Jan
03
There were ten women on the fourth floor when it went down.
From my up and coming paper Anatomy of the T.S.B.D.
Updated with a new title, a little text and some pictures on Jan 5th 2020.
Updated with the addition of a gallery of 4th floor drawings on March 12th 2022.
I knew that Victoria Adams’ descent down the back stairs of the T.S.B.D. was one key to the assassination puzzle especially when Oswald was supposedly to go down those same steps “escaping” from the building at about the same time. The ladies had watched among other fourth floor employees the motorcade turn the corner in front of the building on to Elm St. Then they heard the shots fired at the limousine. Adams and Styles almost immediately left the window to go down the back stairs, make their way towards the railroad yard, and upon arrival they were told to go back where they came from, which they did thru the front doors of the T.S.B.D.
The first one who drew my attention to this was Oliver Stone, who brought this segment up during the Garrison trial in the movie JFK.
Actors representing Victoria Adams’ and Sandra Styles’ descent in a re-enactment for the film J.F.K. Click to enlarge.
If there is anyone who researched Victoria Adams’ and Sandra Styles’ descent from the fourth floor to the railroad yard and back into the front of the T.S.B.D. better than anyone else it is Barry Ernest.
His book The Girl On The Stairs: The Search for a Missing Witness to the JFK Assassination led me to focus more on the T.S.B.D. and its employees.
From his research we know that.
- Victoria Adams did go through her W.C. statement and applied corrections even though the document ends with her stating she waivers her signature. The ‘corrected’ statement is being held much longer under lock and key than the first version without any corrections.
- She accused the W.C. of inserting the Lovelady & Shelley encounter in her testimony. She described the person she encountered after arriving on the first floor as a tall black man. This was independently corroborated by Sandra Styles who knew Shelley and Lovelady and was sure it wasn’t them who they met. The so called Adams & Styles – Lovelady & Shelley encounter on the first floor is a fugezi to undermine the timing of the ladies’ descent. It shows Jim “I don’t recall” Leavelle of the D.P.D. the maker of this report as a fabricator, who placed the misleading statement inside that report from Feb 1964. Obviously Leavelle is responsible but the decision to do this comes from higher up obviously.
- The Martha J. Stroud document Ernest found at the archives in Washington in 1999 confirms Adams’ corrections to her statement, and also states that Dorothy Garner saw the girls leave before the police officer came up to the fourth floor. Garner’s real statement or anything besides the Stroud letter leading to it has disappeared.
- The W.C. discredited Adams’ story. by disbelieving her, nor did it really investigate further. But the W.C. did more to discredit Victoria Adams and it did that by minimising any attention towards the fourth floor.
While reading up about the other T.S.B.D. employees present on the fourth and fifth floors something else becomes apparent. The fourth floor was filled with ladies looking out through the south side windows.
Victoria Adams. Source: Barry Ernest.
Sandra Styles-Baylor Uni, Waco-1962
Elsie Dorman. Source: Life Magazine.
Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.
Judyth Louise McCully.
Avery Davis. Source E-Yearbook.com.
Mary Hollies. Source: E-Yearbook.com. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.
Ruth Nelson. Source Ancestry Family Tree. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.
Yola Hopson 1945. Source E-Yearbook.com. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.
Betty Alice Foster. Source E-Yearbook.com. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.
Think about it. Ten people on the fourth floor when it all went down. Some of them could have easily confirmed when Adams and Styles left. But that is something the Warren Commission, D.P.D., F.B.I. and the Secret Service, by the looks of it, did not bother much with.
Weaver Polaroid. Click to enlarge.
Even though Avery Davis claimed to be on the front steps, she is not recognised in either the Wiegman and Darnell films nor did any other person name her. Davis named Judyth McCully as the person she was on the steps with. McCully’s initial F.B.I. statement states that she was on the fourth floor while it all went down which then got changed to the front steps. Judyth McCully’s daughter told me that this was done at the behest of the F.B.I.
So if I do not know any better then efforts were made to look the fourth floor as a non event as much as possible with moving some witnesses away so original witness statements could not be corroborated.
Some more food for thought are the diagrams of the fourth floor. There were just three large rooms so people were close on each other.
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- WR 4th floor diagram 1964. From Mary Ferrell.
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- Fourth floor TSBD staff diagram. From Mary Ferrell.
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- Fourth floor TSBD staff diagram. From Mary Ferrell.
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- Fourth floor TSBD staff diagram. From Mary Ferrell.
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- FBI Diagram 1963. Thanks to Gary Murr
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- FBI Diagram 1963. Thanks to Gary Murr
Think about it, there were 10 people on the fourth floor. Some of them stood a few meters away from each other. Adams’ and Styles descent was the kryptonite to the Oswald ‘escape’.
Then there are the men from the 5th floor and especially Jarman, Norman and Williams. I have made a spreadsheet with all three workers’ answers from every statement they have given and that are available. Download it from HERE.
From left to right: James Earl Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams and Harold Norman in the Tom Dillard photo. Click to enlarge.
The fourth floor stop is in some statements not to be found, but in the W.C. testimony from Bonnie Ray Williams he states: They paused for one minute on the 4th floor as there were all these women looking out. Then there is James Jarman who during his W.C. testimony disowns the fourth floor stop even after asked about it by John J McCloy by saying I believe we went all the way.
The fourth floor was a direct threat to Oswald’s so called escape, so they thought. Until of course the Prayer Man surfaced and it has transpired Oswald was nowhere near the 6th floor when the shots were fired…
Nov
11
I had the pleasure to talk with Rob Clark on his Lone Gunman Podcast for two hours no less on Lee Oswald’s interrogations, it flew by as I had such fun.
Thank you Rob.
Ep. 157 ~ Explosive New Evidence and Timeline Tweaks About The Interrogations.
In case the audio volume is too low for you I have uploaded the file HERE (150 MB to d/l) which sounds a lot better than the Spreaker upload.
Jul
30
Jimmy Darnell Footage
Updated:
Sept. 13 2019.
March 13 2021.
Denis Morissette pointed out on FB these two videos of Jimmy Darnell being interviewed and filmed while in the basement of KXAS. The videos have been recently released via the UNT site and are from the WBAP later to become KXAS and these days known as NBC5.
In the first clip you can see Darnell looking at a strip of 16MM film on a reel, this strip is of the front of the T.S.B.D. segment. Now this may not even be his film, but Dave Wiegman’s instead. I am simply amazed that he is looking at this film, which supposedly disappeared into NBC’s archives in N.Y. Yet here we are looking at an original or a very good copy of it.
This is the film no one knows where it is, by the looks of it from this segment and the next the copy they have digitised for these videos looks of great quality. Question is at what resolution did they digitise the film? And where is it now?
Click to enlarge.
In the second clip (skip to 01:05) Darnell is doing narration of him running ‘this is where I bail’, but the Wiegman film is on the monitor and more importantly Dave Wiegman ran on the pavement on the right side of Elm St. whereas Jimmy Darnell ran on the grassy left side of Elm where he eventually filmed as the press buss passed in front of him.
Jimmy Darnell, on the far left, after he got out of Camera Car 3.
Jimmy Darnell in Wilma Bond 5 filming while the press bus passes in front of him. Click to enlarge.
There is also a third clip.
Take a good look at this video compilation of Darnell footage by Denis Morissette and you will see that he is on the left side of Elm.
Wiegman was in Cam Car 1, whereas Darnell was in Cam Car 3. His footage is roughly 10-15 seconds after Wiegman shot his segment of the front of the T.S.B.D.
Both these two segments are odd as NBC5 used the Wiegman film assuming it was Darnell’s. But more importantly NBC5 had a 16MM copy of the Wiegman film!
The same Wiegman segment is used in a remembrance news feature after Jimmy Darnell’s passing.
May
05
Today I came across an article that I had read about when I read “Into The Nightmare” by Joe McBride. The article in question is called: The other Witnesses by George and Patricia Nash for the The New Leader in 1964 (pages 105 – 109). This article largely looks into the Tippit murder and points out other witnesses which were never properly interviewed nor brought forward. In this article at the end the second floor lunch room encounter is brought up as well and more importantly that Bill Shelley told them that Truly and Baker entered the T.S.B.D. five or six minutes after the shooting. This of course destroys the W.C. timings once again, which were set at 75-90 seconds and of course Oswald’ departure in 3 minutes after the deed.
I’d love to see George and Patricia Nash’s archives.
Mar
09
Dallas Police & Sheriff H.S.C.A. statements
This year I have spent countless hours on gathering, scanning and organising many thousands of pages of documents from a few archives. This H.S.C.A. material of thirteen D.P.D. personnel comes from the Malcolm Blunt archives and there are a few bits that provide some little interesting bits of information with regards the assassination, the aftermath, the searches and the happenings inside City Hall.
See for yourself.
With thanks to Malcolm Blunt.
Woodrow Wiggins in charge of the jail on Sunday Nov 24th.
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- Woodrow Wiggins HSCA
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- Woodrow Wiggins HSCA
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- Woodrow Wiggins HSCA
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- Woodrow Wiggins HSCA
Fay M. Turner
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- F.M. Turner HSCA
Bobby Joe Dale
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- Bobby Joe Dale HSCA
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- Bobby Joe Dale HSCA
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- Bobby Joe Dale HSCA
Luke Mooney
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- Like Mooney HSCA
Gus Rose
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- Gus Rose HSCA
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- Gus Rose HSCA
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- Gus Rose HSCA
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- Gus Rose HSCA
Henry M. Moore
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- Henry M Moore HSCA
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- Henry M Moore HSCA
James Gilmore
Pat Gannaway
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
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- Pat Gannaway HSCA
Paul Bentley
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- Paul Bentley HSCA
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- Paul Bentley HSCA
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- Paul Bentley HSCA
There was another Paul Bentley HSCA report released through NARA.
Paul McCaghren
Richard Stovall (one page missing) Page 3 is here.
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- Richard Stovall HSCA
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- Richard Stovall HSCA
Stavis Ellis
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- Stavis Ellis HSCA
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- Stavis Ellis HSCA
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- Stavis Ellis HSCA
Updates:
Aug 11 2019.:
March 14th 2020:
May 3rd 2020:
Feb 21th 2021:
Paul Bentley HSCA report added.
June 11th 2021:
June 27 2021:
Sept 13th 2021:
Feb
17
Marina Oswald: “It’s Lee”
By Ed Ledoux and Bart Kamp.
Some photos and text has been added and amended. Feb. 22nd 2019.
In June and July of 2018 the core ROKC members were discussing amongst themselves whether to get in contact with Marina Oswald and ask her what she thought of the whole Prayer Man situation. We agreed to put it forward to her, nothing ventured nothing gained right?
Stan Dane printed one of the better shots of the Wiegman and Darnell films alongside a picture of the book cover and sent these enlargements to her. No photo of Doorway man (a.k.a. Billy Lovelady) was sent to her at any time. Stan did not receive a reply so Ed Ledoux rang her and left a message on her answer machine not expecting to hear back from her. But less than 25 minutes later she rang back. He asked her whether she had received the images and she said she had.
Prayer Man enlargements sent to Marina Oswald. Pic. Stan Dane.
Out Of The Shadows Into The Light Prayer Man book cover. Pic. Stan Dane.
What follows is Ed Ledoux’s story abut this particular phone call:
I wanted Marina Oswald to tell me about that figure seen in the Darnell and Wiegman films Stan Dane had sent to her, a figure who was standing in the dark shadowy top left corner, one whom was labelled Figure J. in drawings by Richard Bernabei.
Occupants front steps of the T.S.B.D. by Richard Bernabei. Click pic. to enlarge.
I felt the need to explain everything first, as she immediately asked what this was all about and began to tell all the details as best as I could relate quickly to her about Weigman and Darnell, the steps, our research and that of others.
Sketch of Prayer Man and Bill Shelley on the front steps of the T.S.B.D. by Richard Bernabei. Click pic. to enlarge.
Sketch of Prayer Man, Billy Lovelady, Otis Williams and Bill Shelley on the front steps of the T.S.B.D. by Richard Bernabei. Click pic. to enlarge.
When I was about to mention Richard Bernabei’s annotated sketches of Weigman from the late 60’s, which were not sent to her, with the unknown figure marked J. she stopped me.
Marina interjected and said “That’s Lee” I was taken aback as she knew exactly what and who I had asked about. She volunteered her answer. I exclaimed “What?” to make sure I had heard her correctly. And she replied to me “It’s Lee.” and did so as quite a matter of fact.
There I was thinking, here is the one person besides Marguerite Oswald whom would know the likeness of Lee better than any armchair detective or internet warrior could. Here she was confirming the identity of her husband and in effect the work done by Sean Murphy until the 50th anniversary of the murder, and now carried on by the ROKC crew as a litmus test in the Kennedy assassination.
When I asked Marina about the images of Prayer Man to Lee she said, “Yes, seen it many times” like it was old news.
Well I was dazzled by her quick wit and retorts. She is no slouch when it comes to her late husband and the case.
Well I was dazzled by her quick wit and retorts. She is no slouch when it comes to her late husband and the case.
She said “They have dropped the assumed part, and just say he is guilty” so I explained the FBI and Justice Dept. have both closed the case and retroactively declared Lee guilty.
I asked if she knew of a way to help and she understood the problem.
She wanted to know my age, she sharing hers first like a lady. I shared mine and she said “Good, you’re young enough to get something done.”
I told her about the book, “Prayer Man, Out Of The Shadows And Into The Light” by Stan Dane.
Marina asked when it was published. I said it has been out three and a half years.
When I told her what information it had about documenting Lee on the first floor and in the vestibule, she responded resolutely, “I don’t need to be convinced.”
Marina was kind and soft spoken, wanted me to help her children who suffer the most by having a father wrongfully called a murderer. No jury, no trial, no full investigation, yet the United States legal system allows this.
I asked if she knew of a way to help and she understood the problem.
She wanted to know my age, she sharing hers first like a lady. I shared mine and she said “Good, you’re young enough to get something done.”
I told her about the book, “Prayer Man, Out Of The Shadows And Into The Light” by Stan Dane.
Marina asked when it was published. I said it has been out three and a half years.
When I told her what information it had about documenting Lee on the first floor and in the vestibule, she responded resolutely, “I don’t need to be convinced.”
Marina was kind and soft spoken, wanted me to help her children who suffer the most by having a father wrongfully called a murderer. No jury, no trial, no full investigation, yet the United States legal system allows this.
As Marina Oswald called me back in such a short time after I had left a message I did not record this call. But I did call her back again two weeks later, this was after I sent her Stan Dane’s book and asked her to give me her blessing to what she had said to me two weeks prior. In this conversation she stated that she had not read the Stan Dane book, as there were too many characters involved and that all they had to do is compare two faces; Lee and Billy Lovelady. The rest didn’t matter. Listen to the short recording below.
NBC Universal holds the original footage of Darnell and Wiegman from that day in 1963 when The President, John F. Kennedy, was murdered.
These original 16 mm films contain much better detail than the circulating ones. The copies that are around were transferred to 3/4 inch VHS tape nearly 60 years ago and are overall not very clear due to the generational gap and the artefacts it inherited due to the transfer.
Poor quality images allow the weak and timid to say it might be Lee or dispute it, and until better images they retort that they can’t agree it is Oswald, until its shown and proven to be Lee.
Thus the Prayer Man litmus test has enabled ROKC to sample those researchers genuinely looking to end all debate as to Lee’s innocence.
The naysayers dismiss with a wave of the hand the literal mountains of physical and documented evidence that puts Lee on the first floor during the assassination and outside during the shooting.
Naysayers accomplish this by saying the images taken from the films are to blurry.
Blurry yes, but good enough for them to identify Buell Frazier, and Billy Lovelady without second guesses.
I have spoken with Buell Frazier and I got the sense he recognises the figure but cannot allow himself to say what Marina effortlessly stated. “It’s Lee.”
Buell has identified himself in the films.
Buell Frazier in Darnell.
He has said he thought the figure near him called Prayer Man is Bill Shelley, Buell may default to Bill but he also realises Bill left the steps with Billy Lovelady to walk down to the rail yard and knoll area. Buell cant reconcile the figure with the logistics of those present.
I want to show Buell a better image too.
Slowly these things help to settle this important matter. Just over a week ago Bart managed to show a note made by FBI agent James Hosty which clearly stated that “He went to 2nd floor to get coca cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. parade.”
This document and the Fritz interrogation notes show that Lee himself is giving his alibi to the police and knowing that Bill Shelley was there with him, only for police authorities to twist things and use it against him.
Lee said he stepped out to see what all the excitement was about as reported by Detective Ed Hicks.
Reporters were documenting this statement.
In his interview shortly before Lee was murdered by Jack Ruby, Postal Inspector Harry Holmes asked about Lee’s alibi.
Specifically that Lee was in the Vestibule or nearing the vestibule when the shooting took place. There is only one vestibule proper. It is between the two outer columns flanking the steps, up to the front door.
That is in part Oswald’s alibi, being out in the vestibule and knowing who else was on the steps.
I wanted to see the best images of those steps and who was in the vestibule and asked for and was granted a license for the Darnell film. Additionally I made an offer to transfer Darnell into 4k or 8k resolution, using the vendor of their choice to perform the scan and at my cost, but I was soon told that the powers that be had denied access to the film.
Rather than provide me the best quality image available NBC asked that I use a high quality format but media that was from a 3/4″ tape circa 1970’s era.
I declined to accept this paltry material.
I thank the folks who helped with the project, especially Bart Kamp, Greg Parker, and Stan Dane who have searched for the original films with me.
Thanks to the fine folks at ROKC I knew beyond a shadow that Lee was Prayer Man and I continued based on evidence that the films were in New York at the NBC ‘archives’ there.
The films are still awaiting a new Executive to allow access to study them.
Greg Parker has sent a public letter asking NBC Universal for the films to be accessed by researchers and students.
We are still waiting their reply.
Thanks to Marina I realised the truth has just begun.
Marina asked me about the films timing, she said it’s important. I explained that the limo is still seen exiting Dealey Plaza in the Dave Wiegman film, which syncs up with Wiegman and then Darnell, so its a matter of seconds.
Marina said that makes Lee innocent.
I agreed,…
I’ve spoke to Marina a few more times to update her on the Prayer Man project and various aspects of the case. I am going to tell her about the Sixth Floor Museums donation they received of a 2k copy of Darnell.
Alan Dale asked Stephen Fagin at the Lancer conference about the film and Fagin told that it can be viewed in the museum’s viewing room, but there is no zooming or slowing the playback there unfortunately.
I had mentioned to her that I would find better footage, as she was not positive NBC would ever allow access. So we are hopeful to have more to discuss in the future.
Jun
25
Interesting set. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for sending me these.
Shanklin to Sorrels and handing over a list of photographers around the crime scene. The list is missing of course.
Gordon Shanklin to Forrest Sorrells. Click pic to enlarge.
Doorway Man discussed with Bill Shelley and Roy Truly.
Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 31 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 431 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Oswald’s description over the police radio, most interesting doc.
Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Jun
14
Updated Aug 5th 2018.
Pauline Sanders I have already posted more info on her page.
Sarah Stanton, according to Buell Frazier a short heavy set lady. And she was a blonde.
Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini and her diligent research.
Sarah Dean Stanton. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini. Click pic. to enlarge.
Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton in the Darnell film.. Click to enlarge.
The photograph obtained by Brian Doyle of Sarah Stanton was taken after 1963, and according to her grand daughter(s) she was less heavy set in the photograph than as she was in 1963. According to the grand kids she weighed over 300 lbs. at the time of te assassination.
FBI statement Sarah Stanton March 1964.
FBI Statement Pauline Sanders. Click to enlarge.
FBI statement Pauline Sanders.
Buell Wesley Frazier also confirms in some videos that Sarah Stanton was standing to his left, as per her own statement on the East side of the steps along with Pauline Sanders.
At 18:25.
At 53:14.
At 06:02, Frazier who uses both his hands indicates only with his left hand outwards, so she was standing next to him to his left!
End of story!
