Oct
17
Almost 4 years ago, March 2015 to be precise, Carmine Savastano had a go at trying to bring Prayer Man down on his blog named after his book Two Princes and a King. Neither me or any other ROKCer was aware of this post. The article was updated last in Dec 2017.
Carmine departed from ROKC shortly before he wrote this, or was kicked off the forum, whoever you wish to believe. The core members had enough of his constant arguing about evidence. I was not really there when all this happened, I did not seriously partake until Jan. 2015 myself.
Now having read Savastano’s blog post just now I can honestly say that his work or better yet his understanding of Prayer Man is not very good, as a matter of fact I rate it as high as Doyle’s comprehension of the case. The difference is that whenever Doyle is in a tight spot he uses Harvey and Lee to get himself out of it. How convenient it is to use Oswald’s ‘double’ when it becomes impossible to clear yourself out of the hole you have dug for yourself. But that is a different story. Let’s stick with the subject matter which is this blog post by him.
I will quote some from the article written by Carmine Savastano and write my comments down below in bold. Just wish to add that this is by no means a personal attack, it is a rebuttal to some of the arguments that are not only used by him, but by others as well who seem to lack to see the big picture and only use some of the evidence that is around.
1/The “Prayer Man” is similar to many other supposed “breakthroughs” coined by various people in the time since President Kennedy’s death. These include the Doorway Man, the Badge Man, the Black Dog Man, the Red Bandana Man, and the Black Hole Man, among many others.
I do not even know of the last two individuals, but to compare Prayer Man with Badge Man and Doorway Man is already a huge mistake.
Doorway Man was already cleared up the same evening, as the F.B.I. went to Billy Lovelady and he picked himself out from the table sized enlargement of the Altgens 6 Photograph. And Badge Man is not supported by anything but a colouring in, you could colour in a a pink elephant and try and make people believe that this is what is standing behind the picket fence. Looking at a very large b&w scan of the Moorman Polaroid does not show anything of a human outline at all.
Prayer Man is supported by evidence, be it circumstantial, but it is not something that should be disregarded. All this can be found in the interrogations reports and testimonies from Will Fritz, Jim Hosty and Harry Dean Holmes. Something Savastano doesn’t even touch nor makes mention of.
2/No witness testimony in the immediate area supports Oswald’s presence and not a single witness identifies him in the area during the shots.
Almost correct (Carolyn Arnold’s statement), but what Savastano omits from his writings is:
The primary statements by Shelley and Lovelady i/e do not contain a word about Oswald at all, as they were taken before Oswald was taken in. Once they witnessed Oswald’s arrival at City Hall, he was brought in as a cop killer, not as the shooter of J.F.K. Now who in their right mind would associate themselves with a cop killer?
Nor did anyone mention the negro on the bottom of the steps, Carl Edward Jones or Joe Molina who stood next to Shelley and above Otis Williams. Only one person mentioned Joe Molina, and that was Victoria Adams, and that was after her descent from the 4th floor and being directed back to the T.S.B.D. by a police man.
At the same time not one witness standing on those steps during the shooting says who that Caucasian male actually is. That is troubling no?
And why should they, in those days anyone of non Caucasian build in Tx. was expected to shut up and not volunteer information (Carl Jones, Roy Lewis and Joe Molina).
The women? Same!
Frazier? He was 19 and got the scare of his life by being shoved a statement, for being a co-conspirator, in front of him to sign by ‘old reliable’ Will Fritz.
Lovelady? Got bailed out by Ochus Campbell (the vice-president of the T.S.B.D.) for a weapons charge he was going to be re-arrested for.
Shelley? Oswald’s foreman, why should he side with a commie sympathiser? A cop killer to boot. No thank you……
Plus why should they state were Oswald was at that time, they barely knew him and he was dead by the time quite a few of the T.S.B.D. workers were interviewed, and who would want the weight of local and national law enforcement agencies on their back for a dead commie sympathiser who had also killed a cop!
3/ This person could be from a number of businesses in the vicinity, a passerby, a tourist, any number of people besides Lee Harvey Oswald.
This is about the biggest mistake Savastano can make, not only by disregarding this person as anyone but Oswald and also avoiding using his common sense, but also for the fact that it is no stranger either as was documented in March of 1964, as per CE 1381. If you want evidence Carmine, the stranger scenario is killed off with that document.
4/ While a conspiracy is eminently feasible and supported by substantial evidence, that does not justify the “Prayer Man” claim.
A very strange claim to make, especially when Savastano fails to submit such evidence himself, pot kettle…..
5/ Additional feasibly contending evidence includes the verbal statement of Lee Harvey Oswald himself.Some suggest we cannot trust any of the evidence, which is ridiculous, for how else can we prove anything? If most evidence available indicates something, it is more than likely to have occurred. Consider the amount of work and people required to suppress this idea. It would be a large undertaking of little value, since the matter still proves nothing of substance. It is not a smoking gun in my view, but smoke and mirrors.
Here Savastano makes another whopper of a faux pas. Not only does he ascribe to some of Oswald’s public statements in a video by Len Osanic, which are not timed in any way btw, but will be by me soon enough in my next paper “Anatomy Of Oswald’s Interrogations”.
But he also produces a very incomplete body of work. What Carmine should have done for starters is introduce the statements made by Fritz, Hosty, Bookhout and Holmes and also their notes and testimony as to Oswald’s whereabouts and more importantly about he destruction of Oswald’s alibi. Something I did in my first paper “Anatomy of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter” From thereon he could have concluded that the lunch room encounter was an utter fake event and from thereon investigate where Oswald actually was during that period, of shooting J.F.K.
Aug
27
Alfred D. Hodge was a gun store owner and also owned a bar next door to that store and was called late in the evening by Will Fritz to come down to City Hall on the 3rd floor to his office to have a look at the Carcano rifle and the pistol supposedly both owned by Oswald.
The other thing that may be of interest to others is Hodge’s elevator journey with two detectives and Jack Ruby, but I am not going further into this. Read more about this HERE.
What got my interest was this passage from Hodge’s W.C. testimony.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was in Captain Fritz’ office when you went in first?
Mr. HODGE. Well—
Mr. HUBERT. Was Oswald there?
Mr. HODGE. I didn’t see Oswald. I have never seen him except on TV, but Captain Fritz has one office I don’t know which office is his, but the one on the left has a glass window in it, and when I went in this hallway, out in the hallway where all the TV cameras was, there was another hallway, and Captain Fritz waved at me–he seen me through this glass and there was several people in there with him, and I went on in a little office not quite as big as this and sat down.
But in his HSCA testimony (thanks to Malcolm Blunt) he describes three (!) sightings, in a very short period, of Oswald being interrogated by Fritz on his own.
Fritz on his own? Was that not the thing, that Fritz couldn’t do this as various F.B.I., Secret Service, A.T.F. and other law enforcement agents were constantly present while Oswald was being interrogated. Quite a few other D.P.D. personnel made mention of the fact that Fritz was hindered by this and could not get Oswald to confess. Personally I doubt he would have ever ‘cracked’ Oswald. But this HSCA statement smells……
Jul
24
About 6 weeks ago I was approached by S.T. Patrick of Midnight Writer News to do an interview for his show after a few weeks we finally managed to do this. Listening back to it one month after I did it I have to say I did not do too bad. I am very critical of myself when I do these things, and the good thing is that after listening to 50 mins of it I haven’t turned it off yet!
I am talking about the research done and of course, the 2nd floor lunch room encounter, T.S.B.D., Dallas P.D. and Prayer Man all pass the avenue during this interview.
A thoroughly enjoyable experience.
Thank you S.T. Patrick.
Go HERE to hear the interview and read up about it on the Midnight Writer News Website.
During the interview I mistakenly refer to me as having received the JFK Lancer Pioneer Award, which is wrong it was the New Frontier Award actually. Apologies for the mix-up.
Jun
25
Interesting set. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for sending me these.
Shanklin to Sorrels and handing over a list of photographers around the crime scene. The list is missing of course.
Gordon Shanklin to Forrest Sorrells. Click pic to enlarge.
Doorway Man discussed with Bill Shelley and Roy Truly.
Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 31 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Doorway man statements by Bill Shelley and Roy Truly Jan 431 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Oswald’s description over the police radio, most interesting doc.
Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
Gordon Shanklin memo regarding Oswald’s description over the police radio and DPD involvement. Jan 9 1964. Click pic to enlarge.
May
20
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt I have been handed a document on Wesley Liebeler, who was one of the senior lawyers of the W.C. And although this document has been described at 22november1963.org.uk , there is no active link to the document itself. Liebeler is ploughing through and raises his questions, offers feedback and proposes amendments to Chapter IV of the Warren Report dated Sept. 6th 1964. Compared to the date that the Warren Report was issued to L.B.J. on Sept 24th 1964. Not that much notice was given to Liebeler’s remarks since not a lot changed in those 18 days.
Ladies and gents have a good read, as some of his observations are golden.
What is mentioned by Wesley Liebeler are: the rifle, the finger/palm prints on the boxes, Buell Wesley Frazier, the description of Oswald after his departure from the T.S.B.D., Amos Euins, questioning the 2nd floor encounter, Victoria Adams’ descent, the bus ride, the line-ups, the revolver, the arrest at the T.T., Johnny Calvin Brewer, Walker shooting, Marin Oswald, the rifle scope and its firing tests.
Even though the document is mentioned at the site above, you only get to read a summarisation, whereas now you have the whole thing at your own leisure.
I love the ending of the document: “I forgot to mention that some question might be raised when the public discovers that there was only one eyewitness to the Tippit killing, i/e one person who saw him kill him. All the rest only saw subsequent events. Mrs. Markham is nicely buried there, but I predict not for long.”
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
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- Wesley Liebeler on Chapter IV of the Warren Report.
May
10
On Fri the 27th the missus and I made our way to Canterbury to attend the 16th DPUK Canterbury seminar. I had a two hour presentation to give on the Saturday and also had scheduled two interviews, one with Malcolm Blunt and the other with John Newman on Sunday. Besides that I managed to get Jim DiEugenio to do his “JFK and his foreign policy” talk. We had some rain but other than that it was ok. Barry Keane and I shared a flat in the centre of Canterbury and we joined the rest of the posse (about a dozen at that time) in the pub for a couple of pints and from thereon we made our way to Pinocchio’s an Italian restaurant where Dealey Plaza UK has been going on the evening before the seminar ever since organising it in in Canterbury.
I myself left a bit earlier than the rest and managed to get really drunk at the flat in the time span of one hour, it took me by surprise to say the least. Waking up the next morning and not remembering how I got to bed at all was already the first indicator of a raging hangover that lasted pretty much all day. And it was not just me, Barry Keane who had the honours of doing the very first talk felt it too ;) But we managed to pull through, there was simply too much at stake. I myself felt like Richard Nixon with that sweaty patch just above my lips and had to wipe it several times while the booze was making its way out through my pores.
Professional indeed….
The whole weekend was great fun and obviously flew by rather quick. I enjoyed the entire program and could I do 4-5 days of this? Easy!
I would like to thank Stuart Galloway, DPUK’s outgoing secretary, for setting the seminar up like he has been doing for the past decade, he did a marvellous job. Thank you Stuart for everything you have done!
Thanks to all the speakers as well for sharing your time and knowledge to us.
The audio of the above interview of Malcolm can also be heard at the The Lone Gunman Podcast with an intro by yours truly.
The John Newman video will be inserted in a few days. But the Lone Gunman Podcast of the audio of this telephone interview can be listened to HERE.
Apr
08
On March 24th Gayle Nix Jackson was kind enough to share her time with about fifteen DPUK members above in the Flying Horse pub. We let her do most of the talking, about her new and above all very good book Pieces of the Puzzle: An Anthology. I recommend it especially for those that read books with a keen interest in the case.
We started with about ten of us and by the end of the talk that had grown into fifteen. As you will be able to hear from the videos we had quite a few laughs, and with the audio difficulties considered we managed to pull of a largely unscripted chat that was of great fun to us all.
Stuart Galloway was kind enough to film the screen of our talk and I took a few quick shots with my iPhone shown below. Enjoy as much as we had two weeks ago.
Finally I will not be posting much until just before Canterbury. I have two Q&As to prepare and sort my own two hour presentation out, and there is loads that needs to be done for it. Busy few weeks ahead. I hope to show a batch of videos of Canterbury in May.
Mar
18
Living History with Karen Westbrook Scranton
Updated March 25th 2018, March 20th 2019 and Dec 8th 2019.
Recently the 6th Floor Museum uploaded a video of Stephen Fagin’s interview with Karen Westbrook Scranton. She worked for a small publisher Southwestern Company alongside with Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks, Carol Ann Reed and Carol Hughes on the second floor office of the T.S.B.D. after she graduated from high school.
At about 07:15 it is shown that her desk inside the second floor office is in the southeast corner. But this wrong, Room 203 is on the Western wall, what is shown is the 2nd floor office of the TSBD office and not the Southwestern offices.
Karen Westbrook’s desk was in the far right upper corner of this pic. Click to enlarge.
At 11:10 it starts to go really wrong. She states that after seeing the photograph of the fake vestibule that that door was always open. The door in question was part of a unit built to keep the noise out and had a door closing attachment fixed at the top of the door, which you can see below in a picture at the top left of the door on the inside. What she refers to as the door of the lunch room is the door after that, which I am showing next in the gallery below. Plus a close-up showing that that lunch room door is open. Imagine that outer door being open all that time then Baker’s and Truly’s remarks with the door being closed and that Baker caught a glimpse through the glass of the door can be completely discounted then. Some nerdy shizzle going on here folks….. But I do not find this suspicious merely human error and it being a long time ago.
At 12:10 Stephen Fagin makes the mistake of referring to the 2nd floor lunch room as to the Domino room, the Domino room was downstairs on the first floor and not the second. It was called that way as they tended to play a lot of domino games in there. It was the labourers’ lunch room.
Then shortly after that she drops a massive bomb shell, and states that Oswald had his lunch in there in the corner by himself. So that would be the first table coming in on the right on the photo below.
Click on pic to enlarge.
That is quite a thing to say as many others said that Oswald always had his lunch in the Domino Room which was on 1st. Then also if Oswald was in the lunch room at 12:15 as stated by Carolyn Arnold in the 70’s then others could have easily confirmed that. Reid especially as she left later at about 12:20. Molina had lunch and could have seen him there as well, but he made no mention of it, nor did anyone else. Plus the lunch room on the second floor was off limits to workers, since they had the Domino Room to have lunch in, on the first floor.It is quite possible it is true that she must have seen him on the odd occasion getting coke, but sitting down and having lunch no way.
At 13:00 she mentions that Lee was always reading strange looking material. Pamphlet style material. Again I have to take this with a massive grain of salt.
After that she tells about Altgens 6, and confirms that it was Billy Lovelady, and that the guy was looking a bit like Lee, but it wasn’t him. “It became a terrible joke in the office.”
At 18:10 Karen Westbrook Scranton IDs herself in the Zapruder film. And also pointed out that redheaded Gloria Calvery was standing right beside her. There was no doubt in her mind. Finally an ID of Gloria Calvery! She then says that she believes the person next to Gloria Calvery is Carol Ann Reed and that is wrong. It is Stella Mae Jacob, who was a (Native) Indian.
Click to enlarge.
With this ID, it can be said that running woman in Couch and Darnell is not Gloria Calvery. Furthermore she cannot be compared with any of the women going up on the west side of the stairs in Darnell either. Gloria Calvery’s son seems to dispute that the woman with the red hair is his mum. Stephen Fagin relays this, but does not elaborate any further, nor does anyone else
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Add on March 25th.
In this film still, by James Darnell. We see Jakob, Holt and Simmons within a few minutes after the shooting.
Stella Mae Jakob, Gloria Holt and Sharron Simmons in the Darnell film. Click to enlarge.
If these three women are the same then Westbrook was wrong about the ID of the person standing next to Gloria Calvery as being her. The darker skinned person is Stella Mae Jacob, who describes herself as of Indian descent (in this context that means Native American). If this is true, then there is an even bigger problem with regards the timing of their return, according to Jacob’s statement in CE1381 she did not even make it back inside the T.S.B.D. and left for home instead! That by itself is interesting with regards to the so called missing persons and the roll call by Roy Truly. There were lots of people missing, LOTS!
Here are all the women involved in this chapter. But they are from different companies.
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- Karan Hicks.
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- Gloria Little/Calvery.
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- Karen Westbrook.
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- Stella Mae Jacob.
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- Gloria Jean Holt 1962.
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- Gloria Jean Holt 1963.
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- Sharron Simmons/Nelson.
From the women that are in that group according to their statements in CE1381 I can relay.
Gloria Little/Calvery stated she was with: Carol Reed, Karen Westbrook and Karan Hicks. After getting back in the office she made her way back down near the front entrance, but was told she could not leave.
Karan Hicks stated she was with: Gloria Calvery, Karen Westbrook and Carol Reed. After making her way back in the office, like Calvery, she made her way back down near the front entrance, but was told she could not leave.
Gloria Jean Holt was with Stella Mae Jacob and Sharron Simmons. She did not manage to get back inside the T.S.B.D. and subsequently went home.
Stella Mae Jacob was accompanied by Sharron Nelson/Simmons and Gloria Jean Holt. She also did not manage to get back inside the T.S.B.D. and subsequently went home as well.
Sharron Nelson/Simmons was with Gloria Jean Holt and Stella Mae Jacob. She did not return to the T.S.B.D. either.
Carol Reed stated she was with Karan Hicks, Karen Westbrook and Gloria Calvery.
This then translates into the following graphic.
Click to enlarge.
We can see Stella Mae Jacob and Gloria Holt embracing each other in the Harry Cabluck picture from the Dallas Times Herald below. You can also notice the two ladies on the right are lady 4 and 5 to the left of the Stemmons freeway sign in the Z film still.
Stella Mae Jacob and either Gloria Calvery or Gloria Jean Holt embracing in a Harry Cabluck/D.T.H. pic. From Robin Unger’s jfkassassinationgallery.com. Click to enlarge.
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Then at 29:17 she starts to relay the conversation she apparently had with Mrs. Robert Reid, the clerical supervisor. The most astonishing bit is she had that convo after the assassination, on the very same day, while people were locked-in the office by the police and they were milling around inside it. Mrs Reid said Lee came in with a coke in his hand and asked “what’s all that excitement all about.” And she answered “OMG someone shot the President.” And Karen Westbrook Scranton then says “Whether that’s true and fits in with the timeline of the story. that was Mrs Reid’s story, seeing Lee after the assassination.” Think about it, Lee asked what the commotion was about? Mrs Reid described Lee’s manner as almost non-responsive, he had said something that she could not understand. And she said all this to everyone inside the office within an hour after the assassination? Molina could have confirmed that, but he did not, nor did anyone else. Especially Geneva Hine would not relay that, since she was alone in the office between 12:25-12:35! And she saw Reid, Stanton, Reed, Molina and others come in about 25 mins after.
At 33:40 she tells the story of Marguerite Oswald coming in and causing a scene and being removed from the building. A situation that was described by Roy Truly as well. He even said that she showed Altgens 6 and claimed that it was Lee on the front page picture.
She is convinced Lee did it, and has of course taken in certain pro-Warren Commission scenarios to support that opinion. What she says is informative, but there are some mistakes and also some statements that are hard to believe.
Update Dec 8th 2019.
Karen Westbrook Scranton has donated a set of photos which were taken inside the office of Southwestern Publishing Company to the Sixth Floor Museum. I have enhanced these photographs with more colour and sharpness.
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- Southwestern Publishing Company Dec 1963.
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- Southwestern Publishing Company Dec 1963.
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- Southwestern Publishing Company Dec 1963.
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- Southwestern Publishing Company Dec 1963.
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- Southwestern Publishing Company Dec 1963.
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- Southwestern Publishing Company Dec 1963.
