Business as usual or meet the lone gunman(UA-66627984-1)

Marrion Baker DPD

Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei 1970

Howard Roffman to Richard Bernabei 1970

 

Howard Roffman wrote extensively with Harold Weisberg, but also with Richard Bernabei. I have managed to gotten hold of quite a bit of material myself after contacting his archive in Kingston and I also know that Denis Morissette went there and he sent me quite a few pages as well. I still have to go through all this. While browsing through the folder I came across this letter from 1970 that I gotten hold off in 2016.

It basically discusses the Couch film and Marrion Baker. Roffman did extensive research in the relation between the Couch film and Marrion Baker’s run almost 50 years ago. He also brings Gloria Calvery, Joe Molina and other T.S.B.D. employees’ statements in the fold and uses his common sense as most of his observations still stand today. Cool read.

Nat Pinkston and the snack room encounter

Nat Pinkston and the snack room encounter

 

Nat Pinkston from the F.B.I. took a statement of Roy Truly on Nov 22nd 1963. Pinkston can be seen as the co-creator of the Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter fakery.

In this document it shows that Pinkston is aware of Oswald’s statement that the only rifles he saw in the building were two days prior when Warren Caster popped round and showed the two rifles to Roy Truly and others. This matter was discussed during the first interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald.

What was also discussed is that Oswald got a coke for his lunch, and not after, but that got twisted somehow with the fairy tale below.

In my opinion the first and real attempt on making Oswald look guilty.

Nat Pinkston Nov 22 1963 FBI Report. Click to enlarge.

This and Roy Truly’s statement dictated on the 22nd and typed up on the 23rd are the first official statements attesting to an encounter in the snack room.

Roy Truly FBI Report Nov 22-23 1963. Click to enlarge.

 

There are a few more bits on Nat Pinkston at his page.

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for the Pinkston document.

Roy Truly document from NARA.

The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter in a Nutshell.

The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter in a Nutshell.

 

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald on Nov 23rd. Click to enlarge.

 

Click HERE (27.3MB) to see the entire paper and be able to refer to the pages.

A PDF of this summary can be downloaded from here.

By: Bart Kamp.

  • The Darnell film ends with Baker just about to step up to the curb. He is at least 10 ft. away from the bottom steps when the camera swerves back. Page 29.
  • Baker does not appear to head for the stairs but to the south east corner of the TSBD building, his WC testimony at first shows he had no idea where exactly the shots had come from. Page 18.
  • Baker uses pigeons lifting off from the roof as an indicator that the shots came from the T.S.B.D., others have seen the same pigeons lift off and fly in different locations. Pages 24-25.
  • Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Edward Lewis and Joe Molina who stand on the landing of the steps and in front of the door, see no helmeted officer going past them. Molina sees only Truly go in, and even states in his report by B.L. Senkel that Truly stayed on the first floor. Pages 41-43.
  • In April 1964, while being interviewed by Roy Bode, Truly states that he and Baker talked to Howard Brennan before they went in. That by itself contradicts Truly and Baker’s tale of storming up the T.S.B.D. stairs. Furthermore he states Oswald was sighted while leaving the lunch room. Page 40.
  • Foreman Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady, who have been recorded in film footage and supported with their statements as well, left immediately after the shots had been fired. Their W.C. testimony contradicts this by them claiming that they stayed on those steps for a few minutes, then left the steps and looked back and see Baker and Truly go in the building. In an interview with George and Patricia Nash in 1964 Shelley puts Baker’s and Truly’s entry even at 5-6 minutes. This kills the timing. Pages 33-39.
  • Pauline Sanders is the only person who makes a mention of a helmeted officer going in, but she makes no mention of Truly. She stood on the east side of the steps. Page 44.
  • Baker’s handwritten and typed up statements from the late afternoon of Nov. 22nd mention no lunch room encounter at all. And the only encounter he did have was on the 3rd or 4th Page 74.
  • In that first statement Baker says that when arriving in the vestibule he sees several people standing around and asks where the stairs are (which are to the right once inside the vestibule) and cannot be missed by anyone after which Truly supposedly steps forward (Truly states they had run up the steps together!) and leads him to the back of the building. Roy Truly’s F.B.I. statement from Nov. 22nd states they saw no one there” Page 46.
  • Marvin Johnson, who takes Baker’s affidavit later that afternoon states that Baker pointed out Oswald, while being interrogated by Will Fritz, as the man he apprehended. None of the interrogation reports by either the D.P.D., F.B.I. and S.S. support this part of Johnson’s statement. Page 74.
  • Johnson’s statement also states that Baker searched L.H.O, a physical contact which has not been substantiated by anyone else either. The official story during the confrontation is that Truly vouched for Oswald being a worker after which they continue their ascend to the top. Nor did Baker recognise him in a line-up as is stated. There is no record of this at all and this is something Baker denied happening during his W.C. testimony. Page 78.
  • Eddie Piper states during his W.C. testimony that in a few minutes someone came in the building, “and I looked up and it was the boss man and a policeman or someone.” That contradicts the timing element of Baker and Truly who said they stormed in within seconds after the shooting, also consider that the re-enactments were timed at 75 and 90 seconds. Page 49.
  • Piper gets called in again for a second time during his W.C. testimony, when asked whether Truly was with a white helmeted officer Piper says “I don’t think so.” Pages 50 and 51.
  • Truly makes no mention about any elevators in his statement from the 22nd. Page 52.
  • Marvin Johnson’s statement on taking Baker’s affidavit makes no mention of any elevators either. Page 57.
  • Roy Truly and Marrion Baker contradict each other about who actually said ‘let’s go up the stairs’ after ‘noticing’ the elevators are hung on the 5th Pages 54 and 55.
  • Jack Dougherty’s W.C. testimony states that he took the West elevator down from the fifth to the first floor immediately after hearing a shot. He does not hear Roy Truly yell up the shaft. Page 56.
  • Sandra Styles, many years after the fact, states that Victoria Adams told her offhandedly that she saw the elevator cables move while they made their descent from the fourth floor. Page 57.
  • While Truly and Baker make their alleged ascend up the steps there is more activity being recorded of another employee who use the very same stairs. Otis Williams makes his way from the front stairs to the 4th Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles descended almost immediately after the final shot from the 4th floor. Page 57.
  • Dorothy Ann Garner, in a Martha J. Stroud document had stated that she saw Truly and a police officer come up after the girls, Adams and Styles, had gone down. Page 57.
  • Truly walking ahead of Baker is not recorded until early Dec 1963 by the S.S. That same week and during the months after Roy Truly does 3 interviews, contradicting himself saying that Baker was ahead of him. Pages 61-64.
  • The lunch room encounter can be questioned by Baker’s position upon arriving on the second floor and the viewing angle through the closed door. Roy Truly passed it before Baker and admitted the door was closed as well. Pages 65-70.
  • The door with a self-closing mechanism takes 5 seconds to open and close, there was not a time difference that long after ascending one floor between Baker and Truly. Pages 76-77.
  • During the encounter Oswald is placed at different locations inside the second floor lunch room. Pages 86-88.
  • The second floor lunch room, and the rest of that floor was off limits to manual workers, unless they purchased a coke for their lunch. The manual workers had their lunch ether outside or downstairs on the first floor in the domino room. Page 135.
  • Mrs Robert Reid’s statement and testimony cannot be believed due to the timing aspect, she saw Oswald wearing a white t-shirt contradicting Baker and the presence of Geneva Hine inside the very same office, yet neither noticed each other. Pages 88-91.
  • Geneva Hine was alone in the 2nd floor office from 12:25 to 12:35. Page 90.
  • Oswald’s coke starts as an insertion into Mrs. Reid’s hand written statement. Page 94.
  • Marrion Baker mentions the coke in his hand written Sept. 1964 statement, only for it to be stricken out. In March that very same year, during his W.C. testimony, he said that he saw nothing in his hands. Page 93.
  • The Revill list contradicts Oswald’s departure after 3 minutes. It also shows that certain employees were not recorded on it and some arrived back at the T.S.B.D. much later.  Pages 112-113.
  • Oswald was sighted by Sarah Stanton before the motorcade arrived, near the stairs (which are most likely the front stairs) and asked whether he was going to go out for lunch! She noticed him holding a soda. Page 137.
  • Various law enforcement officers and T.S.B.D. employees make mention of an encounter on the first floor or at the front door in many different newspaper reports on the 22nd and 23rd. Pages 113-121.
  • The first mention of a second floor lunch room encounter in the press on Nov 23rd is at 13:50 hours by Peggy Simpson of the A.P.
  • Carolyn Arnold at first sees Oswald in the vestibule in her Nov. 26th statement, only for her to retract this roughly 15 years later. The retraction can be doubted due to her statement of going back for a glass of water and seeing him in the lunch room instead. Also statements from her co-workers who stated they left the building together. Pages 121-135.
  • Oswald’s alibi is systematically destroyed during his interrogations by D.P.D. Captain Will Fritz and F.B.I. agents James Hosty and James Bookhout. In a new found document, a draft document by James Hosty, states that Oswald had a coke for his lunch and then went outside the watch the P. parade.  Pages 136-146.
  • The re-enactment and its timing aspect of the 2FLRE, have never been confirmed by anyone seeing it actually happening outside and inside the T.S.B.D.. Pages 147-159.

 

COPYRIGHT © Bart Kamp.

The Other Witnesses by George and Patricia Nash

Today I came across an article that I had read about when I read “Into The Nightmare” by Joe McBride. The article in question is called:  The other Witnesses by George and Patricia Nash for the The New  Leader in 1964 (pages 105 – 109). This article largely looks into the Tippit murder and points out other witnesses which were never properly interviewed nor brought forward. In this article at the end the second floor lunch room encounter is brought up as well and more importantly that Bill Shelley told them that Truly and Baker entered the T.S.B.D. five or six minutes after the shooting. This of course destroys the W.C. timings once again, which were set at 75-90 seconds and of course Oswald’ departure in 3 minutes after the deed.

I’d love to see George and Patricia Nash’s archives.

Oswald’s Shirt

Oswald’s Shirt

 I expect t

I expect this article will be amended in the near future. Since I have a paper coming out soon I needed a referral article to start off with.

Oswald’s shirt at the 6th Floor Museum. Click to enlarge. Screen grab B.K.

Lee Oswald would wear a shirt on his way to and from the Texas School Book Depository and be working in his T-shirt inside the building. He was captured inside the Texas Theater wearing a brownish shirt and after the scuffle inside, his arrest and ride to City Hall he can be seen with this shirt hanging of one shoulder entering City Hall’s third floor.

In this post we will have a look at that brown shirt he wore on the 22nd. The shirt he allegedly changed into after a bus & cab ride to his rooming house after having ‘escaped’ from the T.S.B.D.

Oswald is seen wearing this shirt for the whole duration of the 22nd. Only just after the midnight press conference is he asked to hand it over. F.B.I. Special Agent Vince Drain eventually takes possession  and flies with it and the rest of the evidence overnight to Washington for the F.B.I. to analyse it.

Lee Oswald was allowed to wear his own clothes for the day. Whereas Jack Ruby was put in a white uniform quite quickly after murdering Oswald.

Vincent Drain’s trip from Dallas to Washington with the assassination evidence. Click to enlarge.

Several people, who had seen or interacted with Oswald at various times that day were asked whether they recognised this shirt as the garment Oswald was wearing on the 22nd. And by going through the statements of them we get the following:

Oswald’s shirt. Click to enlarge.

 

Here are their statements just regarding that particular shirt.

 

Oswald’s shirt. CE 150. Click to enlarge.

From that whole group of statements is one important person missing, and that is Marrion Lewis Baker, who allegedly encountered Oswald in the second floor lunch room, which we know is complete and utter rubbish. Let’s study his W.C. testimony.

Mr. BELIN – Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER – At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN – Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came.I wouldn’t be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.
Mr. BELIN – What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER – I couldn’t say whether that was–it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn’t say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES – Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I couldn’t quite hear.
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN – Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to the jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to either one?
Mr. BAKER – Well, it would be similar in color to it–I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn’t really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn’t pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN – Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER – Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN – Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the police station?
Mr. BAKER – He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN – Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen when you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER – I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little coloured jacket, that is all I can say.

Baker’s testimony is very telling and one can only draw the conclusion that he did not see him at the T.S.B.D. why wouldn’t any copper not know what a possible suspect wore after an encounter as such. This is basic stuff for any law enforcement officer to notice and memorise.

Captain Will Fritz made mention of two changes of Oswald’s ‘escape’. The first one was the inclusion of a cab ride as he left the bus prematurely, which he did in his interrogation notes from the Nov. 23rd morning session, and the second one as described, in the document of Dec. 4th below, that Oswald not just changed his shirt, but all his clothing. Which he did not, he did not change his T-shirt! Which is a strange thing, change your shirt but not the T-shirt after having worked in it that morning.

 

Will Fritz FBI Report by Vincent Drain. Click to enlarge.

 

Lee Oswald’s bus and cab ride can be doubted for several reasons. Ed Ledoux initiated a great thread about this at Reopen Kennedy Case Forums . I added various pieces of evidence to this thread and it is more than likely that this escape from the T.S.B.D.  did not happen at all.

Roger Craig noticed someone looking like Oswald coming down the hill in front of the T.S.B.D. and getting into a Nash Rambler at about 12:42. Craig ID-ed Oswald as the man inside Fritz’s office later that afternoon. All this was reported in the Dallas Times Herald on the morning of the 23rd.

The bus ticket was only found on Oswald when he was frisked again just before his first line-up. Why would Oswald take this transfer with him while going into the Texas Theatre? Bus driver McWaters, co-passenger Julia Bledsoe and cab driver William Whaley can be doubted to a high degree speaking the truth.

Oswald’s shirt is photographed in great detail for the Shaneyfelt exhibition. Named after Lynda L. Shaneyfelt who is a special agent for the FBI in the laboratory. I am showing two of the photographs that are cropped on to the shirt. Compare the pix and see that this is not Lee Oswald. These and the others can be seen at the Mary Ferrell website (pgs 467-470).

Oswald’s shirt for the Shaneyfelt exhibition. Source: Mary Ferrell. Click pic to enlarge.

 

 

Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter V5 March 2019

Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter V5 March 2019.

 

It has been a year since my last update and in that year’s time I have been  handed a few key pieces of evidence that I have added to the first paper. I have added, edited and deleted text and some documents and a video.

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

Marrion Baker sees Lee Oswald. Click to enlarge.

You can read and download the paper HERE.

Baker ID in Oswald corridor footage

Greg Parker posted this on FB recently, he pretty much IDed Baker in footage from the evening of the 23rd (about 30 hours after the assassination) of Baker seeing Oswald while he is about to be escorted through the hall and ducks away.

Now let me be very cynical for a change, but if I didn’t know any better then Baker looks at the guy who is being railroaded for the murder of The President, and after what has been going on about the second floor lunch room encounter that had only been public knowledge earlier that day and he cannot bear to look at him any longer after clocking him. That’s what the cynic inside tells me after looking at the man’s body language. I look too much at this stuff, but it’s one of those tells. Like Oswald’s face when he hears “You have been charged for murdering The President”. One of those moments were a picture starts to speak a thousand words.

There has to be more footage of this, as I have never seen this transfer of Oswald on the eve of Nov. 23rd before. It was from a documentary that I only had in a low resolution so never bothered to properly check it myself. Thanks to Greg Parker we all can see Baker on the 23rd no less. Closer inspection also reveals that this encounter is coincidental as Baker just tries to make his way past when the door has just opened with Oswald coming out.

I shall post some screen shots of this footage Greg pointed at. A very short snippet of The Lost JFK Tapes docu.

The video below will play the clip once in real time, and once in a crude slow motion.

Go to the Marrion Baker page to see more pictures.

Before people will bring J.W. Courson into the picture. Well his face shows something of a likeness, but it is not him..

Marrion Lewis Baker, click pic. to enlarge.

 

Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter Update V4

Since August 2017 I came across a few more items so I decided to include these and release this new update. I am honestly not sure whether there is much left to include in this paper. I reckon time will tell. Since getting awarded by Lancer and Dealey Plaza UK this paper has doubled in size. More to read no doubt and more to bitch about by Richard Gilbride and Brian Doyle. Snooch to da mooch darlings ;)

The following has been added:

  • More info and a link to Roy Truly’s ‘deleted’ testimony video. Page 4.
  • Video link and transcript of an interview with Sylvia Meagher in which she discusses the 2nd floor lunch room encounter in depth. Added on pages 9-11.
  • Malcolm Couch still added showing Baker’s bike parked on Elm St. Page 20.
  • Detailed drawings of the TSBD front entrance. These were made by the FBI in early Dec. 1963. Pages 30 & 31. Thanks to Gary Murr.
  • More testimony and a line of text of Joe Molina added to “Who saw Baker going up the stairs” chapter, page 38.
  • Detailed drawings from the FBI on the 2nd floor of the TSBD, pages 63-64. Thanks to Gary Murr.
  • Press and Sun-Bulletin Binghamton, New York · Sun, Dec 8, 1963 article added, page 73.
  • Added Martha Reed’s affidavit in the chapter Oswald’s location during the so called 2nd floor encounter and just after, page 82.
  • Added two documents from Arch Kimbraugh’s collection with statements made by Roy Truly on the day he left for his W.C. testimony. Pages 102 and 103. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.
  • Report by Charles Batchelor in the Where did Baker and Truly go after the Encounter chapter. Pages 107-109.
  • Jack Revill’s list of all persons’ details taken upon leaving the T.S.B.D. Pages 111 and 112.
  • The Carolyn Arnold sub-chapter has been re-written in part and has a few more photos/graphics/statements/book excerpts added. Pages 124-139.
  • FBI report with the timings of the re-enactment. Pages 159-161. Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

 

The paper can be viewed HERE.