Business as usual or meet the lone gunman(UA-66627984-1)

Bill Shelley TSBD

Important to Hold That Man by Jerry D. Rose May 1986

Important to Hold That Man by Jerry D. Rose May 1986

 

Once in a blue moon you come across a great article. From The Third Decade; a magazine that has published some of the finest articles in JFK Assassination research. This article below by publisher Jerry D. Rose is no exception. And the reason for me to bring this up is because it falls nicely inside my remit but it is also a great way to compare it with my own work. And Rose does a terrific job. The parts where Truly had stated to the WC he had not seen Oswald after the assassination which of course makes no sense when the second floor lunch room encounter allegedly happened within 90 seconds after the shots had been fired. Rose’s remarks following up on Bill Shelley stating to Roy Truly that he did not see Lee Oswald are simply priceless.

Fritz’s movements and actions from the T.S.B.D. and to the D.P.D. are thoroughly questioned, but his pit stop at Bill Decker’s office is sadly missing from those paragraphs. All this makes Will Fritz look even more suspicious

Oswald being paraded past his fellow employees had more of an effect than Rose describes. He notes discrepancies from a procedural p.o.v. But add on that those fellow employees were told that Oswald had killed a cop at that time which of course meant that these people were distancing themselves from Oswald as much as they possibly could.

A perfect example of someone being too close is Buell Frazier who got it in the neck from early evening onwards from the D.P.D. that day. Joe Molina a worthy second.

The yellow marker (grey on these pages) and pen annotations are from Harry Livingstone whose archive I have been digitising this past year and a bit.

Do read!

Click to enlarge.

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There were ten women on the fourth floor when it went down

There were ten women on the fourth floor when it went down.

 

From my up and coming paper Anatomy of the T.S.B.D.

 

Updated with a new title, a little text and some pictures on Jan 5th.

I knew that Victoria Adams’ descent down the back stairs of the T.S.B.D. was key to the assassination puzzle especially when Oswald was supposedly to go down those same steps “escaping” from the building at about the same time. The ladies had watched among other fourth floor employees the motorcade turn the corner in front of the building on to Elm St. Then they heard the shots fired at the limousine. Adams and Styles almost immediately left the window to go down the back stairs, make their way towards the railroad yard, and upon arrival they were told to go back where they came from, which they did thru the front doors of the T.S.B.D.

The first one who drew my attention to this was Oliver Stone, who brought this segment up during the Garrison trial in the movie.

Victoria Adams’ and Sandra Styles’ descent re-enactment for the film J.F.K. Click to enlarge.

If there is anyone who researched Victoria Adams’ and Sandra Styles’ descent from the fourth floor to the railroad yard and back into the front of the T.S.B.D. better than anyone else  it is Barry Earnest. His book The Girl On The Stairs: The Search for a Missing Witness to the JFK Assassination  led me to focus more on the T.S.B.D. and its employees. I read it in 2011 and it has remained one of my favourite books on the assassination.

From his research we know that.

  1. Victoria Adams did go through her W.C. statement and applied corrections even though the document ends with her stating she waivers her signature. The ‘corrected’ statement is being held much longer under lock and key than the first version without any corrections.
  2. She accused the W.C. of inserting the Lovelady & Shelley encounter in her testimony. She described the person she encountered after arriving on the first floor as a tall black man. This was independently corroborated by Sandra Styles who knew Shelley and Lovelady and was sure it wasn’t them who they met. The so called Adams & Styles – Lovelady & Shelley encounter on the first floor is a fugezi to undermine the timing of the ladies’ descent. It shows Jim “I don’t recall” Leavelle of the D.P.D. the maker of this report as a fabricator, who placed the misleading statement inside that report from Feb 1964. Obviously Leavelle is responsible but the decision to do this comes from higher up obviously.
  3. The Martha J. Stroud document Ernest found at the archives in Washington in 1999 confirms Adams’ corrections to her statement, and also states that Dorothy Garner saw the girls leave before the police officer came up to the fourth floor. Garner’s  real statement or anything besides the Stroud letter leading to it has disappeared.
  4. The W.C. discredited Adams’ story. by disbelieving her, nor did it really investigate further. But the W.C. did more to discredit Victoria Adams and it did that by minimising any attention towards the fourth floor.

While reading up about the other T.S.B.D. employees present on the fourth and fifth floors something else becomes apparent. The fourth floor was filled with ladies looking out through the south side windows.

Victoria Adams. Source: Barry Ernest.

Sandra Styles-Baylor Uni, Waco-1962

Elsie Dorman. Source: Life Magazine.

Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.

Judyth Louise McCully.

Avery Davis. Source E-Yearbook.com.

Mary Hollies. Source: E-Yearbook.com. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.

Ruth Nelson. Source Ancestry Family Tree. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.

Yola Hopson 1945. Source E-Yearbook.com. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.

Betty Alice Foster. Source E-Yearbook.com. Thanks to Linda Giovanna Zambanini.

Think about it. Ten people on the fourth floor when it all went down. Some of them could have easily confirmed when Adams and Styles left. But that is something the Warren Commission, D.P.D., F.B.I. and the Secret Service completely reneged on.

Weaver Polaroid. Click to enlarge.

Even though Avery Davis claimed to be on the front steps, she is not recognised in either the Wiegman and Darnell films nor did any other person name her. Davis named Judyth McCully as the person she was on the steps with. McCully’s initial F.B.I. statement states that she was on the fourth floor while it all went down which then got changed to the front steps. Judyth McCully’s daughter told me that this was done at the behest of the F.B.I.

So if I do not know any better then efforts were made to look the fourth floor as a non event as much as possible with moving some witnesses away so original witness statements could not be corroborated.

Think about it, there were 10 people on the fourth floor. Some of them stood a few meters away from each other. Adams’ and Styles descent was the kryptonite to the  Oswald ‘escape’.

Then there are the men from the 5th floor and especially Jarman, Norman and Williams. I have made a spreadsheet with all three workers’ answers from every statement they have given and that are available. Download it from HERE.

From left to right: James Earl Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams and Harold Norman in the Tom Dillard photo.. Click to enlarge.

The fourth floor stop is in some statements not to be found, but in the W.C. testimony from Bonnie Ray Williams he states: They paused for one minute on the 4th floor as there were all these women looking out. Then there is James Jarman who during his W.C. testimony disowns the fourth floor stop even after asked about it by John J McCloy by saying I believe we went all the way.

The fourth floor was a direct threat to Oswald’s so called escape, so they thought. Until of course the Prayer Man surfaced and it has transpired Oswald was nowhere near the 6th floor when the shots were fired…

 

Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei 1970

Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei 1970

 

Howard Roffman wrote extensively with Harold Weisberg, but also with Richard Bernabei. I have managed to gotten hold of quite a bit of material myself after contacting his archive in Kingston and I also know that Denis Morissette went there and he sent me quite a few pages as well. I still have to go through all this. While browsing through the folder I came across this letter from 1970 that I gotten hold off in 2016.

It basically discusses the Couch film and Marrion Baker. Roffman did extensive research in the relation between the Couch film and Marrion Baker’s run almost 50 years ago. He also brings Gloria Calvery, Joe Molina and other T.S.B.D. employees’ statements in the fold and uses his common sense as most of his observations still stand today. Cool read.

Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton on the steps of the T.S.B.D.

Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton on the steps of the T.S.B.D.

 

There are a couple of things that I recently came across and am pretty sure the riddle of Sanders and Stanton step positions is solved. But first the statements by Pauline Sanders.

F.B.I. statement by Pauline Sanders, Nov 24th 1963. Click to enlarge.

Is it not odd that she states in her Nov 24th statement that she did not see Oswald in the lobby that to me is as significant as Sean Murphy’s find of Roy Truly saying  in his Nov 22nd F.B.I. statement “They saw no one there” once allegedly arriving with Baker in the vestibule/lobby, when at the same time we can see in Darnell several people preceding them going up those stairs. The only reason for putting this in their statements is trying to refute Prayer Man’s or better yet Oswald’s presence,  near the front door. Take Carolyn Arnold’s first F.B.I. statement, the one that got deep sixed, into consideration as well!

CE 1381. F.B.I. statement by Pauline Sanders March 18th 1964. Click to enlarge.

According to Sanders’ statements on Nov 24th 1963 and March 18th 1964 she said that she stood nearest the door and on the top step, but that is only partially true.

The top landing would have been way to cramped with Shelley and Molina occupying that eastern side already. Plus we know Frazier and Lewis stood inside the doorway. And I doubt she would stand behind Shelley and Molina, same goes for Sarah Stanton.  The width of the eastern or the western side of the steps would allow for two people to stand next to each other and not more. There was no reason to cram next to each other as there was plenty of room to spread out. Here is a picture from the W.C. and two drawings taken by the F.B.I. shortly after the assassination for comparison.

Let’s move on to the Wiegman and Darnell films, we know who said that they stood on the steps. The following women were there: Maddie Reese, Ruth Dean, Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton. Dean and Reese have been identified.

I have also pointed out before that several other women joined them on those steps, be it at the bottom. They are not there in Wiegman but can be seen in Darnell, they are trying to get themselves a somewhat elevated view to see what is happening but also be close to safety. Although one could question that when there supposedly was a gunman in the building. But that aside.

Five women have joined the steps in the Jimmy Darnell film. Click to enlarge.

 

We find Pauline Sanders in Wiegman she stands on the 3rd or 4th step. I posted this shot at the Education forum in August 2018.

Pauline Sanders in the Dave Wiegman film. Click to enlarge. Thanks to John Woods.

Careful study of the Wiegman frame shows that next to Sanders is someone with blond hair and a white (or any other light coloured) outfit, you can barely see her but she cuts into Sanders on her left side, so for us that is on the right side. She is partially hidden by the east end of the wall and due to the angle Wiegman is filming from, he is not filming the steps dead on.

Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton in the Dave Wiegman film (Kamp/Ledoux version). Click to enlarge.

Pauline Sanders also said in her statements she stood next to Sarah Stanton, she made no mention of anyone else. That gives us an even better idea who to look for in these pix.

In the time period between Wiegman and Darnell (10-15 seconds) Sarah Stanton moved slightly more inwards and Pauline Sanders has moved up to the landing. This is because of Lovelady and Shelley leaving the steps right after the final shot. Otis Williams went inside and Joe Molina moving more centre on the landing therefor creating a gap on the east end of the steps/landing. Sanders could have wanted to get a better view down Elm St. after the shooting and going up a few steps would have helped a bit.

Also consider Buell Frazier who only appears in Darnell and cannot be seen at all in Wiegman, and even Roy Lewis who is starting to appear behind Frazier, again no sign of him in Wiegman.

In Darnell, 10-15 seconds after the shooting she is seen on the landing. Andrej Stancak  found her.

 

 

The women on the steps in the Wiegman and Darnell films are now all accounted for.

The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter in a Nutshell.

The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter in a Nutshell.

 

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald on Nov 23rd. Click to enlarge.

 

Click HERE (27.3MB) to see the entire paper and be able to refer to the pages.

A PDF of this summary can be downloaded from here.

By: Bart Kamp.

  • The Darnell film ends with Baker just about to step up to the curb. He is at least 10 ft. away from the bottom steps when the camera swerves back. Page 29.
  • Baker does not appear to head for the stairs but to the south east corner of the TSBD building, his WC testimony at first shows he had no idea where exactly the shots had come from. Page 18.
  • Baker uses pigeons lifting off from the roof as an indicator that the shots came from the T.S.B.D., others have seen the same pigeons lift off and fly in different locations. Pages 24-25.
  • Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Edward Lewis and Joe Molina who stand on the landing of the steps and in front of the door, see no helmeted officer going past them. Molina sees only Truly go in, and even states in his report by B.L. Senkel that Truly stayed on the first floor. Pages 41-43.
  • In April 1964, while being interviewed by Roy Bode, Truly states that he and Baker talked to Howard Brennan before they went in. That by itself contradicts Truly and Baker’s tale of storming up the T.S.B.D. stairs. Furthermore he states Oswald was sighted while leaving the lunch room. Page 40.
  • Foreman Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady, who have been recorded in film footage and supported with their statements as well, left immediately after the shots had been fired. Their W.C. testimony contradicts this by them claiming that they stayed on those steps for a few minutes, then left the steps and looked back and see Baker and Truly go in the building. In an interview with George and Patricia Nash in 1964 Shelley puts Baker’s and Truly’s entry even at 5-6 minutes. This kills the timing. Pages 33-39.
  • Pauline Sanders is the only person who makes a mention of a helmeted officer going in, but she makes no mention of Truly. She stood on the east side of the steps. Page 44.
  • Baker’s handwritten and typed up statements from the late afternoon of Nov. 22nd mention no lunch room encounter at all. And the only encounter he did have was on the 3rd or 4th Page 74.
  • In that first statement Baker says that when arriving in the vestibule he sees several people standing around and asks where the stairs are (which are to the right once inside the vestibule) and cannot be missed by anyone after which Truly supposedly steps forward (Truly states they had run up the steps together!) and leads him to the back of the building. Roy Truly’s F.B.I. statement from Nov. 22nd states they saw no one there” Page 46.
  • Marvin Johnson, who takes Baker’s affidavit later that afternoon states that Baker pointed out Oswald, while being interrogated by Will Fritz, as the man he apprehended. None of the interrogation reports by either the D.P.D., F.B.I. and S.S. support this part of Johnson’s statement. Page 74.
  • Johnson’s statement also states that Baker searched L.H.O, a physical contact which has not been substantiated by anyone else either. The official story during the confrontation is that Truly vouched for Oswald being a worker after which they continue their ascend to the top. Nor did Baker recognise him in a line-up as is stated. There is no record of this at all and this is something Baker denied happening during his W.C. testimony. Page 78.
  • Eddie Piper states during his W.C. testimony that in a few minutes someone came in the building, “and I looked up and it was the boss man and a policeman or someone.” That contradicts the timing element of Baker and Truly who said they stormed in within seconds after the shooting, also consider that the re-enactments were timed at 75 and 90 seconds. Page 49.
  • Piper gets called in again for a second time during his W.C. testimony, when asked whether Truly was with a white helmeted officer Piper says “I don’t think so.” Pages 50 and 51.
  • Truly makes no mention about any elevators in his statement from the 22nd. Page 52.
  • Marvin Johnson’s statement on taking Baker’s affidavit makes no mention of any elevators either. Page 57.
  • Roy Truly and Marrion Baker contradict each other about who actually said ‘let’s go up the stairs’ after ‘noticing’ the elevators are hung on the 5th Pages 54 and 55.
  • Jack Dougherty’s W.C. testimony states that he took the West elevator down from the fifth to the first floor immediately after hearing a shot. He does not hear Roy Truly yell up the shaft. Page 56.
  • Sandra Styles, many years after the fact, states that Victoria Adams told her offhandedly that she saw the elevator cables move while they made their descent from the fourth floor. Page 57.
  • While Truly and Baker make their alleged ascend up the steps there is more activity being recorded of another employee who use the very same stairs. Otis Williams makes his way from the front stairs to the 4th Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles descended almost immediately after the final shot from the 4th floor. Page 57.
  • Dorothy Ann Garner, in a Martha J. Stroud document had stated that she saw Truly and a police officer come up after the girls, Adams and Styles, had gone down. Page 57.
  • Truly walking ahead of Baker is not recorded until early Dec 1963 by the S.S. That same week and during the months after Roy Truly does 3 interviews, contradicting himself saying that Baker was ahead of him. Pages 61-64.
  • The lunch room encounter can be questioned by Baker’s position upon arriving on the second floor and the viewing angle through the closed door. Roy Truly passed it before Baker and admitted the door was closed as well. Pages 65-70.
  • The door with a self-closing mechanism takes 5 seconds to open and close, there was not a time difference that long after ascending one floor between Baker and Truly. Pages 76-77.
  • During the encounter Oswald is placed at different locations inside the second floor lunch room. Pages 86-88.
  • The second floor lunch room, and the rest of that floor was off limits to manual workers, unless they purchased a coke for their lunch. The manual workers had their lunch ether outside or downstairs on the first floor in the domino room. Page 135.
  • Mrs Robert Reid’s statement and testimony cannot be believed due to the timing aspect, she saw Oswald wearing a white t-shirt contradicting Baker and the presence of Geneva Hine inside the very same office, yet neither noticed each other. Pages 88-91.
  • Geneva Hine was alone in the 2nd floor office from 12:25 to 12:35. Page 90.
  • Oswald’s coke starts as an insertion into Mrs. Reid’s hand written statement. Page 94.
  • Marrion Baker mentions the coke in his hand written Sept. 1964 statement, only for it to be stricken out. In March that very same year, during his W.C. testimony, he said that he saw nothing in his hands. Page 93.
  • The Revill list contradicts Oswald’s departure after 3 minutes. It also shows that certain employees were not recorded on it and some arrived back at the T.S.B.D. much later.  Pages 112-113.
  • Oswald was sighted by Sarah Stanton before the motorcade arrived, near the stairs (which are most likely the front stairs) and asked whether he was going to go out for lunch! She noticed him holding a soda. Page 137.
  • Various law enforcement officers and T.S.B.D. employees make mention of an encounter on the first floor or at the front door in many different newspaper reports on the 22nd and 23rd. Pages 113-121.
  • The first mention of a second floor lunch room encounter in the press on Nov 23rd is at 13:50 hours by Peggy Simpson of the A.P.
  • Carolyn Arnold at first sees Oswald in the vestibule in her Nov. 26th statement, only for her to retract this roughly 15 years later. The retraction can be doubted due to her statement of going back for a glass of water and seeing him in the lunch room instead. Also statements from her co-workers who stated they left the building together. Pages 121-135.
  • Oswald’s alibi is systematically destroyed during his interrogations by D.P.D. Captain Will Fritz and F.B.I. agents James Hosty and James Bookhout. In a new found document, a draft document by James Hosty, states that Oswald had a coke for his lunch and then went outside the watch the P. parade.  Pages 136-146.
  • The re-enactment and its timing aspect of the 2FLRE, have never been confirmed by anyone seeing it actually happening outside and inside the T.S.B.D.. Pages 147-159.

 

COPYRIGHT © Bart Kamp.

The Other Witnesses by George and Patricia Nash

Today I came across an article that I had read about when I read “Into The Nightmare” by Joe McBride. The article in question is called:  The other Witnesses by George and Patricia Nash for the The New  Leader in 1964 (pages 105 – 109). This article largely looks into the Tippit murder and points out other witnesses which were never properly interviewed nor brought forward. In this article at the end the second floor lunch room encounter is brought up as well and more importantly that Bill Shelley told them that Truly and Baker entered the T.S.B.D. five or six minutes after the shooting. This of course destroys the W.C. timings once again, which were set at 75-90 seconds and of course Oswald’ departure in 3 minutes after the deed.

I’d love to see George and Patricia Nash’s archives.

The sun plane

The last week there has been some debate about an old myth: The Sun Plane in the Prayer Man images.

Originally brought up by Brian Doyle in his many word salad postings a couple of years ago, and in that whole period Doyle has never brought forward how it is supposed to look or give a rough estimation of it. So like a flat earther he ended up posting “his findings” on the net and everybody else would have to believe his “research” on his say so.

This tactic doesn’t work very well for Doyle, people are smarter than that. And yes Doyle = Cinque, there is no doubt about that.

Then there was Barry Pollard who posted  an image of Billy Lovelady going down the steps in the Wiegman film and claimed that Lovelady wore a black jacket as he could not explain the shadow on the left half on Lovelady’s (2) torso.

Yet with Bill Shelley (3) in the background it could be that Lovelady walks exactly halfway in the shadow and the sun. Be aware that this is an enlargement of a small detail of a 16 mm film shot with a wide angle lens. The steps occupants look much closer together due to these factors.

Prayer Man = 1, Billy Lovelady = 2 and Bill Shelley = 3. Click pic to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

Take a look at the shadow of the people at the front and the sharp angle it is coming at, granted they may not stand exactly parallel to the people on the steps, but for a rough indication this ought to show that the shadow is much longer than originally discussed.

I can pinpoint it even more precise.

Take a look at Buell Wesley Frazier in the Darnell film. And you will see the shadow of the top left corner of the wall (just underneath the TSBD sign) creates a shadow of a 90 degree-ish angle on him, his head is in the shade no less. Above Frazier and JoeMolina is a glass pane and that is partially illuminated and so is the glass on the far eastern side. This illumination is from a reflection of the eastern wall.

Click pic. to enlarge.

Look at Maddie Reese in both images, in Wiegman standing southwesterly below Lovelady in Wiegman and Frazier in Darnell.

Click to enlarge.

So now anyone drawing the TSBD steps in 3D is able to pinpoint how the sun plane is actually going correctly as so far no one has done this as it ought to be. The shadow ends up way more Eastwards than has been shown so far. And honestly I trust the photos more. Furthermore the three people that have started to make 3d drawings of the steps of the T.S.B.D. put the shadowline in as a 2d object, whereas the shadow would resemble some sort of half a sphere instead.

Thanks to Brian Kelshaw.

Thanks to Brian Kelshaw.

You are welcome Brian Doyle!

Gifts from Uncle Malcolm Part 4

Interesting set. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for sending me these.

Shanklin to Sorrels and handing over a list of photographers around the crime scene. The list is missing of course.

Gordon Shanklin to Forrest Sorrells. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Doorway Man discussed with Bill Shelley and Roy Truly.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 31 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 431 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

 

Oswald’s description over the police radio, most interesting doc.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.

Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.