10
Shelley & Truly and the second floor lunch room encounter
This is an addendum to my post from May 25 2022 The Destruction of Lee Oswald’s Alibi & The Invention of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter.
So I have been using Claude, and feed it with all possible documentation and make it play devil’s advocate to show where the mistakes lie or better yet what is missing. And this is where it becomes interesting as you just keep feeding ‘the machine’ with all possible info and just drop all documentation, photos and videos in there and then come across something, better yet ‘been given something’ where you just have to say thank you Claude.
This is about Bill Shelley’s and Roy Truly’s affidavits, its content and the timings thereof.
Shelley’s second handwritte affidavit mentions Lee Harvey Oswald’s lunch habits
“Lee would bring his lunch & usually eat with us in the lounge & read the paper.”
Shelley’s own handwritten affidavit on November 22 describes Oswald’s regular lunch habit as eating in the lounge, the domino room on the first floor. This is Shelley’s baseline description of where Oswald ate. It directly corroborates Oswald’s own account of eating on the first floor.
“I Ask Mr. Truly About Him & He Told Me He Had Not Seen Him”
After the shooting, Shelley asked Truly about Oswald. Truly told Shelley he had not seen Oswald.
This second handwritten affidavit is from November 22, 1963, the same day as the Pinkston memo claiming Truly had seen Oswald in the second floor snack bar. If Truly had encountered Oswald in the lunchroom minutes after the shooting, why did he tell Shelley he had not seen him?
There are only two possibilities:
1/ Truly lied to Shelley on November 22 about not having seen Oswald, while simultaneously telling Pinkston he had seen Oswald in the second floor lunch room.
2/ The Pinkston memo’s second floor encounter account was not what Truly actually told Pinkston on November 22.
One of these statements is false. And I like to point out that Shelley’s is contemporaneous, signed, and has no motive for fabrication.
The more parsimonious explanation is that Truly had not seen Oswald — which is what he told Shelley — and the Pinkston memo’s second floor snack bar account either misrepresents what Truly said, or records something Truly said that was itself inaccurate reconstruction rather than genuine recollection.
Shelley’s November 22 signed affidavit is a document that most directly falsifies the foundation of the entire second floor lunchroom encounter narrative.
08
Marrion Baker’s run towards the TSBD
This is a work in progress.
I have written about Marrion Baker‘s alleged second floor lunchroom encounter countless times since I started this website 11 years ago. But there was one thing that deserved to be explored further and that was Baker’s alleged run towars the TSBD and subsequently ascending the stairs with Roy Truly. This last bit was not captured on camera, but this is what they stated during their testimony and in their (later) affidavits.
Bob Prudhomme was the first who noticed Baker’s run not going towards the stairs. It was a hunch, but a good one.
Sandy Larsen put graphics on top to indicate the path he thought Baker went. It was guess work at best. But during my research for the Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter paper (starting on page 26) I already wrote in depth about Baker’s run.
I was thinking yes he is not going towards the steps, nor was Roy Truly storming up there as he had claimed since the scene below shows him looking at Baker going past him.
Then just today I thought why not let AI do some photogrammetry and study the Jimmy Darnell film since this captures Baker’s run more and longer than Malcolm Couch‘s sequence.
This time I started with Claude.
I asked: Can you do photogrammetry by watching a video?
Video is actually an excellent source for photogrammetry, in some ways superior to still photos. Here’s how it works and what’s involved:
How It Works
Photogrammetry reconstructs 3D geometry by finding the same physical point across multiple images taken from different angles, then triangulating its position in space. Video provides this naturally — every frame is effectively a photograph from a slightly different position as the camera moves.
The process is formally called Structure from Motion (SfM) when derived from video.
The Pipeline
Step 1 — Frame Extraction Extract individual frames from the video. You don’t need every frame — typically 1 frame per second or every few frames is sufficient, depending on camera speed. Too many redundant frames just slow processing.
Step 2 — Feature Detection & Matching The software identifies distinctive points (corners, edges, textures) across frames and matches them between overlapping images. Algorithms like SIFT, SURF, or ORB do this automatically.
Step 3 — Camera Position Solving The software mathematically works out where the camera was in 3D space for each frame — its position and orientation. This produces a sparse point cloud.
Step 4 — Dense Reconstruction Once camera positions are known, a dense point cloud is generated, then converted to a mesh, then optionally textured.
I pasted the link in to the Darnell video (from the Oliver Stone documentary that came with his JFK film), but it could not derive anything from a YouTube link and asked me for a set of stills instead. It did state:
However, based on the URL context and our conversation, this appears to be footage related to the TSBD entrance area after the assassination. Here’s how I’d suggest we approach the analysis:
How to Analyze the Officer’s Direction Yourself
Using the architectural geometry we discussed:
The TSBD entrance steps have a very specific layout:
The main entrance doors are recessed at the top of the steps
The steps run perpendicular to Elm Street
An officer running toward the stairs would show increasing elevation in frame as he approaches
An officer running past them would maintain roughly the same elevation plane
Key things to look for in the footage:
His head/shoulder trajectory — is it angling upward (ascending steps) or staying level (passing by)?
His foot placement — can you see whether feet are lifting for step height?
His body lean — people ascending stairs lean slightly forward differently than people running laterally
Reference points — track him against the door frame, pilasters, or railing if visible
Where he exits frame — does he disappear into the doorway or continue laterally out of shot?
If you can grab a few still frames from the video and share them here as images, I could give you a much more specific analysis. What does the officer appear to be doing from your viewing of it?
Furthermore it stated that:
Relevance to Archival Footage (like the Wiegman/Darnell Films)
This is where it gets very interesting for JFK research. In principle, if you have film footage of the TSBD entrance from a moving camera, you could attempt photogrammetric reconstruction of the scene to:
- Determine the precise camera position and angle at each frame
- Reconstruct the 3D geometry of the steps and entrance area
- Calculate the height and position of figures in the frame relative to known architectural features
This has actually been attempted in the Prayer Man research community. The TSBD entrance steps have known dimensions from architectural records, which gives you a scale reference. If you can solve the camera position, you can theoretically calculate the approximate height of Prayer Man — which is central to the identification debate.
The challenges with archival footage specifically:
- Very low resolution limits feature detection
- Film instability (frame jitter, shrinkage) introduces errors
- Unknown lens characteristics of the original camera
- Single-pass footage with limited angular coverage
The Most Powerful Application
Combined with the deblurring/sharpening pipeline discussed earlier, the ideal workflow for something like Prayer Man would be:
- AI-enhance the footage for clarity
- Use photogrammetry to solve camera geometry
- Map known architectural measurements onto the reconstruction
- Use that to derive subject dimensions and position
This wouldn’t definitively identify someone, but it could constrain the possibilities — ruling out people of certain heights or positions, which is exactly the elimination methodology Kamp uses in his research.
So after all this I added 7 frames of the Darnell film with the focus on the helmeted police officer’s path (Marrion Baker).
Claude’s findings:
Frame-by-Frame Analysis
Images 5 & 6 (earliest in sequence — wider shot from Elm/Houston corner) The helmeted officer is visible in the middle ground, moving at pace. His body trajectory is aimed toward the TSBD facade, but critically hisdirection of travel appears parallel to the building rather than perpendicular toward the entrance. His momentum reads as lateral — left to right across frame.
Images 4 & 1 (mid sequence) This is the key moment. The officer is clearly moving with purpose and speed. Looking at his body lean and foot strike, he appears to be moving along the Elm Street face of the building rather than turning to mount the steps. His torso doesn’t show the characteristic forward pitch you’d expect when someone redirects toward ascending stairs.
Images 2, 3 & 7 (closer to the entrance) By these frames the camera has repositioned closer to the entrance. The crowd on the steps is visible. The officer is no longer distinctly trackable as a separate figure from the crowd.
Your Assessment vs. the Official Account
This is significant because the official Baker account places him:
- Parking his motorcycle at the curb
- Running immediately toward and up the TSBD entrance steps
- Encountering Roy Truly and proceeding inside
But if these frames show Baker moving along the building toward the corner rather than directly into the entrance, that raises genuine questions about:
- Timing — going past the corner and doubling back would add seconds to his trajectory
- Entry point — did he enter via the front steps or another route initially?
- His position relative to Prayer Man on the steps — if he passed rather than ascended, the encounter geometry changes
What Supports Your Reading
- His shadow in the clearer frames suggests movement roughly parallel to the building face
- There is no visible deceleration or pivot toward the steps that you’d expect
- The crowd on the steps appears stationary/milling — Baker doesn’t appear to be cutting through them
- His helmet keeps him trackable — and the helmet doesn’t appear to rise in elevation as it would if he were climbing steps
Caveat
The resolution and camera angle make certainty impossible. The camera itself is moving, which complicates trajectory reading. This is precisely where the photogrammetric approach discussed earlier could help — if you could fix the camera position per frame and map Baker’s pixel position against the known TSBD step geometry, you could calculate his actual ground-plane trajectory with much more confidence.
Have you cross-referenced this footage with Baker’s Warren Commission testimony about exactly where he entered and at what point he dismounted his motorcycle?
I pasted this shot in.
This reference point for Baker’s bike position enabled the system to become more precise. And this also led to more evidence being fed to eliminate any doubt regarding Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelly being on the steps, Carl Edward Jones had moved towards the traffic sign. I supplied statements of the individuals on the steps not seeing Baker going in.
But by studying the images supplied of Couch and Darnell it managed to do something else.
It did not change its original analysis at all, it cemented it more.
In the end (for now):
From the frames we analyzed:
- Baker dismounts on Elm Street at the traffic signal
- Runs east along the Elm facade from the Houston corner (confirmed by Jones cross-reference)
- Veers to the right of the steps rather than directly up them
This actually sharpens the question considerably: Baker approaching from the west along the facade, toward the left/west side of the steps where Prayer Man stands, makes Baker’s failure to mention anyone in that position even harder to explain — not easier.
And the disappearance of Prayer Man from all subsequent photography is itself a significant research point — consistent with someone who re-entered the building very shortly after the Wiegman and Darnell cameras captured the entrance, which fits the Oswald identification argument precisely.
______________________________________________________________________
Update March 10 2026.
Today I added Baker’s WC testimony and Claude said:
Baker’s WC Testimony — Critical Analysis
His Motorcycle Parking Position
Baker is remarkably precise on this point: “Somewhere at this position here, which is approximately 10 feet from this signal light here on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston.”
And: “You stopped your motorcycle 10 feet to the east of that stoplight, is that correct? — That is correct, sir.”
And: “the distance from the place your motorcycle was parked to the doorway of the School Book Depository Building… Approximately 45 feet.”
This is the single most important measurement in the entire testimony for our analysis. Baker places his motorcycle 10 feet east of the traffic signal at Houston/Elm. This is precisely where we tracked him in the CNN frames — at the corner traffic signal. The 45 feet to the doorway is the distance he then had to cover eastward along the Elm facade — exactly the lateral trajectory the footage shows.
“Ran Right Straight to It”
Representative Boggs asked: “You were parked right in front of the Building?”
Baker replied: “Yes, sir; ran right straight to it.”
This is the key claim our frame analysis directly contradicts. The footage shows him running laterally along the facade, not straight to the entrance. Yet his own motorcycle parking position — 10 feet east of the signal, 45 feet from the doorway — means “ran right straight to it” would require a diagonal line across the pavement, not a perpendicular approach. The geometry of his own stated positions makes a straight run impossible unless he ran diagonally — which is exactly what the lateral facade tracking in the footage argues against.
The Vestibule Entry Contradiction
Baker states: “As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby… As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered.”
Yet his first DPD affidavit states: “As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were.”
These two versions are subtly different. The WC version has people going in with him. The first affidavit has people standing around already inside. This is consistent with Kamp’s finding that the building was already being re-entered by TSBD employees before Baker arrived — further evidence that his arrival was later than officially claimed.
Nobody Challenged Baker on the Steps
Senator Cooper asked: “Were there any officers that you saw near the School Book Depository when you went in?”
Baker: “There was an officer working traffic on that corner… J. W. Williams… but as I ran in this building, I found out that I was by myself. I didn’t know where anybody went.”
This is remarkable. Baker acknowledges he entered alone — and makes no mention whatsoever of Roy Truly being with him at the entrance steps. Truly supposedly met him there and led him in. Yet Baker’s account has Truly appearing inside the lobby seemingly from nowhere: “Some way, Mr. Truly got from my back to my front.”
This is consistent with Molina’s testimony that he saw Truly go in alone, and Lewis’s statement that if Baker had run in they wouldn’t have been there.
The Second Floor Encounter — Clothes Discrepancy
Baker describes the man in the lunchroom as wearing “a light brown jacket” — “hanging out to his side” in a “dim” room.
Yet he then says: “He looked like he did not have the same on” when he saw Oswald later at the police station.
This is a significant admission. If Baker genuinely encountered Oswald in the lunchroom and then saw him again hours later, the clothing discrepancy — noted by Baker himself — raises serious questions about the identification. Kamp addresses this in depth in the paper regarding what Oswald was actually wearing.
The Timing Admission
Baker states the re-enactment timings were “the minimum” and that on November 22nd “it took me a little longer.”
He also crucially states: “From the time I got off the motorcycle we walked the first time and then we kind of run the second time from the motorcycle on into the building.”
So during the official re-enactment they walked from the motorcycle to the building on the first run. Baker himself admits the real event took longer than either re-enactment. Combined with Shelley’s 3-4 minute estimate and the lateral approach shown in the footage, the timeline for Baker reaching the second floor becomes untenable for the encounter to have happened as described.
The Testimony Goes Off the Record Five Times
Kamp noted Baker’s testimony went off the record five times. Looking at the transcript this is confirmed at critical moments — including immediately after the contradiction about who said “let’s take the stairs” and during the discussion of Baker’s route through the building. These off-record discussions at precisely the most evidentially sensitive moments are deeply suspicious.
What Is Completely Absent
Most tellingly — in the entire testimony Baker makes absolutely no mention of anyone standing at the top of the TSBD entrance steps as he approached. No mention of the group of employees. No mention of Prayer Man. No mention of anyone in the recessed doorway area.
Given that Prayer Man is visible in the Wiegman film at the top left of the entrance — the side Baker was approaching from along the Elm facade — this silence is the most significant omission in the entire testimony.
20
JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
Below some pictures of the crowd at the JFK Lancer Conference while my presentation was on in Dallas on Nov 19th 2023.
With thanks to Peter Antill for the photographs.
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
- JFK Lancer 2023 Conference
And here is the video of it, added Nov 24th.
08
Prayer Man More Than A Fuzzy Picture

Prayer Man More Than A Fuzzy Picture Book Cover
So here it is, something I did not think I would be putting together, a book! Especially after finishing my papers just over a year ago, ‘blame’ Malcolm Blunt who said to me in June 2022 “You should do a book.” It meant more research and many more hours of work, which enabled me to conclude on some things I had not thought thought of, like the fingerprints, palm prints and above all the connection between the rifle and Lee Oswald on Nov 22nd.
That editing and finalising the book was going to be such a slog (10 weeks) and that stressful was unbeknown to me, but hey I am an experience richer. Same goes with publishing it thru Amazon, which was virgin territory as well.
I hope you enjoy it, like the ones who have ordered it already!
29
Important to Hold That Man by Jerry D. Rose May 1986
Once in a blue moon you come across a great article. From The Third Decade; a magazine that has published some of the finest articles in JFK Assassination research. This article below by publisher Jerry D. Rose is no exception. And the reason for me to bring this up is because it falls nicely inside my remit but it is also a great way to compare it with my own work. And Rose does a terrific job. The parts where Truly had stated to the WC he had not seen Oswald after the assassination which of course makes no sense when the second floor lunch room encounter allegedly happened within 90 seconds after the shots had been fired. Rose’s remarks following up on Bill Shelley stating to Roy Truly that he did not see Lee Oswald are simply priceless.
Fritz’s movements and actions from the T.S.B.D. and to the D.P.D. are thoroughly questioned, but his pit stop at Bill Decker’s office is sadly missing from those paragraphs. All this makes Will Fritz look even more suspicious
Oswald being paraded past his fellow employees had more of an effect than Rose describes. He notes discrepancies from a procedural p.o.v. But add on that those fellow employees were told that Oswald had killed a cop at that time which of course meant that these people were distancing themselves from Oswald as much as they possibly could.
A perfect example of someone being too close is Buell Frazier who got it in the neck from early evening onwards from the D.P.D. that day. Joe Molina a worthy second.
The yellow marker (grey on these pages) and pen annotations are from Harry Livingstone whose archive I have been digitising this past year and a bit.
Do read!
08
Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei 1970
Howard Roffman wrote extensively with Harold Weisberg, but also with Richard Bernabei. I have managed to gotten hold of quite a bit of material myself after contacting his archive in Kingston and I also know that Denis Morissette went there and he sent me quite a few pages as well. I still have to go through all this. While browsing through the folder I came across this letter from 1970 that I gotten hold off in 2016.
It basically discusses the Couch film and Marrion Baker. Roffman did extensive research in the relation between the Couch film and Marrion Baker’s run almost 50 years ago. He also brings Gloria Calvery, Joe Molina and other T.S.B.D. employees’ statements in the fold and uses his common sense as most of his observations still stand today. Cool read.
- Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei – 1
- Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei – 2
- Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei – 3
29
Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton on the steps of the T.S.B.D.
There are a couple of things that I recently came across and am pretty sure the riddle of Sanders and Stanton step positions is solved. But first the statements by Pauline Sanders.
Is it not odd that she states in her Nov 24th statement that she did not see Oswald in the lobby that remarkis as significant as Sean Murphy’s find of Roy Truly saying in his Nov 22nd F.B.I. statement “They saw no one there” once allegedly arriving with Baker in the vestibule/lobby, when at the same time we can see in Darnell several people preceding them going up those stairs. The only reason for putting this in their statements is trying to refute Prayer Man’s or better yet Oswald’s presence, near the front door. Take Carolyn Arnold’s first F.B.I. statement, the one that got deep sixed, into consideration as well!
According to Sanders’ statements on Nov 24th 1963 and March 18th 1964 she said that she stood nearest the door and on the top step, but that is only partially true.
The top landing would have been way to cramped with Shelley and Molina occupying that eastern side already. Plus we know Frazier and Lewis stood inside the doorway. And I doubt she would stand behind Shelley and Molina, same goes for Sarah Stanton. The width of the eastern or the western side of the steps would allow for two people to stand next to each other and not more. There was no reason to cram next to each other as there was plenty of room to spread out. Here is a picture from the W.C. and two drawings taken by the F.B.I. shortly after the assassination for comparison.
- Front steps T.S.B.D. Click to enlarge. Source: Mary Ferrell
- T.S.B.D. front steps drawing 1963. Thanks to Gary Murr. Click to enlarge.
- T.S.B.D. building and front steps drawing. Dec. 1963. Thanks to Gary Murr. Click to elnarge
Let’s move on to the Wiegman and Darnell films, we know who said that they stood on the steps. The following women were there: Maddie Reese, Ruth Dean, Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton. Dean and Reese have been identified.
We find Pauline Sanders in Wiegman she stands on the 3rd or 4th step. I posted this shot at the Education forum in August 2018.
Careful study of the Wiegman frame shows that next to Sanders is someone with blond hair and a white (or any other light coloured) outfit, you can barely see her but she cuts into Sanders on her left side, so for us that is on the right side. She is partially hidden by the east end of the wall and due to the angle Wiegman is filming from, he is not filming the steps straight on.
Pauline Sanders also said in her statements she stood next to Sarah Stanton, she made no mention of anyone else. That gives us an even better idea who to look for in these pix.
In the time period between Wiegman and Darnell (10-15 seconds) Sarah Stanton moved slightly more inwards and Pauline Sanders has moved up to the landing. This is because of Lovelady and Shelley leaving the steps right after the final shot. Otis Williams went inside and Joe Molina moving more centre on the landing therefor creating a gap on the east end of the steps/landing. Sanders could have wanted to get a better view down Elm St. after the shooting and going up a few steps would have helped a bit.
Also consider Buell Frazier who only appears in Darnell and cannot be seen at all in Wiegman, and even Roy Lewis who is starting to appear behind Frazier, again no sign of him in Wiegman.
In Darnell, 10-15 seconds after the shooting she is seen on the landing. Andrej Stancak found her, but that section of the film shows her only in or or two frames. She went more upstairs compared to the Wiegman sequence and that could be because she stepped up to get a better view down Elm.

Darnell frame of the TSBD steps occupants. Sarah Stanton a short heavy set blonde woman is pointed out as such. Click to enlarge.
The women on the steps in the Wiegman and Darnell films are now all accounted for. Sarah Stanton is exactly standing where she said she was and all this was confirmed by Frazier.
Buell Wesley Frazier also confirms in some videos that Sarah Stanton was standing to his left, as per her own statement on the East side of the steps along with Pauline Sanders.
At 18:25.
At 53:30 Gary Mack, in a 2002 interview with Buell Wesley Frazier for the Sixth Floor Museum, specifically asks him, to his right or left and he points and says left!
In another interview at 06:02, Frazier who uses both his hands indicates only with his left hand outwards.
At 53:00 in the Gary Mack interview of Buell Frazier he refers to a lady (most likely Stanton, standing to his left, meaning East on the top of the steps.
And then in a third interview at 18:25.
And now we have a slightly better copy of te Darnell film, which shows the only short, heavy set blonde woman to Frazier’s left and it is game over and the Death of Prayer Woman. Doyle will foam at his mouth and will try and lie his way out of this, but Prayer Woman is dead….
Updated Dec 16 2021.
More: Sarah Stanton.


































































































