Jan
16
The most stubborn plonker in the village is at it again. Releasing a set of essays relating to the 2nd floor lunch room encounter. Obviously the wishful thinking and assumptions just pile up like there is no tomorrow. I already tore his previous work a new one, in short it was rubbish!
Let’s have a look at a few bits.
From the “Lunchroom” essay: Their paths should have intersected, but they didn’t. It is safe to conclude that Adams & Styles passed by Truly & Baker while they were in the lunchroom.
If Richard Gilbride had paid attention to the W.C. testimony of Roy Truly then he would have noticed that Roy Truly said that he leaned in, meaning his feet were still on the landing and that he peeked through, allegedly, while the door was held open! Furthermore has Gilbride ever paid attention to the size of the actual space between the landing and the lunch room door?
Second floor lunch room and corridor entry. Click to enlarge.
This is so small, no wonder Truly said he leaned in as it would have made no sense in a physical way for three people to stand there, even with Oswald being inside the lunch room for two or three feet, according to Baker.
Anything but with extraordinary confidence Richard!
2. On page 3 Richard Gilbride gives Adams 8 seconds to clear each floor going down (based on what?), whereas 5 would be more accurate, the amount of steps are not that many for anyone, whether in heels or not, to clear in 8 seconds unless they were doing it on one foot, they were rushing down those few stairs. That by itself proves to be already problematic for his timings overall.
On page 4 the first floor encounter is being described, the one that was attributed to Shelley and Lovelady and the girls, and which was false and made up by Jim Leavelle in Feb. 1964 when he interviewed Victoria Adams.
The man she and Styles encounter is in all likelihood Eddie Piper (“A tall black man”). Eddie Piper who stated during his W.C. in two sessions, as the first one did not nail things down enough to a satisfactory result for the W.C. Piper said during his W.C. testimony that in a few minutes someone came in the building, “and I looked up and it was the boss man and a policeman or someone.” That contradicts the timing element of Baker and Truly who said they stormed in within seconds after the shooting already, and consider that the re-enactments were timed at 75 and 90 seconds.
Piper gets called in again for a second time during his W.C. testimony, when asked whether Truly was with a white helmeted officer Piper says “I don’t think so.”
On page 5 Gilbride makes a catastrophic mistake by assuming Baker races up those stairs in the Couch and Darnell film. Not only does the Couch film swerve to the left and away far quicker to Elm St and not even capture the front stairs. The Darnell film in its final moment before swerving to the left shows Baker at best in front of the pavement which is at least 10 feet away from the bottom step of the TSBD steps. He assumes (which he does a little too often) that Baker is on course for the steps whereas nothing could be further removed from the truth. Marrion Baker is veering to the right and was on his way between the TSBD and the DalTex building as he was not certain where the shots had come from. His W.C. testimony shows clearly he was not certain at all where the shots came from.
Gilbride omits that Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Edward Lewis and Joe Molina who stand on the landing of the steps and in front of the door, see no helmeted officer going past them. Molina sees only Truly go in, and even states in his report by B.L. Senkel that Truly stayed on the first floor!
In April 1964, while being interviewed by Roy Bode, Truly states that he and Baker talked to Howard Brennan before they went in. That by itself contradicts Truly and Baker’s tale of storming up the T.S.B.D. stairs as well.
On page 6 and 7 it turns into a shambles and Gilbride brings Dorothy Garner’s statement through the Stroud document in play in conjunction with the descent of Adams and Styles and the ascent of Baker and Truly. Since Gilbride is dead wrong with these 2 and 2 crossing each other on the second floor it can be stated with great certainty that his calculations are way off and simply not true again.
“This heavy-duty door helped to muffle sounds from the landing and stairwell, so that people in the lunchroom could eat in relative peace and quiet. Truly, Baker and Oswald were in an intense, confrontational situation just inside the lunchroom door frame. Even if they heard some noise from those high heels, it was only high heels- irrelevant to the gestalt- and they quickly forgot about it. ” This phrase on the bottom of page 7, in its entirety is baseless speculation.
On page 8 the assumptions continue, but I cannot be bothered to dive into every cherry in this terrible piece. And furthermore Sean Murpy has left this ‘scene’ so he cannot defend his actions, I only defend mine. Only to mention that he mentions SS inspector Kelley being present at 16:45 at Oswald’s second interrogation which he was not, he did not arrive until hours later in the evening.
Enough on this one.
Finally what is objectionable is the lack of mentioning one foot note or source in this essay. This is something he lambasted me for, missing the odd bit. Yet here we have ten pages without one referral.
Nice work……..eh no.
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From Furthering The Lunchroom Evidence, his latest attempt….
On page 1 Gilbride makes the mistake that Thomas Kelley was present during the interrogations with Oswald while Baker was there. This is wrong as Kelley did not appear until Oswald’s 3rd at just before 8 PM. Kelley said in his WC testimony he arrived in the evening from Kentucky and not in the afternoon. Nor is Kelley listed as a participant of the 2nd interrogation. Sorrels and Lawson were there though.
Nor was Hosty present, Hosty was only there during the first interrogation.
Then some of the sorriest speculations are drummed up for poor ol’ Marrion Baker that the reader ought to stop right there and then, and ask for a bucket.
“Baker’s train of thought interrupted- which led to a couple of vague descriptions in the affidavit when describing his location within the unfamiliar Book Depository. Baker was
suddenly immersed in a situation where any accusatory statements he made could be misinterpreted adversely, later in a legal setting. And he apparently reacted with police
discipline and remained quiet about what he recognized. The less said, the better. But he was quite mindful of this omission. And as soon as his affidavit was typed up he
brought it into Marvin Johnson’s office. And confided to Johnson that this suspect was the same guy he’d encountered down at the Depository. He’d even “started to search the man.”
I am actually accusing Gilbride of lying and this part by itself shows that Richard Gilbride has not learned one iota from his exercise over a year ago which I rightly nailed to the cross then.
The BS continues with Baker recognising Oswald and exclaiming that he was the man encountered as such. There is no proof for this besides Johnson’s report, who even mentions that Baker frisked him which he did not, and that Baker picked him out in a line-up. Which he did not.
If Baker, as according to Johnson had recognised Oswald as that man encountered o the 3rd or 4th floor then this would have been brought up during those interrogation right there and then! And Oswald would have had a much harder time there and then, but no….the 2nd floor encounter did not become public near noon on the 23rd. At least after two more interrogations!!!!
The speculations continue until the end of page 6 and it is quite painful how someone can actually write this stuff based on his own deluded assumptions which are nothing but a terrible hoax.
That Gilbride has made a pact with one of the worst internet deniers in this scene by the name of Brian Doyle is nothing short of a surprise, and he even brings up one of the worst interviews ever done by Brian Doyle and the grand kids of Sarah Stanton. This interview is known for Brian Doyle leading the ladies during this interview. Doyle also shoots himself in the foot with the hearsay answer that Sarah Stanton asked Oswald was going to go out for lunch and watch the parade and at that time was holding a soda. That is before lunch! Therefore killing of any lunch room encounter, any encounter with Mrs Robert Reid after the Baker & Truly encounter as well. Yet here is Richard Gilbride using this crap for his own benefit.
What Gilbride does very well is to leave the embarrassing part out of Brian Doyle making a complete mess of himself by trying to put Sarah Stanton in the position of Prayer Man wearing a wig for professional reasons, yes dear reader a real mind boggle. Wearing a wig for pro reasons……just so she can be seen as Prayer Man.
The massive speculation by Gilbride and the lying by Brian Doyle at various points just to stitch his own version of the evidence together has turned this whole thing into a massive joke with these two disinfo clowns.
Oct
17
Almost 4 years ago, March 2015 to be precise, Carmine Savastano had a go at trying to bring Prayer Man down on his blog named after his book Two Princes and a King. Neither me or any other ROKCer was aware of this post. The article was updated last in Dec 2017.
Carmine departed from ROKC shortly before he wrote this, or was kicked off the forum, whoever you wish to believe. The core members had enough of his constant arguing about evidence. I was not really there when all this happened, I did not seriously partake until Jan. 2015 myself.
Now having read Savastano’s blog post just now I can honestly say that his work or better yet his understanding of Prayer Man is not very good, as a matter of fact I rate it as high as Doyle’s comprehension of the case. The difference is that whenever Doyle is in a tight spot he uses Harvey and Lee to get himself out of it. How convenient it is to use Oswald’s ‘double’ when it becomes impossible to clear yourself out of the hole you have dug for yourself. But that is a different story. Let’s stick with the subject matter which is this blog post by him.
I will quote some from the article written by Carmine Savastano and write my comments down below in bold. Just wish to add that this is by no means a personal attack, it is a rebuttal to some of the arguments that are not only used by him, but by others as well who seem to lack to see the big picture and only use some of the evidence that is around.
1/The “Prayer Man” is similar to many other supposed “breakthroughs” coined by various people in the time since President Kennedy’s death. These include the Doorway Man, the Badge Man, the Black Dog Man, the Red Bandana Man, and the Black Hole Man, among many others.
I do not even know of the last two individuals, but to compare Prayer Man with Badge Man and Doorway Man is already a huge mistake.
Doorway Man was already cleared up the same evening, as the F.B.I. went to Billy Lovelady and he picked himself out from the table sized enlargement of the Altgens 6 Photograph. And Badge Man is not supported by anything but a colouring in, you could colour in a a pink elephant and try and make people believe that this is what is standing behind the picket fence. Looking at a very large b&w scan of the Moorman Polaroid does not show anything of a human outline at all.
Prayer Man is supported by evidence, be it circumstantial, but it is not something that should be disregarded. All this can be found in the interrogations reports and testimonies from Will Fritz, Jim Hosty and Harry Dean Holmes. Something Savastano doesn’t even touch nor makes mention of.
2/No witness testimony in the immediate area supports Oswald’s presence and not a single witness identifies him in the area during the shots.
Almost correct (Carolyn Arnold’s statement), but what Savastano omits from his writings is:
The primary statements by Shelley and Lovelady i/e do not contain a word about Oswald at all, as they were taken before Oswald was taken in. Once they witnessed Oswald’s arrival at City Hall, he was brought in as a cop killer, not as the shooter of J.F.K. Now who in their right mind would associate themselves with a cop killer?
Nor did anyone mention the negro on the bottom of the steps, Carl Edward Jones or Joe Molina who stood next to Shelley and above Otis Williams. Only one person mentioned Joe Molina, and that was Victoria Adams, and that was after her descent from the 4th floor and being directed back to the T.S.B.D. by a police man.
At the same time not one witness standing on those steps during the shooting says who that Caucasian male actually is. That is troubling no?
And why should they, in those days anyone of non Caucasian build in Tx. was expected to shut up and not volunteer information (Carl Jones, Roy Lewis and Joe Molina).
The women? Same!
Frazier? He was 19 and got the scare of his life by being shoved a statement, for being a co-conspirator, in front of him to sign by ‘old reliable’ Will Fritz.
Lovelady? Got bailed out by Ochus Campbell (the vice-president of the T.S.B.D.) for a weapons charge he was going to be re-arrested for.
Shelley? Oswald’s foreman, why should he side with a commie sympathiser? A cop killer to boot. No thank you……
Plus why should they state were Oswald was at that time, they barely knew him and he was dead by the time quite a few of the T.S.B.D. workers were interviewed, and who would want the weight of local and national law enforcement agencies on their back for a dead commie sympathiser who had also killed a cop!
3/ This person could be from a number of businesses in the vicinity, a passerby, a tourist, any number of people besides Lee Harvey Oswald.
This is about the biggest mistake Savastano can make, not only by disregarding this person as anyone but Oswald and also avoiding using his common sense, but also for the fact that it is no stranger either as was documented in March of 1964, as per CE 1381. If you want evidence Carmine, the stranger scenario is killed off with that document.
4/ While a conspiracy is eminently feasible and supported by substantial evidence, that does not justify the “Prayer Man” claim.
A very strange claim to make, especially when Savastano fails to submit such evidence himself, pot kettle…..
5/ Additional feasibly contending evidence includes the verbal statement of Lee Harvey Oswald himself.Some suggest we cannot trust any of the evidence, which is ridiculous, for how else can we prove anything? If most evidence available indicates something, it is more than likely to have occurred. Consider the amount of work and people required to suppress this idea. It would be a large undertaking of little value, since the matter still proves nothing of substance. It is not a smoking gun in my view, but smoke and mirrors.
Here Savastano makes another whopper of a faux pas. Not only does he ascribe to some of Oswald’s public statements in a video by Len Osanic, which are not timed in any way btw, but will be by me soon enough in my next paper “Anatomy Of Oswald’s Interrogations”.
But he also produces a very incomplete body of work. What Carmine should have done for starters is introduce the statements made by Fritz, Hosty, Bookhout and Holmes and also their notes and testimony as to Oswald’s whereabouts and more importantly about he destruction of Oswald’s alibi. Something I did in my first paper “Anatomy of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter” From thereon he could have concluded that the lunch room encounter was an utter fake event and from thereon investigate where Oswald actually was during that period, of shooting J.F.K.
Dec
22
Billy Nolan Lovelady and Bill Shelly did leave the steps almost immediately after the shots were fired.
This post has been amended on Jan 29th, Feb 14th, Feb 16th, Oct. 14th 2016. and Aug. 29th 2017.
And Oct. 30th and Nov 7th 2018.
I am going to put an end to this debate whether Lovelady and Shelly stayed on the steps as they claimed in their Warren Commission testimonies and to which certain people subscribe to for some obscure reason, there is just plenty to refute this rubbish assertion.
Photo evidence.
For starters, take a look at the Gerda Dunckel gifs below and check Lovelady’s shirt in the very first few frames and also check out the large still I snagged from PBS Breaking The News, click to enlarge, yes that shirt is checkered, compare it to other garments of a lighter colour or the polka dot coat which do not smudge due to motion and quality loss. Then look at Shelly, with his black suit and his facial and hair features. For reference of who we are talking about I suggest you check out Billy Lovelady’s and Bill Shelley’s pages I have made which contain plenty of photographs of these two individuals. Both pages are still under construction but there is plenty to see from a visual point of view.
Click on pic. to enlarge.
Upon looking at the image by Couch we see that Shelly wears a black jacket and that Lovelady’s shirt has black horizontal stripes in it. I will place a close-up below. This is not the end result of sharpening and cannot be construed as a digital artefact. Click to enlarge the shot above and you will see that these stripes are nowhere else to be seen on this image. The polka dot coat stays as is, the camouflage/dot coat as well. And even in the light toned skirts/coats there are no such markings to be seen.
Here is a collage of Lovelady’s shirt in many settings.
Click pic. to enlarge.
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Add on photographs Oct 14th 2016.
This ROKC Scan of a Couch film still at first looks very harsh and doesn’t overall have much information, but it does happen to show a lot regarding our illustrious duo. This print comes from the Richard E. Sprague Collection from the National Archives.
Click on pic to enlarge.
I applied various ways of sharpening with overall decent results to be absolutely positive that these two are Shelley and Lovelady. Lovelady’s shirt is a dead give away and so is the shape of Shelley, compare that with the collage below.
Click on pic to enlarge.
Click on pic to enlarge.
Thanks to Ed Ledoux. Lovelady’s bald patch and Shelley’s white sports shirt collar are recognisable as well.
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Now let’s have a look at the paperwork such as Lovelady’s and Shelley’s statements and testimonies.
Billy Lovelady
Lovelady’s very first handwritten statement on Nov 22nd 1963 makes no mention of Oswald even after he is paraded past him.
But that very same statement also makes no mention of them (him and Shelley) leaving the steps either. He actually states: ”After it was over we went back into the building and went to work” With the ‘went to work’ bit stricken through. This bit is omitted from the typed up and signed report. See the first two documents below.
But then Billy Lovelady states in the FBI report by Robert M. Barrett from the same day as his affidavit to the DPD: ”immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelly started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away west on Elm Street under the triple underpass. He and Shelley then returned to the Texas School Book Depository Building”. During this time he saw no one run out of the building or saw no suspicious individuals.
Lovelady also mentions in document CE 1381, from March 1964, the following: “I recall that following the shooting, I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy’s car had stopped William Shelley and myself stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side of the building”.
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- Handwritten Affidavit Billy Lovelady Nov 22nd 1963
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- Typed and signed Affidavit Billy Lovelady Nov 22nd 1963
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- FBI Report Billy Nolan Lovelady Nov 22 1963
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- CE 1381 March 8 1964 FBI Statement Billy Lovelady
Add on Aug. 29th 2017:
Then Lovelady talked to a reporter of The Houston Post on the 22nd as well. Lovelady describes W.B. Barnett who ran in front of them towards the rail road yards. Which corresponds with the still photograph of the Couch film.
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- Houston Post Nov 23 details 1
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- Houston Post Nov 23 details 2
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- Houston Post Nov 23
Joe Marshall Smith, Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady in the Couch film. Click photo to enlarge.
Bill Shelley.
Shelly (trying to enter the police vehicle) leaves for the DPD station at 13:30 with Danny Arce Garcia and Bonnie Ray Williams as seen below.
He states in his very first D.P.D. affidavit on Nov. 22nd “I ran across the street to a corner of the park. I ran into a girl crying and she said the president had been shot. This girls name is Gloria Calvery. Who is an employee of this same building. I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened.” This first statement, like Lovelady’s, contains no reference to Lee Harvey Oswald either. I also value this first statement for the inclusion of him running across after the shots were fired.
FBI Statement of Bill Shelly March 18th 1964 CE 1381: “Immediately following the shooting Billy Lovelady and I left…….”
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- 1st affidavit William Hoyt Shelly Nov 22 1963
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- 2nd affidavit William Hoyt Shelly Nov 22 1963
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- 1st affidavit William Hoyt Shelly Nov 22 1963
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- 2nd affidavit William Hoyt Shelly Nov 22 1963
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- Bill Shelly FBI Statement March 18 1964
The primary statements of these two contradict their WC testimonies, which no one from the WC bothered to ask about while they were giving their testimony.
Warren Commission Testimonies.
Now the only thing that I find true of their WC testimonies is the fact that they left the steps together.
Their timings are way off and Weisberg addressed their rubbish 50 years ago already. Go to his archive and read about it: William Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
In Shelly’s WC testimony things are given a nice twist, they stay there for a minute, they have Gloria Calvery coming up the steps doing her bit which contradicts his first statement. The island gets a mention here. Truly and Baker are seen after 3 or 4 minutes! And then they leave and then are re-entering through the back of the building.
Mr. BALL. Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY. Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said “The President has been shot” and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL. Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. SHELLEY. That little, old side street runs in front of our building and Elm Street.
Mr. BALL. It dead ends?
Mr. SHELLEY. There’s concrete between the two streets.
Mr. BALL. Elm Street dead ends there just beyond the building, doesn’t it?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, that’s also Elm that goes under the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. That is Elm that goes under the triple underpass?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, where they split.
Mr. BALL. You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL. How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY. We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL. The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL. While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. FALL. Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL. She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Going to watch the rest of the parade were you?
Mr. SHFZLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The Vice President hadn’t gone by, had he, by your place?
Mr. SHELLEY. I don’t know. I didn’t recognize him. I did recognize Mr. Kennedy and his suntan I had been hearing about.
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY. We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL. And Truly? Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see them go into the building7
Mr. SHELLEY. So; we didn’t watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin’ to go in.
Mr. BALL. Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, they were moving, yes.
Mr. BAL.L. Were they running?
Mr. SHELLEY. That, I couldn’t swear to; there were so many people around.
Mr. BALL. What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY. We walked on down to the flrst railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL. At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes ; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
Mr. BILL. When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY. I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. SHELLEY. He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. BALL. Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Who else did you see?
Nr. SHELLEY. That’s all we saw immediately.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. SHELLEY. I saw her that day but I don’t remember where I saw her.
Mr. BALL. You don’t remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. SHELLEY. It was after we entered the building.
Mr. BALL. You think you did see her after you entered the building?
Nr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir; I thought it was on the fourth floor awhile after that.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Illr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in; I don’t know whether they were Secret Service or FBI or what but they wanted me to take them upstairs, so we went up and started searching the various floors.
Billy Lovelady fantasises even some more during his Warren Commission testimony.
I have added some notes in bold.
Mr. BALL – Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yeah.
Mr. BALL – When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY – Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or–she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn’t know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.
Mr. BALL – First of all, let’s get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY – Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL – Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY – Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes—
Mr. BALL – You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – Did you see anything there?
Mr. LOVELADY – No, sir; well, just people running.
Mr. BALL – That’s all?
Mr. LOVELADY – And hollerin.
Mr. BALL – How did you happen to go down there?
Mr. LOVELADY – I don’t know, because everybody was running from that way and naturally, I guess—
Mr. BALL – They were running from that way or toward that way?
Mr. LOVELADY – Toward that way; everybody thought it was coming from that direction.
Mr. BALL – By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY – As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.
Mr. BALL – How many steps?
Mr. LOVELADY – Twenty, 25.
Mr. BALL – Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes. At no time in the Couch film is Lovelady seen looking back.
Mr. BALL – Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY – Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL – Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY – Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL – And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, sir; sure did.
Mr. BALL – You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. LOVELADY – Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr. BALL – Three minutes is a long time.
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes, it’s—I say approximately; I can’t say because I don’t have a watch; it could.
Mr. BALL – Had people started to run?
Mr. LOVELADY – Well, I couldn’t say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn’t looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps–see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps.
Mr. BALL – Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – Did you run or walk?
Mr. LOVELADY – Medium trotting or fast walk.
Mr. BALL – A fast walk?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes.
Mr. BALL – How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?
Mr. LOVELADY – Somebody hollered and I looked.
Mr. BALL – You turned around and looked?
Mr. LOVELADY – Yes. Again at no time in the Couch film is Lovelady seen looking back or responding to any hollering.
Lovelady then also destroys Vicky Adams’ testimony from a time perspective with his WC testimony, so the Commission can claim she was wrong.
It has become obvious that Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were lying while being interviewed by Joseph Ball all to mess with the timings perspective with regards Oswald and them going back to one of the rear entrances since that would also show how long it took before the building was actually secured. The TSBD exits after the shooting resembled Swiss cheese for many minutes after the shooting.
These statements and the Warren Commission testimonies by Bill Shelly and Billy Lovelady show plenty that they did leave the steps almost immediately after the shooting and that they cannot be accounted on the steps for in the Jimmy Darnell film, besides walking westwards and being seen doing so in a better capture in the Malcolm Couch film.
Buell Frazier during his H.S.C.A. testimony (tape 2) is specifically asked by the interviewer when Lovelady and Shelley left the steps and to everyone’s amazement (including mine) he states that this happened before the motorcade made the turn on to to Elm St.
Subsequently he is confronted with the Altgens 6 photo which shows Lovelady standing on the steps while Kennedy is shot in the throat, so after the turn on Elm St.
Detailed crop of the HSCA version of Altgens 6 with Lovelady on the left.. Source Mary Ferrell.
In closing.
Shelly was Oswald’s supervisor and worked directly under Roy Truly.
Lovelady had a weapons charge dangling of which Ochus Campbell (Roy Truly’s boss) paid off the remainder of Lovelady’s fine as he was being re-arrested for non-payment.
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- FBI Report Jan 1963 on Billy Nolan Lovelady and the sale of guns.
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- FBI Report Jan 1963 on Billy Nolan Lovelady and the sale of guns.
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- FBI Report Jan 1963 on Billy Nolan Lovelady and the sale of guns.
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- FBI Report Jan 1963 on Billy Nolan Lovelady and the sale of guns.
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- FBI Report Jan 1963 on Billy Nolan Lovelady and the sale of guns.
You wonder where these men’s loyalties lie? Not with someone who only joined a month before the big event and who later on it turned out to be living in Russia for almost three years
There is quite a bit pointing to that Shelly and Lovelady left the steps to go west of the TSBD almost immediately after the shots had been fired. In fact Lovelady makes his way down the steps before Wiegman exited the car and that was before the head shot.
From the footage that is around with Lovelady in it. It shows that he was an inquisitive person as he manoeuvred himself up and down on those steps to get a better view of the limo.
Dec
20
The movie has been out and about just over three weeks and has had about 1,000 hits so far, which is more than I thought I would have so this amount has been a pleasant surprise.
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Stan Dane, and a few others did their best to gather as many likes, clicks or better yet viewings of the movie and the feedback has been extremely positive. I made a few mistakes such as misspelling two authors names, which is a massive screw up from my side, thanks to Ray Mitcham for pointing that out and this will be rectified for V2.
I have already applied some changes with regards media, Linda Giovanna Zambanini has been very helpful with identifying a few peeps and I myself have been lucky as well so there are more images to some of the peeps who are mentioned in the movie. The strange thing is that this quest to identify the people and the law enforcement personnel is only something from the past 3 years or so that online researchers started to dig into the identities of the peeps that were ‘involved’.
The overall goal with V2 is to make it all a bit more comprehensive and above all clearer for everyone to go through since it is quite a bit of data that needs to be absorbed. I myself think that the movie will be closer to two hours once the other bits have been added. The women will get their ‘say’: Vicky Adams, Sandra Styles, Carolyn Arnold, Geneva Hine are a few that will be featured. The interrogations of Oswald will get a huge redo. The intro will be changed as well. So in short V2 will be a complete new movie.
And then after V2, the book and this website will get my full attention, the site already gets sporadic page updates, but at some point the big one will happen and all text and media will be added on en masse, when that will be is still a bit of an enigma but no doubt I’ll be shouting this of the roof tops once done.
The negative reactions I received were piss poor not one could refute the barrage of evidence that was used in conjunction with the media presented. They could only push their own ideas forward since that is the only thing they can believe in, instead of reading and above all studying all the evidence, zealots who will only believe what they see as true. Quite boring actually and not worth any further attention.
