Business as usual or meet the lone gunman(UA-66627984-1)

Bill Shelley

The sun plane

The last week there has been some debate about an old myth: The Sun Plane in the Prayer Man images.

Originally brought up by Brian Doyle in his many word salad postings a couple of years ago, and in that whole period Doyle has never brought forward how it is supposed to look or give a rough estimation of it. So like a flat earther he ended up posting “his findings” on the net and everybody else would have to believe his “research” on his say so.

This tactic doesn’t work very well for Doyle, people are smarter than that. And yes Doyle = Cinque, there is no doubt about that.

Then there was Barry Pollard who posted  an image of Billy Lovelady going down the steps in the Wiegman film and claimed that Lovelady wore a black jacket as he could not explain the shadow on the left half on Lovelady’s (2) torso.

Yet with Bill Shelley (3) in the background it could be that Lovelady walks exactly halfway in the shadow and the sun. Be aware that this is an enlargement of a small detail of a 16 mm film shot with a wide angle lens. The steps occupants look much closer together due to these factors.

Prayer Man = 1, Billy Lovelady = 2 and Bill Shelley = 3. Click pic to enlarge.

Click to enlarge.

Take a look at the shadow of the people at the front and the sharp angle it is coming at, granted they may not stand exactly parallel to the people on the steps, but for a rough indication this ought to show that the shadow is much longer than originally discussed.

I can pinpoint it even more precise.

Take a look at Buell Wesley Frazier in the Darnell film. And you will see the shadow of the top left corner of the wall (just underneath the TSBD sign) creates a shadow of a 90 degree-ish angle on him, his head is in the shade no less. Above Frazier and JoeMolina is a glass pane and that is partially illuminated and so is the glass on the far eastern side. This illumination is from a reflection of the eastern wall.

Click pic. to enlarge.

Look at Maddie Reese in both images, in Wiegman standing southwesterly below Lovelady in Wiegman and Frazier in Darnell.

Click to enlarge.

So now anyone drawing the TSBD steps in 3D is able to pinpoint how the sun plane is actually going correctly as so far no one has done this as it ought to be. The shadow ends up way more Eastwards than has been shown so far. And honestly I trust the photos more. Furthermore the three people that have started to make 3d drawings of the steps of the T.S.B.D. put the shadowline in as a 2d object, whereas the shadow would resemble some sort of half a sphere instead.

Thanks to Brian Kelshaw.

Thanks to Brian Kelshaw.

You are welcome Brian Doyle!

The roll call inside the TSBD never happened.

Updated June 30th 2018.

Added Harold Norman’s HSCA testimony.

Updated December 4th 2019

Added a snippet of Buell Wesley Frazier’s W.C.testimony

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Let’s begin with Roy Truly’s testimony where he sheds light on what was done about this just after the shooting.

He tells a scenario that Fritz was notified of Oswald being missing around 1 PM.  Had that been the case the APB going out would have been a lot more specific than the generic message of

Attention all squads, the suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is supposed to be an unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle, – repeat, unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build. No further description at this time or information, 12:45 p.m.

Had Truly known about this at 1 PM then it would have been broadcast as such.

MR. TRULY. So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there. First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell–I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.
Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?
Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, “Have you seen him around lately,” and he said no.
So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, “I have a boy over here missing. I don’t know whether to report it or not.” Because I had another one or two out then. I didn’t know whether they were all there or not. He said, “What do you think”? And I got to thinking. He said, “Well, we better do it anyway.” It was so quick after that.
So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy’s name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have any address for him in Dallas, or did you just have an address in Irving?
Mr. TRULY. Just the address in Irving. I knew nothing of this Dallas address. I didn’t know he was living away from his family.
Mr. BELIN. Now, would that be the address and the description as shown on this application, Exhibit 496?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Why didn’t you ask for any other employees?
Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after you got that information?
Mr. TRULY. Chief Lumpkin of the Dallas Police Department was standing a few feet from me. I told Chief Lumpkin that I had a boy missing over here “I don’t know whether it amounts to anything or not.” And I gave him his description. And he says, “Just a moment. We will go tell Captain Fritz.”
Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened?
Mr. TRULY. So Chief Lumpkin had several officers there that he was talking to, and I assumed that he gave him some instructions of some nature I didn’t hear it. And then he turned to me and says, “Now we will go upstairs”.
So we got on one of the elevators, I don’t know which, and rode up to the sixth floor. I didn’t know Captain Fritz was on the sixth floor. And he was over in the northwest corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. By the stairs there?
Mr. TRULY. Yes; by the stairs.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. TRULY. And there were other officers with him. Chief Lumpkin stepped over and told Captain Fritz that I had something that I wanted to tell him.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened
Mr. TRULY. So Captain Fritz left the men he was with and walked over about 8 or 10 feet and said, “What is it, Mr. Truly,” or words to that effect.
And I told him about this boy missing and gave him his address and telephone number and general description. And he says, “Thank you, Mr. Truly. We will take care of it.
And I went back downstairs in a few minutes.
There was a reporter followed me away from that spot, and asked me who Oswald was. I told the reporter, “You must have ears like a bird, or something. I don’t want to say anything about a boy I don’t know anything about. This is a terrible thing.” Or words to that effect.
I said, “Don’t bother me. Don’t mention the name. Let’s find something out.”
So I went back downstairs with Chief Lumpkin.
Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn’t.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. That I can’t answer. I don’t remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases. It could have been at the time I went up and told them about Lee Harvey Oswald being missing. I cannot remember. But I didn’t know it. I didn’t see them find them, and I didn’t know at the time I don’t know how long they had the things.
And what the hell was Truly doing in the sniper’s next before they found the shells and the rifle??? Alan Ford already made mention of this at The Deep Politics Forum

Shelley is gone to City Hall and he is there for a good few hours and I reckon he left with some of the 6th floor workers. Garcia and Williams, get treated right by the cops.

He sees Oswald being paraded in by the DPD and remarks that ‘he’ works at the TSBD and he is his mgr. Shelley’s statements are taken by Det. C.W. Brown who makes mention of this in his report.

C.W. Brown on the third floor corridor just outside the Robbery and Homicide office where Oswald has just been transferred to and can be overheard demanding “Hygienic Rights” Nov 23 1963. Screen grab B.K.

Report on officer’s duties in regards the President’s Murder- C.W. Brown.

In the video below Billy Lovelady is sitting while Oswald is being led past him into another room

What he does not do is point him out as the man missing at 1 PM before he left.  Now why not as that would have sealed the deal. Same as Marrion Baker’s supposedly IDing Oswald as the man he stopped when nothing can be produced to confirm this, not even Marvin Johnson BS report can. Baker would have been inside Fritz’s office there and then confirming him as the man he apprehended.

Shelley confers with Truly  upon his return and brings back the news that Oswald is brought in for killing a cop.
Add on that that same afternoon Oswald’s commie credentials were broadcast all over.
Then there is the whole matter of the missing employees. Most people who are researching this will name Charles Douglas Givens who was absent for a while and Shelley said that they were going to send out an APB, but he just happened to return in time.
This does not rhyme with the Revill List at at all. There are many more employees missing.
What we can see from this list is that:
  • Oswald is mentioned on the top of it. Which lends more credence to the slighting by Roger Craig and other witnesses seeing a person resembling Oswald running down the grassy slope and getting into a Nash Rambler.
  • Shelley’s name is nowhere to be seen. His departure and return are not recorded at all.
And here comes the hammer the following people all left at 12:15. But this list shows that:
  • Lloyd Viles arrived back at 3:10 PM.
  • Virgie Rackley, Dolores Kounas and Mrs  William Parker all returning at 2:55 PM.
Virgie Rackley returning at just before 3 PM and seen here talking to Kent Biffle inside the TSBD. Had Biffle known then his questioning and reporting would have been different.

Virgie Rachley being interviewed by Kent Biffle

But Biffle did say something about all this in 1982 in the Dallas Morning News.
. . . only two of us [reporters] had arrived at the ambush building [ the Depository] by this point. . . . Getting in was no problem. I just hid my press badge . . . and went in with the first wave of cops. . . . Hours dragged by. The building superintendent showed up with some papers in his hand. I listened as he told detectives about Lee Oswald failing to show up at a roll call. My impression is that there was an earlier roll call that had been inconclusive because several employees were missing. This time, however all were accounted for except Oswald. I jotted down the Oswald information. . . . Neither the police in the building nor the superintendent knew that Oswald already was under arrest. Oswald’s name was not called out until after 3 PM!
Then there is Buell Wesley Frazier who during his W.C. testimony mentions the following:
Mr. BALL – What time did they tell you to go home?
Mr. FRAZIER – It was between 1 and 2 there sometime, roughly, I don’t know what time it was.
Mr. BALL – Had the police officers come in there and talked to you?
Mr. FRAZIER – Yes, sir; they come in and talked to all of us. They asked us to show our proper identification, and then they had us to write our name down and who to get in touch with if they wanted to see us.
Mr. BALL – Did they ask you where you had been at the time the President passed?
Mr. FRAZIER – Yes, sir; they had. I told them I was out on the steps there.
Mr. BALL – Asked you who you were with?
Mr. FRAZIER – Yes, sir; I told them and naturally Mr. Shelley and Billy vouched for me and so they didn’t think anything about it.
Mr. BALL – Did you hear anybody around there asking for Lee Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER – No, sir; I didn’t.
Mr. BALL – At any time before you went home, did you hear anybody ask for Lee?
Mr. FRAZIER – No, sir; I don’t believe they did, because they, you know, like one man showed us, we had to give proper identification and after we passed him he told us to walk on then to the next man, and we, you know, put down proper information where he could be found if they wanted to see you and talk to you any more, and then we went on up to a little bit more to the front entrance more toward Mr. Shelley’s office there with another man and stood there for a little while and told us all that was there could go ahead and go home.
Mr. BALL – Then you went on home?
Mr. FRAZIER – Right.
Add on Harold Norman’s HSCA interview. In it at roughly 21 mins in.

Q: Prior to the time they let you go for the day, was everybody looking for Oswald?

Norman. I don’t think so.

Q: There was no speculation about Oswald being the shooter?

Norman: Not that I recall.

About 7 minutes later.

Q: You gave as I understand it, you gave your name and address and identified yourself just like everyone else was doing.

Norman: Right.

Q: …that worked there, they was making some kind of head count?

Norman: Right.

Q: Was that right?

Norman: Yes.

Q: Did you know who was missing at the time of that headcount?

Norman: No, I just can’t recall who was missing.

Q: All right did they tell you anyone was missing?

Norman: I don’t recall if they did that either.

Q: Did you know Oswald was missing?

Norman: No.

In CE 1381 (the FBI 6 questions for all TSBD employees  in one file) Norman’s statement says he left the T.S.B.D. at 2 PM.
Then you can add the Martin film as evidence as well. This film was supposedly shot between 12:50 and 13:00. This film shows Lovelady, Williams and Garcia outside waiting on the steps to get in.
Now then if the roll call is bogus then Will Fritz went to City Hall to check upon a suspect brought in for the Tippit Killing, nothing more. The rest is pure fairy tales made up after the fact. Plus Truly and Shelley were covering their rears for letting him go 15 minutes after the assassination.
Any questions?
Additional research by Ed Ledoux, Greg Parker and Donald Willis.

ROKC at NARA-1

ROKC has managed to get to NARA and get a few boxes shown with HSCA documents of some of the TSBD employees, and we found a few bits of interest. It was surprising to see that certain folders were kept in the CIA classified section. As of now I have no knowledge whether these are to be released next year.

Bill Shelley had a record for theft. The charges relate to 1960 and 1969. The one from 1960 refers to weapons theft. The other one is unclear and perhaps the Dallas County Records can solve that piece of the puzzle.

So Billy Lovelady had a weapons charge arrest record prior the assassination, and Ochus Campbell helped him out paying off his remainder of the outstanding fine. And now Bill Shelley. Yet Charles Douglas Givens who had a narcotics charge was literally hounded by the DPD. Or did Billy and Bill get ‘the treatment’ as well and is that why they lied during their WC testimony?

Criminal Record Bill Shelley

Criminal Record Bill Shelley, click pic. to enlarge.

 

Danny Garcia Arce in his HSCA statement: “Lee Oswald rode down in the elevator with us…..” which contradicts the whole elevator race story. They may have surely had some of these races, but not at that time.

IMG_20160628_0001-Danny Garcia Arce

Danny Garcia Arce statement HSCA 1978. Click pic. to enlarge.

 

Roy Truly’s and Marrion Baker’s FBI statements from Sept 23rd 1964 were rushed back to Washington, probably to be there to be included with the Warren Report which was printed already and to be handed to LBJ the next day. They wanted to make sure these statements were back in time. The timing of this is nothing short of amazing.

IMG_20160628_0047-Baker & Truly

Cover letter to have the FBI statements by Roy Truly and Marrion Baker being sent back to Washington a.s.a.p. Click pic. to enlarge.

CIA document Lee Oswald’s activities Nov 22-24

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for handing me this document from the HSCA while at the DPUK Canterbury seminar last April. This CIA document, sadly undated, shows Lee Oswald’s activities from Nov 22nd to the 24th.

The fact that the CIA went through all the witness statements and testimony and put them in chronological order is interesting by itself. There are even two pages with diagrams of who was were.

Interesting indeed.

 

 

Billy Lovelady was not standing on the top of the steps

Lately a few individuals have tried to claim that Prayer Man was very short and they used ‘calculations’ and the ‘fact’ that Lovelady was standing on the landing when Dave Wiegman filmed the front of the TSBD. They  used Lovelady’s height to ‘prove’ that Prayer Man (read: Lee Harvey Oswald) was way shorter and could not possibly be Oswald.

Let’s debunk this shall we?

All types of faulty and/or made-up calculations and lines drawn on a picture were presented as analytical research, none of which was supported by any type of evidence. No one bothered to mention what camera Wiegman was using, nor could any one present an exact location as to where Wiegman was filming from, add on that all this happened while the vehicle he was standing in was moving which makes it even more difficult to ascertain Wiegman’s position.

In short: utter junk science that no one else than the believers Richard Gilbride and Albert Doyle seemed to subscribe to and they ended up trolling a few forums with their science.

While going through the photos of the Wiegman film I came across a neat little find two days ago, something that I was only able to do so as we managed to get a high resolution scan from the NARA archives in the Richard E. Sprague collection.

The find was Bill Shelley (underneath No.3), with Prayer Man being No. 1 and Billy Lovelady No. 2. This pic. is from the second segment Wiegman filmed of the front of the TSBD and it also shows that Lovelady has stepped down (compared to his position in the first segment) and it also shows that Shelley has moved slightly more to the left (he is now behind Otis Williams whereas he is more to the right of him in the first segment, see the 4th photograph below). This is a good indicator that while the shots were fired they already made a move to go down and check out what was going on. The two Gerda Dunckel GIFs show that Shelley and Lovelady had left the steps and made their way to the rail road yard further west of the building within seconds after. I go in great detail about this  HERE.

Shelly was standing on the top of the landing. Whereas Lovelady was not, as he stated in 1964 in an article by Dom Bonafede “I was standing on the first step” 

q Prayer Man, Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley in the Wiegman film. Click pic to enlarge.

Lovelady had a very curious attitude as he is seen in much lower on the steps and to the left, behind Roy Lewis/Carl Edward Jones in the Hughes film. This is while the motorcade is turning on to Elm St.

Lovelady in the Robert Hughes film. Click pic. to enlarge.

Altgens 6 shows that Lovelady moved up and further to the right, his distance is further away from Lewis/Jones.

Billy Lovelady in Altgens 6, click pic. to enlarge

 

Albert Doyle and Richard Gilbride have been claiming, that Prayer Man is too short to be Oswald. This of course is not supported by anything but made-up calculations and picking up pseudo science from other peeps such as Drew Phipps and presenting pix with neat little lines and numbers that basically amount to nothing. Not one person at the forums this bunk was posted at supported any of it.

 

The kicker is that Lovelady was not standing on the top landing, because he is seen leaning against the railing in the first segment of the Wiegman film. Check his body posture compared to all other individuals on  those steps, they are all standing straight, even though Lovelady is following the events happening down Elm St and his body is turned into that direction his body posture shows he is leaning. Take a look at the 2nd segment photo and you see that Lovelady is standing straight on the steps, as he is making a move going downwards.

 

 

Lovelady leaning in Wiegman, click pic. to enlarge.

Lovelady stepping down, click pic. to enlarge.

The issue with that is you cannot lean against the railing while standing on the top landing!

See for yourself in the photograph below. The railing is mounted flush on the vertical part of the last step leading to the landing, the bar of the railing would be slightly in front of the landing.  The deniers will claim that it is still possible, yet it would be so awkward and since Lovelady’s posture doesn’t ascribe to that it is safe to say that Lovelady from standing just behind Roy Lewis / Carl Edward Jones moved upward and to the right to the 5th or the 6th step of the TSBD stairs.

 

 

Front steps TSBD

 

But why do we not throw something valuable on top and that is a stamenet by Lovelady himself in May 64 published in the NYHT by Dom Bonafede.

 

The lens Wiegman used was a wide angle lens, this creates distortions and Lovelady while moving downward as in the 2nd segment would appear slightly taller than Prayer Man since he is, by that time, standing more forward.

But what is more important is that Prayer Man is of roughly the same height as Lovelady and THAT makes Prayer Man, besides the enormous amount of other evidence a prime candidate to be Lee Harvey Oswald.

No stranger

No woman

No other TSBD worker has been identified for that position.

Oswald himself said: ”Out with Bill Shelley, in front”.

No dwarf either.

Brian Doyle and Richard Gilbride should get back to the drawing board and come up with their next scheme as this one, like their previous ones is dead in the water.

 

***

 

Then there is another issue as to what Prayer Man was doing with the shiny object he is bring towards his face.

On my calibrated screen (and if you do not have one you may experience issues seeing this clearly as I do) the Wiegman film shows he using one hand (his right) to bring iot towards his mouth. This is not a camera! But more than likely the bottle that was photographed in Prayer Man’s position after the deed.

Close-ups of Robin Unger’s gif.

 

Who Was Prayer Man Podcast

Rob Clark did a podcast about a year ago on Prayer Man,  click to listen.

Prayer Man-Darnell-BK

Listening to it, and considering it is a year old it is missing a few bits of research. I will try and straighten a few things out if you intend to listen to it.

Prayer Man was captured by Dave Weigman and Jimmy Darnell, and not by Malcolm Couch, his swerve to the right with his camera did not go as far as the TSBD steps, but the Couch film is an asset nevertheless as it shows William Hoyt Shelley and Billy Nolan Lovelady walking away towards the parking lot behind the knoll. This is an important fact to know as it helps reduce the possible candidates of who Prayer Man actually is.

lovelady and shelly in couch-BK-

Sean Murphy deserves the large part of the credit of creating Prayer Man, but the exact moment of discovery at this time, is hard to ascertain, that is because the JFK Lancer forum where this possibly happened has gone offline, the Education Forum hopes to reinstate it later, Summer 2016, so they say. It was supposed to be sorted in November this year but they have added at least 6 months on top of it.

The real discoverer of Prayer Man is Richard E Sprague (more about him when my essay is out) who mentioned the man hidden in the shadows, when he saw Dave  Weigman’s film. He mentioned it in the late 60’s already. His correspondence with Harold Weisberg and Richard Benarbei shows this.

Rob Clark makes good mention of the basic issues such as the first day affidavits of Baker, Lovelady and Shelly which do not correspond with the Warren Commission testimony.

He then talks about Bill Shelley, and the identification of him and the pictures that are around. This is where he is wrong. His identity has  been solved with the many pictures and the statements that are available of him. Shelly also said he escorted and was at the police station giving statements with Danny Garcia Arce and Bonnie Ray Williams.

Then he makes the statement that he cannot see Billy Lovelady in Dave Weigman’s film, well here he is Rob :) And that is and Prayer Man and Billy Nolan Lovelady together.

Lovelady in Weigman

 

Regarding Will Fritz’s interrogation notes it is not that simple, one needs to add James Bookhout’s and Harry D Holmes reports and testimony into account as well, and a different picture starts to emerge (again this site will show the hows etc in due course).

Jack Dougherty is brought up as well, and rightly so, to this day a very shady character with not much info available about him. His statements were so iffy, and Roy Truly told everyone not to pay too much attention to him as he was mildly retarded, yeah sure Roy. The Warren Commission wanted to grill Jack Dougherty big time as they did not believe what he was saying, well if the W.C. wants to seriously question someone then something is really amiss……

Rob Clark brings up a valid point that all TSBD employees should have been photographed when their testimony was taken, it would have helped of course.

Then Rob cannot believe that Oswald was standing there all that time while the shooting was going on and after and not being seen or recognised or mentioned in any of the testimony. He makes a mention of Lee Harvey Oswald getting change on the 2nd floor as per Robert Groden’s story, which has been disproved the minute it came out in his book. Jim Marrs tried to flog this one as well, but there is no evidence whatsoever that this actually happened. Nor did Oswald ever make a mention of it.

Can Buell Wesley Frazier be believed asks Rob, well no……

Rob is right to doubt the bus ride, the cab ride and the timings involved since they are not possible.

Could it be a stranger he asks, which has been disproved. Nor does it hold 100 employees, 79 at the most. The Warren Commission got 73 statements in the end.

The identification of the African American guy en-profile is not Otis Williams but Carl Edward Jones. Otis Williams and his pot belly stands in the center above Maddie Reese in Altgens 6.

HSCA enlargement w names

Overall not a bad attempt at discussing this but there is a lot missing, and I mean a lot, and as mentioned I will paste it all here on this site hopefully very soon.