moon you come across a great article. From The Third Decade; a magazine that has published some of the finest articles in JFK Assassination research. This article below by publisher Jerry D. Rose is no exception. And the reason for me to bring this up is because it falls nicely inside my remit but it is also a great way to compare it with my own work. And Rose does a terrific job. The parts where Truly had stated to the WC he had not seen Oswald after the assassination which of course makes no sense when the second floor lunch room encounter allegedly happened within 90 seconds after the shots had been fired. Rose’s remarks following up on Bill Shelley stating to Roy Truly that he did not see Lee Oswald are simply priceless.

Fritz’s movements and actions from the T.S.B.D. and to the D.P.D. are thoroughly questioned, but his pit stop at Bill Decker’s office is sadly missing from those paragraphs. All this makes Will Fritz look even more suspicious

Oswald being paraded past his fellow employees had more of an effect than Rose describes. He notes discrepancies from a procedural p.o.v. But add on that those fellow employees were told that Oswald had killed a cop at that time which of course meant that these people were distancing themselves from Oswald as much as they possibly could.

A perfect example of someone being too close is Buell Frazier who got it in the neck from early evening onwards from the D.P.D. that day. Joe Molina a worthy second.

The yellow marker (grey on these pages) and pen annotations are from Harry Livingstone whose archive I have been digitising this past year and a bit.

Do read!

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The James Hosty notes

The James Hosty Notes.

 

A small part of this material has already been released through my second paper Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations.

Recently a post by Rob Clark at the Education Forum asked “Best of the Year 2019″. In a nutshell the thread was about what were the best finds in 2019 from an evidentiary/research p.o.v. Cliff Varnell mentioned two instances of which one was the discovery of the handwritten note by James Hosty which I found in Malcolm Blunt’s archive in Feb. 2019 and I posted this straight after finding it. This document caused a few ripples within the scene and led to a doubling in my website traffic that same month and a 1.5 x increase the month after. A good indicator of people being curious about this find. The document in question is below.

Pat Speer had the nerve to call it and I quote:  The Hosty notes are not notes perse, but are a first draft of a report. Well he has got that right. And then This draft is important but not for the reason most believe. He mentions in this draft that he confronted Oswald about contacting the Soviet Embassy.  

So a phrase on Oswald’s letter to the Soviet embassy is more important than Hosty recording that Oswald got a coke for his lunch and then went out to watch the P. parade.

Has everyone else stopped rolling around laughing yet? It’s posts like Speer’s that cause nothing but acrimony between researchers. The stuff he writes about in that post Airtel and Ruth Paine has nothing to do with the thread’s subject. What he puts forward is old news and filled with speculative innuendo as well..

But having said that it got me thinking and looking into Hosty’s paper work. Below the document in question, which I found in Feb. 2019.

Handwritten note by James P. Hosty. Click page to enlarge.

It was F.B.I. procedure to destroy handwritten notes once a typed up version was created, Hosty made mention of this during his Schweiker Committee testimony. In Hosty’s book Assignment Oswald two notebook pages appear on one page related to the interrogations of Lee Oswald. These were miraculously found in a pile of papers at his home. What Hosty did not do was post all the other pages I found or even make mention of them.

The world had no idea that these notes existed at all. That was until Feb. 2019 when I visited Malcolm Blunt’s archives and found a folder entitled “Hosty”. This folder at Malcolm Blunt’s archives was filled with more than 200 pages. I only published the one page as it had the most revealing sentence regarding to Oswald’s actions just before the motorcade passed by the T.S.B.D. “Then went outside to watch the P. parade“. That passage reconciles with the handwritten Fritz notes phrase “Out with Bill Shelley, in front”.

The note by itself was a good find in Malcolm’s archives. He himself had no idea that he had this very important document. Nevertheless it was a great addition as evidence to my paper.

*****

The page, showing two notebook pages is part of a set of 3. I shall post the third page below, there is nothing suspicious about the missing page as it makes mention of matters that are happening after the first and only interrogation Hosty was present at. There were more pages in that notebook, but they do not relate to the interrogation. I will get back to these extra pages in a moment.

 

 

Hosty was there along with James Bookhout and three D.P.D. officers (Will Fritz, Richard Sims and Elmer Boyd). On that third page you can see Hosty making mention of the first line-up and even the Sorrell’s talk which got him in hot water due to Secret Service agent William Patterson reporting on this.

If I take the very first notebook page and compare it to the page on D.P.D. affidavit paper I found it becomes clear that the notebook page was written during the interrogations and that the actual page served as the source for the draft report on the right. The result is that the “1st floor entrance office” is the third handwritten source for Oswald’s location when the motorcade passed by the building.

James Hosty handwritten notes. Click to enlarge.

In Hosty’s book Assignment Oswald he described how he kept on taking notes even after the interrogation.

I decided nonetheless that I would remain at the police station. Just because I couldn’t talk to the police didn’t mean I couldn’t learn things from them. I headed back to Fritz’s office, where I knew the police were keeping Oswald’s personal belongings. Nothing there, but in the second inner office, which belonged to Lieutenant Walter Potts, I spotted Oswald’s things, which had been removed from his person and from his apartment at the Oak Cliff rooming house. Among the items on Potts’s desk was Oswald’s black address book. I pulled out my pad of blank police affidavit forms and started transcribing the entries in his book, thinking I might find some interesting leads or even some possible co-conspirators. A little way into my transcribing, I came across a line that made my heart crawl. There, scrawled in Oswald’s handwriting, was the entry:
Nov. 1 James P. Hasty, RI1-
1211, MV8605,
1114 Commerce, Dallas.

I do not share Hosty’s opinion that the name says Hasty. The way it was written down could be interpreted both ways. Oswald’s way of writing an “a” or an “o” appear to be fairly similar. See for yourself in the image which comes from Hosty’s book.

Hosty’s details in Oswald’s notebook. Click to enlarge.

Hosty mentions in his book that he used a pad of blank police affidavit forms. The document at the very top is part of that bloc. The rest which I am posting below show the details of Oswald’s address book. Now whether the draft document from the top was created before or after him taking down the details of that address book will remain a mystery. But all these pages come from D.P.D. affidavit papers.

Then there are more pages from his notebook, and they appear to show a deeper investigation into Oswald’s past. There is a mention of Mrs Cunningham who worked for the Texas Employment Bureau and also Pauline V. Bates. I have no idea what the actual sequence should be, these were stuck together in twos on one page.

 

In Hosty’s book he ‘remembers’ how the conversation went and again mentions Oswald’s location being on the first floor, although he has changed the landing of the T.S.B.D. for the Domino Room.

Okay now, Lee, you work at the Texas School Book Depository, isn’t that right?
Yeah, that’s right.
When did you start working there?
About October fifteenth
What did you do down there?
I was just a common laborer.
Now, did you have access to all floors of the building?
Of course.
Tell me what was on each of those floors.
The first and second floors have offices. The third and fourth floor are storage. So are the fifth and sixth.
And you were working there today, is that right?
Yep.
Were you there when the president’s motorcade went by?
Yeah.
Where were you when the president went by the book depository?
I was eating my lunch in the first floor lunchroom.
What time was that?
About noon.
Were you ever on the second floor around the time the president was shot?
Well, yeah. I went up there to get a bottle of Coca-Cola from the machine for my lunch.
But where were you when the president actually passed your building?
On the first floor in the lunchroom.
And you left the depository, isn’t that right?
Yeah.
When did you leave?
Well, I figured with all the confusion there wouldn’t be any more work to do that day.

It will be an enigma how these papers ended up at the archives. Perhaps Hosty wanted to show the world what was really happening and slipped these notes inside the batch. And the A.R.R.B. completely overlooked this.

Special thanks go to Malcolm Blunt for the documentation.

The Lone Gunman Podcast Explosive New Evidence and Timeline Tweaks About The Interrogations

I had the pleasure to talk with Rob Clark on his Lone Gunman Podcast for two hours no less on Lee Oswald’s interrogations, it flew by as I had such fun.

Thank you Rob.

Ep. 157 ~ Explosive New Evidence and Timeline Tweaks About The Interrogations. 

In case the audio volume is too low for you I have uploaded the file HERE (150 MB to d/l) which sounds a lot better than the Spreaker upload.

Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations Vol II

Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations Vol II

 

Photo by Shel Hershorn

 

In Dec. 2016 I started to work on the second paper, Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations, after I had released the first Volume of Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter a few months prior. I can now safely say that I have finally finished this beast of a paper. As that is how it felt, I have given it way more time than I intended to and at certain points in the last year I just had to put it aside as it just kept going on and on. Especially when I was granted access to Malcolm Blunt’s archive where I found some key documents that cemented this thing just a wee bit more. In the end this instalment (Vol. 2) is better than I could have hoped for due to the subterfuge of evidence I managed to get my hands on and which are pasted inside the paper and linked to it.

Oswald facing the press guarded by M.G. Hall, R.M Sims, E. Boyd and T.L. Baker

The two hour talk I did in April 2018 at Canterbury Christchurch University was a summarisation of what was going to be released a short while after. But then I decided to change the whole thing. Since its original release the paper had accumulated an extra 150 pages and it had become too cluttered with info that had no real bearing on the actual period while Oswald was incarcerated.

The other self critique I had was that it was nowhere close to the quality of the Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter paper. The info was there but it was just a huge swamp. So decided to try the idea of putting it in a rough time line setting instead.

This was easier said than done and it has taken me a year just to do this. Quite a few reports and interviews summarised that weekend and it was quite a job to peel the material layer by layer and get it in the right time period and setting. No doubt things will get more material added on at a later date, but for now this will have to do.

The only other person that made an attempt on timing the happenings around Oswald that weekend was Mae Brussell. She managed to kick things off with the limited material available at that time.

I hope you enjoy reading this pretty long read, which is filled with documents, pictures and videos. And quite a lot of external links to boot.

Going to end with especially thanking Malcolm Blunt, Ed Ledoux and Alan Dale for proof reading this paper.

View the Anatomy of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations PaperOpens new tab. 331 Pages – 32MB.

 

The Raleigh Call Did Not Happen

The Raleigh Call Did Not Happen

 

From my up and coming paper Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations Vol. 2

This post has been updated Feb 28th and March 4th, Dec 18th 2019 and Feb. 25th, Aug. 20th 2020 and Jan 11th 2021.

I intended to release Vol. 2 of the Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations paper almost six months ago, but more evidence kept on turning up and I decided to overhaul its entire structure (by creating a timeline instead).

While working on my paper I kept thinking of including The Raleigh Call by Grover Proctor into my first release in Sept 2017,  it had Oswald making a phone call to John Hurt late on Saturday the 23rd. But in the last minute I decided against it, as something did not feel right….that all important niggle, yet not knowing where that niggle came from or what it entailed I kept it for what it was for 18 months, just a niggle.

So what is it about the Raleigh Call by Grover Proctor? The history of the Raleigh Call is written up by Randy Benson at Indyweek. I’ll quote from it: “It was through the work of independent researcher Michael Canfield that a copy of the Raleigh Call slip first became public. He secured a copy of the slip, which became available as the result of a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by a civil rights activist, while conducting research for the 1975 book Coup d’Etat in America. The book, co-authored with Alan Weberman, was the first major work to deal with the Raleigh Call, and the slip was reprinted in the appendix.”  Anthony Summers’ book  Conspiracy made a brief mention about the call as well. But he dropped it when his updated version was released.

From thereon Grover Proctor picked up on it and did his research for years to come.

I do not believe that Oswald made a call to Raleigh, let alone spoke with John David Hurt. There is simply too much wrong with it. By just going through the batch of statements on Proctor’s page there are a quite a few inconsistencies, plus an event of this calibre has a few too many memory lapses as well.

Let me start with what I have issues with.

The Raleigh call allegedly happens late in the evening of Saturday the 23rd of Nov. between 22:15 – 22:35. The evening of the 23rd after 21:00 hrs during Oswald’s detention is not very well covered with any happenings at all. I know this as I decided to put Oswald’s interrogations in a timeline manner together for my paper.  From that time until the next morning when Oswald is being picked up for his last interrogation is pretty much a black hole.

The biggest obstacle from the word get go is that there is no report of this event as there are from the three earlier phone calls Oswald had that day other than an alleged slip signed by Louise Swinney who works at the switch board, there is nothing physically present to support this claim.

Raleigh Call Phone Slip Louise Swinney

The first phone call by Lee Oswald on Nov 23rd is recorded by the jailer Arthur E. Eaves is at about 13:40 which is almost 24 hours after his arrest!  Oswald has been returned to his cell after another interrogation by Will Fritz in the morning and sees Marina shortly after this session and is then brought back to his jail cell from where he uses the phone. This looks like Oswald’s very first attempt to call John Abt.

Arthur E. Eaves affidavit. Click pic. to enlarge.

Oswald then makes a call to Ruth Pain, at 16:00, trying to get hold of Marina. See the affidavit below of J.L. Popplewell. I go into depth about this call to Ruth Paine in my Anatomy Of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations.

J.L. Popplewell affidavit. Click to enlarge.

 

J.L. Popplewell affidavit. Click to enlarge.

He also makes a call at 20:00 according to the document below with Thurber T. Lord’s statement.

Thurber T. Lord affidavit. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

What is telling from these three documents is that Oswald was always in his cell when he was allowed to make his phone call(s) and that the jailers were present. There is no talk of women at a switch board and from the look of it, he was given the chance to make the calls unhindered. Also the story from the Raleigh call that two detectives are present to prevent this particular call from happening rings hollow compared to the documentation above. I will get back to you about the two detectives in a minute.

On a side note, as Oswald wanted to call New York and get hold of attorney Abt it has been put forward by other researchers that Oswald never knew who Abt was until he was incarcerated, or better yet that Abt was put into Oswald’s head there and then while under arrest. Yet this FBI report by S.A. Joe B. Abernathy on Nov 24th. states that Dallas long distance telephone operator Louise Mullen recalls one ___ Oswald placed a collect call to ___ Abt in New York about three weeks prior the assassination. Which makes it early Nov. 1963. Whether that action as mentioned at the end of this memorandum was actually followed up is not known at this point.

Joe B Abernathy report on John Abt. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Swinney was the supervisor and Alveeta Cave Treon was there. Treon’s daughter Sharon Kovac was present as well when it allegedly happened.

Louise Swinney’s statements.

On  Feb 2nd 1978 She remembers, shortly thereafter, that Oswald tried to make two calls.

One to “Lawyer Apt.” [sic.] in New York and she doesn’t remember where the other call was to. The name John Hunt [sic.] is not familiar to her. She stated that she did not put either call through for Oswald. The detectives left after they got the numbers. She states that she wrote the numbers on a blue piece of paper and she believes she may still have it at home. She will try to find it for me. She remembers Alveeta Treon well, but does not recall if they worked together on the night of 11/23/63.

Then on April 20th in an outside contact report (see below) things get better when the slip gets into play: I showed Louise Swinney, a Xerox copy of the slip containing information on a phone call placed by Lee Harvey Oswald to John Hurt, Raleigh, N.C. on November 23, 1963 and bearing her signature. She stated that it was definitely [ sic. ] not her signature. She was upset that someone had signed her name. She stated that she never handled a call from Oswald to John Hurt. She stated that she only handled a call from Oswald to Lawyer Apt [ sic. ] and another one that she cannot remember, but it was not to John Hurt. Mrs. Swinney insisted on giving me samples of her handwriting and told me that she would have no reason to lie. She stated that only someone working in the switchboard room could have made that out and Alveeta Treon [ sic. ] was the only other person working that night.

A very strong denial.

Louise Swinney. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Let’s compare Swinney’s statements with Alveeta Treon.

In an interview of Nov 7th 1978 Alveeta Treon says:

Mrs. Treon said that it has concerned her from conversations with Committee investigator Harold Rose that we might not have completely correct information. She said the sequence at the switchboard was that when Oswald came on, both she and Louise Swinney got on the line to take the call. She said, however, it was clear that Mrs. Swinney intended to handle it, as though she had instructions, so Mrs. Treon let her handle it, but Mrs. Treon stayed on the line. She said she was therefore able to hear everything Oswald said and she is sure he asked for the name John Hurt and gave the two numbers. She said that as she listened she wrote the information down on a regular telephone call slip. However, since Mrs. Swinney actually handled the call, Mrs. Treon signed her name to the slip she intended to keep as a souvenir. She said the notations on the slip of “DA” and “CA” stand for did not answer and cancelled, because the call was never actually put through. Mrs. Treon said she never retrieved any paper from the wastebasket on which Mrs. Swinney supposedly entered the information.

Mrs. Treon said her lasting impression of the events that night is that Mrs. Swinney had been instructed by someone to not put the call through to Oswald. She said her belief was strengthened by the fact that Mrs. Swinney did not leave work as soon as Mrs. Treon came on that night as she usually did. Instead she remained as though she had been assigned to handle the call.

The statements by these two women by itself should have been enough to question the truthfulness of this story.

Then there is the matter of two detectives who are present while Oswald is making the call and who are there to prevent the call getting through. The documents of the earlier phone calls show that Oswald was given every opportunity to talk to whomever he wanted to talk to. The phone call at 16:00 lasts no less than 30 minutes.

In her Nov 7th 1978  interview Mrs. Treon said she also intended to tell Rose that her daughter Sharon thought she recognized one of the men who came into the telephone room when Oswald tried to make his call. She said Sharon thought the man might have been one of the officers who was with Oswald just before he was shot in the basement; she thought it was the one who was handcuffed to him. Which can only be Jim Leavelle or L.C. Graves.

Treon’s daughter Sharon Kovac, contradicts matters in her statement from Dec. 16 1978 even more: Ms. Kovac said she cannot recall anyone else being present in the switchboard room that night besides herself and her mother. She said she knows Louise Swinney, her mother’s supervisor, but she does not recall Mrs. Swinney being present at the time. She said when Oswald called in, it is her recollection that her mother handled the call and she remembers seeing her mother open her key on the switchboard at the time of the call.

 Swinney who allegedly took the call and wrote the slip and her was supposedly looking on, but the above contradicts this.

 With regards to IDing the two detectives who were there to prohibit the call from going through.  In the Dec. 16 1978 statement by Sharon Kovac: She said that on Sunday, November 24, 1963 when Oswald was shot in the Dallas Police Department basement, Lt. Leavelle, the man to whom Oswald was hand cuffed at the time of the shooting “resembled” one of the men who had come into the switchboard room on November 23, but she does not believe it was Lt. Leavelle.

Which in all honesty doesn’t give us anything as to who they actually were. Nor is there any follow up investigation regarding this. no pictures shown, nothing.

So Alveeta Treon has one version of the story, her daughter contradicts this, and Louise Swinney her supervisor contradicts both their stories.

In an interview of April 11th 1978 John Hurt, who has been discharged since 1946 and is severely disabled,  denies the whole thing. Whether he was connected to military intelligence in the 50’s is besides the point. The Raleigh Call did not happen.

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Added on Feb. 28th 2019.

And here are two pages of a F.B.I. report from Feb. 3rd 1964 that show the phone numbers Oswald had written down on a piece of paper and that was found on him after he was shot.

No Raleigh call, but Abt and Ruth Paine.

The one factor that is suspicious is the phone number that has been disconnected for 7 years already, and could be a code.

Phone calls list Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Phone calls list Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

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Added March 4th.

FBI memo Feb 6 1964. Click to enlarge.

 

Click to enlarge.

 

Update Dec 18th 2019.

Oswald thanked Fritz for letting him use the phone, in his W.C. testimony Will Fritz states:

Mr. BALL. Was there anything said about calling him on the telephone?

Mr. FRITZ. A little bit later.

Mr. BALL. Not that time?

Mr. FRITZ. Not that minute. A little bit later, he asked something else about an attorney and I said, “Did you call an attorney?” And he said, “You know I can’t use the telephone.” And I said, “Yes, you can; anybody can use a telephone.” So, I told them to be sure to let him use a telephone and the next time I talked to him he thanked me for that, so I presume he called.

The following document below is a terrible example of a cover up between Fritz and James Bookhout. Oswald did not mention anything about John Abt on Friday Nov. 22nd.

Nor did Oswald make his first phone call until almost 24 hours after he was arrested. The document below tries to move all this to a much earlier time frame.

Oswald phone calls – Will Fritz by James Bookhout. Click doc to enlarge.

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Add on Feb. 25th 2020.

Then the ARRB is looking into the Raleigh call matter as well.

ARRB – The John Hurt situation. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Update Aug 20th 2020.

I have come across two more documents/

 

DOJ emo regarding the Raleigh Call. Click to enlarge.

And then there is the H.S.C.A. interview with Winston Smith, who heard the story in 1965 after moving the Treons out of Dallas to Springfield.

 

Add on Jan 11th 2021.

Then finally let’s have John David Hurt tell his own story to the HSCA.

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for the A.R.R.B, H.S.C.A. and F.B.I. documents.

MWN Episode 078 – Bart Kamp on Prayer Man, Oswald, & the TSBD

About 6 weeks ago I was approached by S.T. Patrick of Midnight Writer News to do an interview for his show after a few weeks we finally managed to do this. Listening back to it one month after I  did it I have to say I did not do too bad. I am very critical of myself when I do these things, and the good thing is that after listening to 50 mins of it I haven’t turned it off yet!

I am talking about the research done and of course, the 2nd floor lunch room encounter, T.S.B.D., Dallas P.D. and Prayer Man all pass the avenue during this interview.

A thoroughly enjoyable experience.

Thank you S.T. Patrick.

Go HERE to hear the interview and read up about it on the Midnight Writer News Website.

During the interview I mistakenly refer to me as having received the JFK Lancer Pioneer Award, which is wrong it was the New Frontier Award actually. Apologies for the mix-up.

Oswald in the corridor Nov 22nd after his hearing.

Oswald in the corridor Nov 22nd, after his Tippit arraignment which was at 7:10 PM.

A week ago I posted a silent version of this video , I then found this one with audio attached to it from a Canadian TV program. And since hearing the audio now, I can safely say that this is the same moment as in the video posted below this one, but all the way from the other side. Kinda cool. This is where it pays of looking and comparing at the film material of those happenings inside that corridor. There was a lot made that day and the weekend after, but so little has been released in decent quality.

This is after Oswald’s arraignment inside Fritz’s office for the Tippit murder.

 

This door leads to the jail elevator.

Third floor plan Dallas City Hall. Click pic. to enlarge.

And then from that very same door Oswald emerges at about 19:50 hrs, the Patsy sequence. Again requesting legal representation and exclaiming his innocence of shooting The President.

 

Think about it in a time frame of roughly 40 minutes Lee Oswald, twice mentioned the hearing without legal representation. Not allowing him to have any, and steadfastly denying he shot anyone.

Prayer Man The Movie 2 years later

Yesterday two years ago I uploaded The Prayer Man movie, it has managed to be seen just under 108,000 times. That averages roughly just over 1,000 views per week! An amazing result for which I have to thank everyone who took the effort to go through it all. It is a lot of info to digest in 100 minutes.

I have said that there will be a follow up and there is still none, but I will start working on it over the next few weeks and then it will be released in shorter instalments as 2 years later there is even more information to divulge.

Thanks again for watching and sharing!!!