REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Number 3 is important to understanding of transfers.

They only worked along the run punched, Marsalis 30 or lakewood trasfers would be good at transfer points for 15 minutes (OR until next bus regardless of time punced) and as Cecil says downtown just about anywhere


Number 7 asks what buses could one transfer to from Jefferson and Marsalis.

.

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 6:58 AM

Not 10 minutes. Not 15 or 20 or 25. 30 minutes.

Was thinking before about the 12:45 being considered am... and how that might actually make sense - but only if you bring it back to 12:15... because if for the sake of convenience, you accept 12 noon as am... then if you give a transfer at noon that is good for 15 minutes, it makes sense (I Think????) to perhaps extend to your time stretch to 12:15.

Is it possible then that Cecil added the half hour to make it 12:45 because of the half hour time difference you point out above? Does adding that half hour aleviate the issue, or have sucked up too many paint fumes tofday?  If I am confusing issues... ignore... I really don't know... just the half hour thing jumped out at me since I already had in mind about the 12:15 vs 12:45 issue...

Close!!!!!

1 is really PM

The company must back adjust the transfer for a tear at 12:45
This transfer would need to be PM as rider would be boarding at 1PM on another bus....OR the next bus, regardless of time torn.
and 12:15 12:30 are AM

Otherwise everything before 1 would be AM
Even 12:45


At Baylor I spotted Armstrongs "wrinkled transfer"
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34055/rec/258
004459 should have creases!

Another good day tater!

Ed Ledoux at February 7, 2015 at 7:38 AM

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 6:58 AM

Not 10 minutes. Not 15 or 20 or 25. 30 minutes.

Was thinking before about the 12:45 being considered am... and how that might actually make sense - but only if you bring it back to 12:15... because if for the sake of convenience, you accept 12 noon as am... then if you give a transfer at noon that is good for 15 minutes, it makes sense (I Think????) to perhaps extend to your time stretch to 12:15.

Is it possible then that Cecil added the half hour to make it 12:45 because of the half hour time difference you point out above? Does adding that half hour aleviate the issue, or have sucked up too many paint fumes tofday?  If I am confusing issues... ignore... I really don't know... just the half hour thing jumped out at me since I already had in mind about the 12:15 vs 12:45 issue...

Close!!!!!

1 is really PM

The company must back adjust the transfer for a tear at 12:45
This transfer would need to be PM as rider would be boarding at 1PM on another bus....OR the next bus, regardless of time torn.
and 12:15 12:30 are AM

Otherwise everything before 1 would be AM
Even 12:45


At Baylor I spotted Armstrongs "wrinkled transfer"
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34055/rec/258
004459 should have creases!

Another good day tater!

Ed,

I don't believe for one second that Armstrong saw a wrinkled transfer.  He saw the same damn transfer that's in the photos we have.  Perfect.  

I don't believe a damn word that Armstrong says any more.  He had the same foundational information that I used when dismantling the bus ride story and he buried it in his ludicrous Harvey & Lee narrative.  He knew Oswald wasn't on that bus and he knew that Mary Bledsoe wasn't on the bus when she says she was.  I have absolutley no doubts whatsoever that he knew.  If he didn't, he's a bigger idiot than we first imagined.

Rather than pursue it the way I (Greg and Duke) pursued it and how you are now pursuing it, this clown decided that the information he had collected was better served in chasing a fucking ghost.  Just like the Warren Commission served to give us information chasing a second ghost - a second Roy Milton Jones - when there was ony one.

Ed Ledoux at February 7, 2015 at 7:38 AM

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 6:58 AM

Not 10 minutes. Not 15 or 20 or 25. 30 minutes.

Was thinking before about the 12:45 being considered am... and how that might actually make sense - but only if you bring it back to 12:15... because if for the sake of convenience, you accept 12 noon as am... then if you give a transfer at noon that is good for 15 minutes, it makes sense (I Think????) to perhaps extend to your time stretch to 12:15.

Is it possible then that Cecil added the half hour to make it 12:45 because of the half hour time difference you point out above? Does adding that half hour aleviate the issue, or have sucked up too many paint fumes tofday?  If I am confusing issues... ignore... I really don't know... just the half hour thing jumped out at me since I already had in mind about the 12:15 vs 12:45 issue...

Close!!!!!

1 is really PM

The company must back adjust the transfer for a tear at 12:45
This transfer would need to be PM as rider would be boarding at 1PM on another bus....OR the next bus, regardless of time torn.
and 12:15 12:30 are AM

Otherwise everything before 1 would be AM
Even 12:45


At Baylor I spotted Armstrongs "wrinkled transfer"
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34055/rec/258
004459 should have creases!

Another good day tater!

I get it now.

If 12:30 in the afternoon was punched PM then you could tear the ticket across the 1:00 o'clock section to get a later transfer out of the ticket.  If 12:30 is punched AM you can't tear across the 1:00 o'clock section and get a later transfer because it would show 1:00 AM.

So, if I departed a LAKEWOOD bus at LAMAR at 12:30 in the early hours of the morning and needed a transfer it would be punched PM.

Once again, Joseph Ball et al, FUCK YOU ALL for putting us through this.

So we can scratch out the possibility that this transfer was punched 12:30PM and made into a 1:00PM transfer because it would have been a 12:30AM transfer had it been given out before 1:00 PM.

Therefore, now that this is off the table as a possibility two options remain given the way the evidence was handled.

1.  Roy Milton Jones departed Cecil McWatters' bus to see what was going on when the sirens started and was given a transfer punched 1:00PM he reboarded once he had found out the President had been shot in the temple.  Problem with this scenario is the time JONES claimed he boarded the bus and also if this scenario were true there would be no need to not take the booklets from McWatters bus because the transfer would pan out sequentially.

2.  The transfer 0044459 was taken from McWatters' transfer booklet at 6:00pm the night of 11/22.  Problem with this scenario.  Nowt.  It's the reason why they didn't take the entire booklet and didn't go and retrieve the transfer receipts from Dallas Transit because this transfer would not have panned out sequentially.

I'm still sat on the side of the fence where Milton Jones was originally on the 12:10PM bus and then landed on McWatters bus.

If Lee never was on the bus was he then in Darryl Click´s taxicab ?

Faroe Islander at February 7, 2015 at 2:35 PM

If Lee never was on the bus was he then in Darryl Click´s taxicab ?

I don't know, FI.

I know he wasn't in WIlliam Whaley's taxi cab.  Whaley's story is just as bad as McWatters/Bledsoe's if not worse.  It's certainly more transparent.

I did find an interesting tidbit of information related to the surname Click when I was researching Marion Meharg.  I still stand by this research and believe it is still an important topic and needs to be tapped into further:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18406

Lee Farley at February 7, 2015 at 6:40 AM

I find it hard to believe that Roy Milton Jones would get his bus mixed up.  He says he got on the bus at 12:10 or 12:15. That is the bus BEFORE McWatters bus.  The 12:10PM LAMAR bus.  McWatters is the 12:40 PM LAMAR bus.

Thirty minutes difference.  Not 5 minutes.  Not 10 minutes.  Not 15 or 20 or 25.  30 minutes.  A completely different bus - - if we all honestly believe that McWatters was driving the 12:40 PM.  I'm not willing to accept he was driving the 12:40 PM bus at this point in time.  

There is so much bullshit to cut through before I'm willing to accept that as fact.  I can see plenty of loose ends in the scenario I have proposed but there are about 90% less loose ends in my scenario that exist in the story Joseph Ball and Cecil McWatters left us with.

Are we saying Jones and perhaps Bledsoe and Perhaps suitcase lady got on the 12:10 Lamar bus?
Which then perhaps gets held up in Parade traffic only....  and if that bus doesn't make it to Record St. before 12:30
then it is going to be stopped, as the motorcade approaches and leaves Dealey Plaza, and not allowed across Record till some time afterward.

Transfers from such a bus could be torn 12:30  or  12:45.
12:30 AM transfers could be issued from a pre-punched book for this early run.
12:45 PM transfers would not be issued from an AM pre-punched booklet, but could be from drivers PM pre-punched booklet.

If so they would need to use those transfers to board Cecils bus for the Jones Bledsoe Suitcase Lady debacle to happen. Yes?
For suitcase lady, that ride would need to be short and she would exit with a transfer, possibly to another bus, per Bledsoe.

An AM transfer does not match up with 004451 booklet of course because it was issued by the 12:10 Lamar driver not Cecil.
those transfer punches would not match back up.
An PM transfer could match up with 004451 booklet if punches matched with punch on the index list the supervisor had with Cecils punch and badge #, but we are NOT shown this index master list of punch marks and drivers badge numbers...:|

The "bus schedule" that Cecil provides is more than a year old and does not have a place on it that identifies Cecil as having made this document, no badge number, nothing on it says that this was from Cecil other than he brought it in and said he had been doing that particular run two years straight. 
Could be why CE 378 is not a Mcwatter exhibit.
The 2:35 is supposed to be the number of hours he works. Not a time....:roll:
He starts at 12:11 and drives till 2:11.
Boldly it says - Turn Signs Marsalis At 2:11
Then he is at Paulus at 2:20
So I would assume reaching St Paul @ 2:35pm by not killing a minute.  Then what? Discharge all pasengers? Swap drivers? Keeps me thinking he did more than 2:35 worth of driving.


FORD Steps In,

Mr. McWATTERS - This is the inside, let's see, this is the driver right here. Here is your cross seat right here. Here, about back here, is where the lady got off who was sitting on this seat.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that with an "L"?  L = Lady who got off bus

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here is the first. Right here is where the man that was sitting, got off, in this seat right here, I believe it is.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that "M" where the man who was sitting also got off who got the transfer?M = Man got off & transfer

Representative FORD - And the teenager was sitting in what seat?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that "0"? O = Teenager/Jones

Representative FORD - Where was the man standing who came to the bus and said the President had been shot?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here.

Representative FORD - On the step?

Mr. McWATTERS - On the step. I guess, I presume this would be the second step there. To the best of my recollection he stepped up on the first step.

Representative FORD - Mark that "P." P = Pres.ShotMan/Temple

12Am is the hour covering 12 to 1

But regarding a transfer, 12:45 is PM  with 15 minutes till 1PM to use it. Cecil said he just tore at 1pm

If it was punched 12:45 AM you would be wearing pajamas and sleepwalking casue that is in the middle of the damn night. And no one is punching your transfer, 12:45AM, you'd be at home in bed asleep and so would Cecil. Not rushing to catch a 1am bus.


As Cecil pointed out:

"In other words, if you was to arrive there at, say, 12:50 or in that vicinity, you always give the passenger the 15 minutes, in other words, within the hour of the transfer."

He can't cut the transfer for 1:05

There is no 05 to tear it at.
He could adjust it to tear at 1:15.
This gives a rider whom got to Lamar and wanted a transfer at 12:50 full 15 minutes+ rather than at regular time of 12:40 (where 1 O' clock would be torn) shoting a rider five minutes.

So to overcome shorting a customer Cecil would tear 1pm or LATER on his transfers. If on time 12:40 at Lamar passengers would get 1pm transfers. If Cecil is late at Lamar, 12:50 etc., passengers would get transfers cut to the next minute selection of 15. or 1:15
But from the evidence we can say Cecil got to Lamar by 12:45

Mr. BALL - You let him on the bus, and he paid his fare, how much is that fare?

Mr. McWATTERS - It is 23 cents.

Mr. BALL - 23 cents, and you went about down almost to Poydras.

Mr. McWATTERS - Almost, between Poydras and Lamar.

So no matter where you got on, you paid your 23 cents...which would be the same as paying from the starting point at St. Paul.
Just you get your full monies worth by starting at St. Paul vs getting on at Record.
Don't know if this makes the case for it being Milton weaker or forces another look


Another LOOK
Where did the OTHER MAN come from??

Senator COOPER - Did anyone tell you, either the police or the FBI or any other officer or any other person, tell you at the time you made your first affidavit or later that there was another man reported to have been on your bus and got off?

Mr. McWATTERS - I don't recall.

Hmmm. Selective amnesia?

Senator COOPER - Before you were asked to select a man in the lineup, did the police or any officer identify any one of them as bearing the name of Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; they never stated anything.

Senator COOPER - Have you seen photographs of a man who is named in those photographs as being Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Have I saw them?

Senator COOPER - Yes, sir.

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Well, now, you have seen this young man, Milton Jones, several times since then?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Now after having seen him several times since then, and having seen these photographs of the man who is identified as Lee Oswald--

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Senator COOPER - Does Milton Jones look like Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they both, just like I say, about the same height, and same build, and everything, as far as identifying looking at a man in the face of course, I know him now, distinctly.

Senator COOPER - But at this time would you identify him as Lee Oswald from the photographs you have seen of Lee Oswald?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right now?

Senator COOPER - Yes.

Mr. McWATTERS - No. At the time, I couldn't then, in other words, even from the recalling of what I seen him then, I mean just to say that the height and size of him, no, I wouldn't make the statement that I could now.

So Milton Jones never looked like Oswald other than size even from what Cecil saw of Oswald in the lineup.



Transfer and envelope http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34055/rec/258

The collection seems to have what Armstrong had reproduced at national archives, and he did not get every route map, just the ones in question.
I swear I found them all somewhere. FWIW
I would bet the archives does have a full set somewhere.


Time for a Bledsoe quote:

Mr. BALL - Did she ask for a transfer?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; she had the man give her one, because she caught the bus before she got to the train station.

Mr. BALL - How do you know that?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I saw her.

Mr. BALL - You saw her catch another bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - She got on when we did. She rode a block.

This makes sense now.
Bledsoe sees the lady with the suitcase get on.
She is seen getting a transfer. and exiting the bus.

She gets on another Bus. The 12:10 Lamar bus?
Bledsoe sees this.
The new bus is in Bledsoe's sight for one block. It turns, goes straight, went down Lamar, etc. Bledsoe only sees it for a block.
Or lady rode on the Beckley us which was most likely infront of the Marsalis bus (see Powell pics)
It would go a block and suitcase lady would have to get off or end up in Oak Cliff.

Or Am I hearing that Bledsoe got off Cecils bus when she did, and rode a block with her.
Or the lady was on Cecils bus for a block before being stopped in traffic per Bledsoe??

This is as hrd to figure out as the rent receipt:

Mr. JENNER - Now, you had a discussion, and you rented the room to him for $7 for that week?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.

Mr. JENNER - And he paid you then and there?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh

Mr. JENNER - In cash?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; and I gave him a receipt on this book.

Miss DOUTHIT - The only conversation you had with this Mrs.----with this Mr. Oswald was when he came and rented the room and signed the register?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And what I got out of him. That's all I could get.

Miss DOUTHIT - Now; did you get any information out of him after he signed the register?

Receipt my eye!!!!!!!!

Lee Farley at February 7, 2015 at 8:16 AM

Ed Ledoux at February 7, 2015 at 7:38 AM

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 6:58 AM

Not 10 minutes. Not 15 or 20 or 25. 30 minutes.

Was thinking before about the 12:45 being considered am... and how that might actually make sense - but only if you bring it back to 12:15... because if for the sake of convenience, you accept 12 noon as am... then if you give a transfer at noon that is good for 15 minutes, it makes sense (I Think????) to perhaps extend to your time stretch to 12:15.

Is it possible then that Cecil added the half hour to make it 12:45 because of the half hour time difference you point out above? Does adding that half hour aleviate the issue, or have sucked up too many paint fumes tofday?  If I am confusing issues... ignore... I really don't know... just the half hour thing jumped out at me since I already had in mind about the 12:15 vs 12:45 issue...

Close!!!!!

1 is really PM

The company must back adjust the transfer for a tear at 12:45
This transfer would need to be PM as rider would be boarding at 1PM on another bus....OR the next bus, regardless of time torn.
and 12:15 12:30 are AM

Otherwise everything before 1 would be AM
Even 12:45


At Baylor I spotted Armstrongs "wrinkled transfer"
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34055/rec/258
004459 should have creases!

Another good day tater!

Ed,

I don't believe for one second that Armstrong saw a wrinkled transfer.  He saw the same damn transfer that's in the photos we have.  Perfect.  

I don't believe a damn word that Armstrong says any more.  He had the same foundational information that I used when dismantling the bus ride story and he buried it in his ludicrous Harvey & Lee narrative.  He knew Oswald wasn't on that bus and he knew that Mary Bledsoe wasn't on the bus when she says she was.  I have absolutley no doubts whatsoever that he knew.  If he didn't, he's a bigger idiot than we first imagined.

Rather than pursue it the way I (Greg and Duke) pursued it and how you are now pursuing it, this clown decided that the information he had collected was better served in chasing a fucking ghost.  Just like the Warren Commission served to give us information chasing a second ghost - a second Roy Milton Jones - when there was ony one.

Correct, Armstrong saw the document which says the Archivist said it, 004459 had creases from folding.
He never saw a wrinkled transfer.

He thought he did. Which is odd. Unlike myself whom did see a wrinkled transfer but it was a History Channel fraud.

Where is original of 004451 though.

It was prepared to show the bus and cab drivers for their testimony.
It was never introduced.

Nothing odd there, Warren Commission business as usual

FORD Steps In,

Mr. McWATTERS - This is the inside, let's see, this is the driver right here. Here is your cross seat right here. Here, about back here, is where the lady got off who was sitting on this seat.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that with an "L"? L = Lady who got off bus

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here is the first. Right here is where the man that was sitting, got off, in this seat right here, I believe it is.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that "M" where the man who was sitting also got off who got the transfer?M = Man got off & transfer

Representative FORD - And the teenager was sitting in what seat?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that "0"? O = Teenager/Jones

Representative FORD - Where was the man standing who came to the bus and said the President had been shot?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here.

Representative FORD - On the step?

Mr. McWATTERS - On the step. I guess, I presume this would be the second step there. To the best of my recollection he stepped up on the first step.

Representative FORD - Mark that "P." P = Pres.ShotMan/Temple

Ford steps in

and he steps right out

he does the hokey-pokey

and he shakes it all about.

The designations are not in alpha order (there is no "n")

So... we can see "L" stands for Lady

"M" stands for (unidentified) Man

"P" stands for (unidentified) Person with news on President

Therefore... in Fordspeak... "O" cannot stand for "Teenager/Jones". Ford is surely saying that this is Oswald?

Lee Farley at February 7, 2015 at 8:38 AM

Ed Ledoux at February 7, 2015 at 7:38 AM

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 6:58 AM

Not 10 minutes. Not 15 or 20 or 25. 30 minutes.

Was thinking before about the 12:45 being considered am... and how that might actually make sense - but only if you bring it back to 12:15... because if for the sake of convenience, you accept 12 noon as am... then if you give a transfer at noon that is good for 15 minutes, it makes sense (I Think????) to perhaps extend to your time stretch to 12:15.

Is it possible then that Cecil added the half hour to make it 12:45 because of the half hour time difference you point out above? Does adding that half hour aleviate the issue, or have sucked up too many paint fumes tofday?  If I am confusing issues... ignore... I really don't know... just the half hour thing jumped out at me since I already had in mind about the 12:15 vs 12:45 issue...

Close!!!!!

1 is really PM

The company must back adjust the transfer for a tear at 12:45
This transfer would need to be PM as rider would be boarding at 1PM on another bus....OR the next bus, regardless of time torn.
and 12:15 12:30 are AM

Otherwise everything before 1 would be AM
Even 12:45


At Baylor I spotted Armstrongs "wrinkled transfer"
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34055/rec/258
004459 should have creases!

Another good day tater!

I get it now.

If 12:30 in the afternoon was punched PM then you could tear the ticket across the 1:00 o'clock section to get a later transfer out of the ticket.  If 12:30 is punched AM you can't tear across the 1:00 o'clock section and get a later transfer because it would show 1:00 AM.

So, if I departed a LAKEWOOD bus at LAMAR at 12:30 in the early hours of the morning and needed a transfer it would be punched PM.

Once again, Joseph Ball et al, FUCK YOU ALL for putting us through this.

So we can scratch out the possibility that this transfer was punched 12:30PM and made into a 1:00PM transfer because it would have been a 12:30AM transfer had it been given out before 1:00 PM.

Therefore, now that this is off the table as a possibility two options remain given the way the evidence was handled.

1.  Roy Milton Jones departed Cecil McWatters' bus to see what was going on when the sirens started and was given a transfer punched 1:00PM he reboarded once he had found out the President had been shot in the temple.  Problem with this scenario is the time JONES claimed he boarded the bus and also if this scenario were true there would be no need to not take the booklets from McWatters bus because the transfer would pan out sequentially.

2.  The transfer 0044459 was taken from McWatters' transfer booklet at 6:00pm the night of 11/22.  Problem with this scenario.  Nowt.  It's the reason why they didn't take the entire booklet and didn't go and retrieve the transfer receipts from Dallas Transit because this transfer would not have panned out sequentially.

I'm still sat on the side of the fence where Milton Jones was originally on the 12:10PM bus and then landed on McWatters bus.

Yes Milton gets on the 12:10 which get stuck before Houston or Record. The shooting happens.
Milton Jones wants to go see the comotion gets a transfer from the 12:10 bus at 12:30, punched as such, and runs down Elm a block to watch.
The 12:10 in the left lane gets through traffic, and is able to turn and is gone down Houston a bit after 12:30pm.
Milton seeing the traffic moving runs back down Elm, the 12:10 bus is gone, but he sees the 12:40 bus.
Milton runs up bangs on the door, not wanting to miss that bus, and gives the driver (Cecil) the transfer.
Sits in the first row of front facing seats. yada yada 

Problem: Should be an AM punched transfer. from the 12:10 bus.

Solution: Milton steps off 12:10 bus forgetting to ask for a transfer. Bus takes off and Milton runs back and catches 12:40.

Problem: Milton mentions nothing of the sort. Driver says man got on mid block at Murphy. Even if Man and Milton are the same, the man exits and Milton rides to Marsalis for the laughing scenario.

More general Problems:
Transfer 004459 is PM, it was never dusted or chemically processed for fingerprints.
We only have Sims word he found the transfer in LHO's pocket.
We don't have evidence of Sims prints on the transfer to verify such. We do have a sworn statement, initials on the back, and testimony.
Odd that it was carefully placed in a evidence envelope flown to DC, given a lab number, but was only photographed by the exhibits section of the FBI and no "lab" work was done.

Therefore there is really only circumstantial evidence it is found on LHO or that LHO placed that transfer in that shirt pocket.
Sims and Boyd alone in the holding room search LHO.
Boyd doesn't know where Sims found the transfer on LHO.
Boyd was busy finding bullets in a pocket previously searched at the theater. oy vey

Ed Ledoux at February 7, 2015 at 7:53 PM

Now recall the testimony I put up from Cecil about the Lady standing and paying her fare when she got on.
While she was paying Cecil said that is where the conversation about the shooting/laughing took place.
M would have gotten off asking for a transfer while L was boarding and paying , she may too have asked for a transfer then
The conversation happens next.
It is Cecil, O and L at this time having a "laugh". No M and no P.

P can not have had a conversation about the shooting with Cecil and O while L was on board seated in a seat.
L should not be on the bus yet. L should board across Marsalis Bridge and then hear the Laughing Conversation.


Ford is using this diagram as a SNAPSHOT in time.

Representative FORD - Now, after the man who was standing at "P" said the President was shot, what did the lady do who was sitting in "L"?


Ford has LMOP all on the bus at the same time

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, the lady, she had a suitcase sitting right there beside me and she left. When the lady got up and said she would like to get off the bus, and that she was going to walk to the Union Station and asked me if I would give her a transfer in case that I caught up with her, and asked me if I would pick her up.

Representative FORD - You gave her a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Representative FORD - What happened?

Mr. McWATTERS - She got off and by the time when she was talking to me that is when he got up, this gentleman here in the seat got up, at seat "M" got off. In other words, the door was never closed of the bus from the time the gentleman stepped up in the door of that there, in other words, when he said what he did, and got on back in his car, in other words, the lady got off, and the man got off, too, both at the same stop.In other words, the bus hadn't moved at that stop.

REAAALLLLYYY!!

Ford has the P guy telling Cecil and the L lady about the shooting!!!
Cecil was supposed to be telling the lady about it. (Bledsoe whom is not on the bus)
L is getting off with a suitcase not hanging around for the Cecil and Milton show.
Although L would be standing to get off she may have not heard P or was distracted by her suitcase, it safe to say anything said to Cecil from spot P should be heard by both L and Cecil equally. Was P whispering to Cecil so as not to upset passengers?

This diagram and story would work if L gets off after P says the presidents been shot, and M also exits, the bus with just O stays on for drive across Marsalis Bridge and pick up of Bledsoe, where O and Cecil have a laugh while Bledsoe pays her fare. Back to our
Armstongs notes has Cecil saying P came up and told him the presidents been shot after he crossed Marsalis.
and she would be doing a transaction, getting a transfer (not paying)

Mr. BALL - Tell me when you issued it, on what run?

Mr. McWATTERS - I issued it on Marsalis and Munger line at I would say, around to the best of my knowledge it would be around 12:40 or somewheres in that vicinity on November 22.

So options are 12:45 PM transfer being retorn to show 1 0'clock pm (which is why drivers just skip to 1pm)
A 1pm transfer from the 12:40 Lamar bus
A really late 12:10 Lamar bus, with AM transfers, driver may have a PM book, and issues a 12:45 - 1PM transfer, or that driver is new and tears off, and then punches every transfer from a book individually (rookie)
Although in Cecils famous video the transfers were not punched at all. A faulty demonstration or whistle blower?

Okay back to our diagram!!

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And I first got off at Neiman's and I---the parade didn't come on, and I kept walking on up, and walked in front of Titche's over on that side there, and I saw the parade there. He passed--I saw the President, oh, I was happy I got to see him. And--so then I got on across and went over to the Athletic Club, and caught the bus. Athletic Club closed in '54, and moved but in '63 the building housed Mr. Mc Lean, a hair expert of Jack Ruby's, at 1805 Elm at St.Paul.

Mr. BALL - What bus did you catch?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, I don't remember whether it was the Marsalis or the Romana. Ramona bus at Lamar would be 12:30.  That bus is very close to Cecil's in Time And Route.

Mr. BALL - Both go by your house, do they? What was the last one?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - The Marsalis.

Mr. BALL - What was the second name?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Romana.

Mr. BALL - And both go west on Elm?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right--so, I got on the bus, and while it was awfully crowded there----

Mr. BALL - You mean crowded on the bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; outside.

Mr. BALL - Were there many people on the bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

Mr. BALL - How many people on the bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, about 10.

Mr. BALL - And what was the location on Elm where you boarded this bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - At the Athletic Club.

Mr. BALL - What cross street is that, do you remember?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - St. Paul.

Mr. BALL - St. Paul? You got on at St. Paul? St. Paul and Elm?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL - And the bus was going in what direction?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - West.

Mr. BALL - All right, now, tell me what happened?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And, after we got past Akard, at Murphy---I figured it out. Let's see. I don't know for sure. Oswald got on. He looks like a maniac. His sleeve was out here [indicating]. His shirt was undone.

Mr. BALL - You are indicating a sleeve of a shirt?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. BALL - It was unraveled?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Was a hole in it, hole, and he was dirty, and I didn't look at him. I didn't want to know 1 even seen him, and I just looked off, and then about that time the motorman said the President had been shot, and I sit--when I go to town I sit this way on the bus. The motorman is right there [indicating], and I sit right there so that I can get off. She is saying what Cecil said, that she got on was paying her fare (Standing)

Mr. BALL - You mean--where do you sit with reference to the motorman, one seat or two seats behind him?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't--the motorman is here, and I sit across in the seat across the way.

Mr. BALL - Now, on this day when you boarded the bus, is that the seat you took?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - I always did.

Mr. BALL - Would that be the first seat on the right-hand side?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. BALL - First seat on the bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well----

Miss DOUTHIT - Side seat.

Mr. BALL - Oh, it is a side seat? Was that side seat so that you were facing the motorman?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL - When Oswald got on, you then weren't facing him, were you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; but I saw that it was him.

Mr. BALL - How close did he pass to you as he boarded the bus?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Just in front of me. Just like this [indicating].

Mr. BALL - Just a matter of a foot or two?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL - When he got on the bus, did he say anything to the motorman?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, the motorman? I think--I don't know. I don't know.

Mr. BALL - Where did he sit?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - He sat about halfway back down.

Mr. BALL - On what side?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - On the same side I was on.

Mr. BALL - Same side

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No, sir.

OKAY WHERE IS THE DIAGRAM, THE ONE ABOVE, THE ONE SHE COULD HAVE SHOWN WITH A LETTER LIKE N WHERE SHE WAS, AND ANOTHER LETTER FOR HER OSWALD PERHAPS Q....
BALL FORGOT HE COULD USE IT?
DIAGRAM IS TOO CONFUSING FOR BLEDSOE OR BALL? 
Douthit refused to admit any Bledsoe exhibits?....sound familiar? Mrs. Paine and her should join a Calendar Club!!

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 9:20 PM

 

FORD Steps In,

Mr. McWATTERS - This is the inside, let's see, this is the driver right here. Here is your cross seat right here. Here, about back here, is where the lady got off who was sitting on this seat.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that with an "L"? L = Lady who got off bus

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here is the first. Right here is where the man that was sitting, got off, in this seat right here, I believe it is.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that "M" where the man who was sitting also got off who got the transfer?M = Man got off & transfer

Representative FORD - And the teenager was sitting in what seat?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here.

Representative FORD - Will you mark that "0"? O = Teenager/Jones

Representative FORD - Where was the man standing who came to the bus and said the President had been shot?

Mr. McWATTERS - Right here.

Representative FORD - On the step?

Mr. McWATTERS - On the step. I guess, I presume this would be the second step there. To the best of my recollection he stepped up on the first step.

Representative FORD - Mark that "P." P = Pres.ShotMan/Temple

Ford steps in

and he steps right out

he does the hokey-pokey

and he shakes it all about.

The designations are not in alpha order (there is no "n")

So... we can see "L" stands for Lady

"M" stands for (unidentified) Man

"P" stands for (unidentified) Person with news on President

Therefore... in Fordspeak... "O" cannot stand for "Teenager/Jones". Ford is surely saying that this is Oswald?

I wondered what Ford was trying to spell...Didn't think he was cheerleading....Gimme An O!

O for Oswald would be logical.

Okay let me re-do this part.

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Was a hole in it, hole, and he was dirty, and I didn't look at him. I didn't want to know I even seen him, and I just looked off, and then about that time the motorman said the President had been shot, and I sit--when I go to town I sit this way on the bus. The motorman is right there [indicating], and I sit right there so that I can get off.

She is saying that Cecil said the president has been shot as O or Oswald is getting on, and that it sounds like she is remembering she got on was paying her fare (Standing) and then sat (sit) down, explaining why she 'sit' there after she heard the President had been shot, so she could off quickly, and run to the neighbors to tell them.

Mr. BALL - Do you remember anyone knocking on the door, and as a result, the motorman opened the front door?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

Mr. BALL - Would that be the first seat on the right-hand side?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

She is right next to the door! Unless she is across the bridge when she gets on and is not there for the door knocking episode.

Oy Vey.

Mr. BALL - Is there a bus stop near your home?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right in front of the house.

The other option was the one Lee or Greg pointed out way back when, that the suitcase lady was the Marsalis Bridge lady whom was crossing the street with a package.

Mr. BALL - You went on over to Houston Viaduct into the Oak Cliff section, didn't you?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; to the Oak Cliff section.

Mr. BALL - And there was some conversation occurred on that bus that you told the FBI officers about?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Tell us what that was?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, there was a teenage boy, I would say 17 or 18 years of age who was sitting to my right on the first cross seat and me and him had, we had conversationed a little while we was tied up in the traffic, you know, of the fact of we wondered where all, what all the excitement was due to the fact of the sirens and others, and after I turned on Houston Street I said to him and I made the remark, I wonder where the President was shot, and I believe he made the remark that it was probably in the head if he was in a convertible or something to that effect. I don't remember just exactly the way we worded it or what it was, but it was a conversation about the President, in other words, to where he was shot. In other words, and he made the remark or something, he was probably shot in the head, if he was sitting in a convertible or to that effect. I really don't know just exactly at that time. Just like I say I never thought anything about it.

Mr. BALL - Didn't some lady say something?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, yes, sir.

Now, as we got on out on Marsalis, along about it was either Edgemont or Vermont, I believe it was Vermont Street, there was a lady who was fixing to cross the intersection and I stopped and asked her if she was going to catch the bus into town from the opposite direction, and she said that she was and I told her that we was off schedule,
He saw the 12:10 had gone by him already
that the other bus had done went into town, and I asked her did she care to just ride on to the end of the line and come back and she wouldn't have to stand there and wait, and she was getting on, and I asked her had she heard the news of the President being shot, at the time that was all I knew about it, and she said, "No, what are you--you are just kidding me."

I said, "No, I really am not kidding you." I said, "It is the truth from all the reliable sources that we have come in contact with," and this teenage boy sitting on the side, I said "Well, now, if you think I am kidding you," I said, "Ask this gentleman sitting over here," and he kind of, I don't know whether it was a grinning or smile or whatever expression it was, and she said, "I know you are kidding now, because he laughed or grinned or made some remark to that effect."

And I just told her no it wasn't no kidding matter, but that was part of the conversation that was said at that time.

Conversation takes place with a woman boarding a bus whom was crossing the street about Vermont whom must have had a suitcase, meaning she was catching a bus/cab, or she empty handed walked across to the stop inbound when Cecil spoke to her probably from his bus window. This is too far down Marsalis to be near Bledsoes residence. Not Bledsoe.
But it is about 12 blocks farther down the run to BrownleeSt., where Milton would exit the bus.
So Milton the Vermont lady and Cecil have a Laugh. Only way Mary Bledsoe would know is if she missed her drop off or was inbound from her house and the stop right outside, she too would ride to the end of the line and come back.

Where does that leave us, was Mary downtown, did she ride a bus, did she ride a 12:30 Ramona, or a 12:40 Marsalis?
If the Ramona, how did she know about the laughing boy, I realized the DPD told her about the transfer, but did she learn everything about Cecils bus trip through the DPD "questioning" ? Good question. Was Douthit there? j/k


What makes sense is Cecil in his first day statement after 6:30pm, he said he picked up a man about a block from Houston and went out Marsalis where he picked up a woman, had a conversation where man aka Milton grins, to which she says its not a grinning matter which Cecil would parrot back.
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338154/m1/1/
It says transfer 004459 is from his bus, and has his punch, but mentions nothing about whom if anyone he gave that or any transfers to.
And it does say shot in the TEMPLE.

Mary in her first day affidavit said : http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339150/m1/1/?q=mary%20bledsoe

That the bus she rode made a stop at Murphy street.  The Man / Oswald got on rode two three blocks.
By connecting the broken english I read, 'During the time the bus was stopped someone made statement the president had been shot. While stopped in heavy traffic the Man/Oswald gets off.
She knows him because he lived at her house.
Not that he rented a room, or was a renter, room mate or tenant, but lived at my house.
But she just happens to know those dates for those two weeks he "lived" at her house so perfectly its as if she had her calendar there to show Patsy Collins.:lol:
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339150/m1/1/?q=mary%20bledsoe

Is this the worst getaway in history?

Walk seven blocks observing the commotion, the road blocks, the stopped traffic... and get on a stopped bus heading back into all that.

He was never on that bus.

The other option was the one Lee or Greg pointed out way back when,

Not this little black duck, Ed. I haven't contributed anything but my own beffuddlement, mixed with awe for the rest of you.

that the suitcase lady was the Marsalis Bridge lady whom was crossing the street with a package.

I don't suppose she was on her way to Randle residence by any chance? 

John Mooney at February 8, 2015 at 3:16 AM

Is this the worst getaway in history?

 

Walk seven blocks observing the commotion, the road blocks, the stopped traffic... and get on a stopped bus heading back into all that.

 

He was never on that bus.

A fine line between madness and genius... who would suspect someone on a bus driving into the eye of the storm?

But otherwsie yer right, John. No way no how on that bus. 

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340552/m1/1/?q=mcwatters

In the hand written affidavit, Lee pointed out, Mcwatters had down as Marsalis for drop off of Man / Milton M.

"...but I believe I let him of at Marsalis..."

Here he is unsure but remembers letting someone off there. If not the man who?
Is it Marsalis and Houston Viaduct area? or ON Marsalis he would have made a stop.
But the man is Milton, so he scratches out Marsalis, and would not know Milton lived on Brownlee till next ride with Milton.

Bledsoe must be on the Ramona bus.
Why is she not asked where she got off?

We know she rode a bus downtown, right?

Mr. BALL - The 22d of November the President came to Dallas.

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And I first got off at Neiman's

Sounds to me like she would have gotten a SHOPPERS TRANSFER!!!