REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Greg, Lee, All, good news.

I submit to you one complete book of Dallas Transit Company Shoppers Transfers!

As Lee Farley said "The bus transfer is the most curious item involved in this whole affair. If he wasn’t on the bus then how did he get it? Why did it take the DPD two hours to find it? How did they find out it was McWatters who punched it?"

First the transfers I have are issued for Sunday June 1959

Manufactured by the Southwest Globe Ticket Co. Dallas - Would become Globe

They are for the same route, Marsalis Bus 1213 would use these.

The book starts with transfer 019651 on top and run down to 019700.

Fifty tickets in a booklet.

Signature is of Vice Pres. would switch to Pres. in '63

I can do some tests with the transfers but they are cheap thin paper and would fold and wrinkle instantly in a pocket and would just end up looking like this:

Size of these transfers are rather small flimsy thin paper, I had expected a ticket like an airline ticket.

The size is 7 1/2" x 2" for the booklet.

A ticket torn like 004459 is 4 1/2" long slightly shorter than the average shirt pocket of 4 3/4 - 5".

Ink pen for size comparison:

Note size of original 004459 next to a PO box key.

Every Transfer has instructions printed on the back.

Which state "How to get shoppers free return trip ticket, upon boarding any inbound transit vehicle between 10:00am and 2:00pm ask the operator for a shoppers transfer; purchase $1 or more of merchandise in any one of the participating stores below; pesent your salesslip and this transfer to the transfer desk in THAT STORE, and receive your FREE RETUR RIDE TRANSIT TICKET, which must be used before 4:01 or after 7:00pm

(see list of stores on picture) Watch your daily newspaper ads for names of participating stores.

The back of the book of transfers, note booklets are numbered.

(Note:inside rear cover is blank) Question is what booklet number was LHO's transfer from?

Was the receipt from the inside back cover of the booklet?

Here is the real question: Who wants to contact the archives and see if they have transfer 004451 and the receipt. IF THEY DO then we must get a copy of both sides of each item. If my theory is correct the receipt was written on the blank back cover and the back of 004451 has instructions on it. I know the archives has 004459, I called and had them check, but I did not ask for a copy of the back! [:roll:] drats!

Usually with documents and evidence they photograph and copy each side, just look at other evidence. WHAT is on the back/reverse of 004459?

Upon trying to see if its doable to tear transfers from the bottom of a book.... You would need to flip the book upside down to be able to tear from the bottom of the book. Then you can not see where you are tearing. I know your saying well you just peel back the transfer till what you want is showing, ie the 1 and 0, then you fold and tear it. It just doesn't work, takes both hands, is inconvient and pointless. You would open the booklet, place a guide(straight edge, finger, what have you) across the 1 and 0 and tear. Simple and easy. Doing it backwards is not. Only a small staple holds the booklet together, and each transfer is perforated.

What did the front office think about the backwards method? I guess it really doesn't matter as to which exact transfer was given when but sure seems easier business wise if its done in numerical sequence....but I digress.

"Concerning the transfer, I will leave you with this. We do know that the DPD confiscated the book of transfers from Cecil McWatters. Whether it was definitely the same book that Oswald's transfer was allegedly issued from is anyone’s guess because the actual book was never photographed. We do know "a" book was taken because a receipt was given for it. The receipt has the following written on the back“Receipt for the book of transfers from which transfer was issued to Oswald the accused assin of Pres, John F. Kennedy.” What is tantalising about this receipt is what it was written on. What is even more tantalising is the number of the thing it was written on. Receipt 004451. I’ll leave it up to everyone’s imagination to make their own sense out of what this could potentially mean" ~Lee Farley
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17269

The photo copy of 004451 and the receipt, aka Exhibit No 9, look like they were laid side by side and photocopied at the same time!
If this is the case, and I suspect I am correct, then the receipt is on the rear inside cover and the reverse would show the booklet number that these transfers came from.
And the reverse of 004451 or 004459 would have the shoppers transfer instructions on them.

Its a good day tatter!

Ed, you sly dog. Great detective work.

Can we get a volunteer to make the phone call? If this pans out as expected... it's not just a good day. It's a bloody little ripper. 

Thanks Greg,

I've looked at it ten ways to sunday and the receipt and 004451 appear to have mirrored tear outs.
Or near mirrored tear outs.
Need best copy of No 9 from archives at least to make final that they are same item or two items side by side.
If they are exactly mirrored tear out around the staple area then 'they' may be one item.
IOW it could very well be the receipt was written on the back of 004451.
it does look as if they match..
So were they torn out exactly the same? I doubt it. But if 004451 was next to rear cover (the receipt), or on the bottom and they both were torn out they would look like what we see in exhibit No 9.  see my overlay


Both overlaid to show match for tear out.
Could it still be two items? Anything is possible in this case.
Match also as said before may mean it is Transfer 004451 reverse side and that means transfers were NOT printed with instructions on the back of the transfers in 1963. I find that hard to believe! It would be like a valet ticket without a disclaimer!!

Looks like two items could not have been torn from a booklet in a similar fashion:
The rear cover and, the top transfer/first transfer (or a simply a transfer sequentialy numbered 8 transfers before  004459) as there would be 9 transfers worth of stub between the rear cover and 004451 when they were torn this would interfere with such a similar tear out shape. Of course 004459 would not be the last transfer in any booklet 004460 could be, unless the booklet was used backwards.
This holds true even should Globe switched to booklets of ten transfers in '63 (not that I think they did)
This would hold true if Mcwatters only took ten transfers with him from a full booklet (not that I think this happened or is at all likely).
So did Globe stop printing the instructions on the back of transfers?

Exhibit No 9 holds much to see!

Where exactly is the original transfer 004451, at the archives .... ?
Oh so we don't get duped we need archivist to have a mirror held so you can get image of both front and back at same time. That way nothing can impune that evidence.

We need front/rear image of each item, especially of "Oswald's transfer" 004459, we do need to see the reverse side!!!
Most important as this will show if printed instructions exists on backs of 1963 transfers and answer questions raised.
004451 we need to see both sides in a mirror.
Receipt, same as above.

Although the transfer supposedly found on LHO was small 4 1/2 x 2" of thin paper it seems unlikely to be missed in a search of the shirt / pocket.
Possible, if the search of the shirt was conducted by Mr Magoo wearing winter mittens...

More likely is LHO was never on a bus, never had a transfer, never needed a transfer, but one was supplied for him.

Sitting here nodding all the way through I as I read it.

Thanks Greg!
Interesting we have never seen the back of the 'transfer' 004459.
I'm so damn interested to see what is on the reverse! Does anyone know if its been seen? EVER? No one ever has asked for the back? It must be in an image database somewhere
Most all archived documents are copied front and rear, even when there is nothing on the reverse.
They should have this ready to go for us. Hehehe
Again I want to see it in a mirror, so we don't get fooled again, to quote a great rock song.

bump (we need a volunteer to phone the achives)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_381.pdf

The Back of 381a or a photocopy of 004459

Sans reverse instructions on 004459, one can safely say 004451 is "the receipt"
and Globe did stop printing Shopper Transfers instructions on the reverse side.

Next is testing. I can complete a detailed experiment where I will match LHO's movements and actions alledged and see how well a shirt pocket protects a flimsy transfer from crinkles, wrinkles, folds, creases and dog ears.

Ed Ledoux at January 31, 2015 at 2:36 AM

Sans reverse instructions on 004459, one can safely say 004451 is "the receipt"
and Globe did stop printing Shopper Transfers instructions on the reverse side.

Next is testing. I can complete a detailed experiment where I will match LHO's movements and actions alledged and see how well a shirt pocket protects a flimsy transfer from crinkles, wrinkles, folds, creases and dog ears.

Ed, 

they may have stopped printing on the back cos most using it would be elderly and I'd assume an occasional complaint would be made about the print being too small to read. My guess is that between 1959 and '63 they ppsted the instructions inside the bus in largish print.

There are a couple of issues for... first obviously arises if 51 and 59 came from same book...

The other issue seems to be that all transfer tickers were printed as "shopper's transfer" but could only be used as a shoppers transfer with McWatters punch mark. Without the punch-mark, it was just your ordinary run-of-the-mill transfer -  but with it, it is now a SHOPPER'S TRANSFER.

Was going to copy and paste McWatters' testimony on this, but it is truly excritiating. But the sense I get is that  Mcwatters himself all but rules ticket 59 out as being given to Oswald - because as above - the punch mark transforms it into a shopper's transfer. McWatters' does say you have to specifically ask for a shoppers transer (presumably otherwise you just get it without the punch hole).  Once it has that punch hole, it is useless unless you go spend a buck. Oswald just wanted to get home - not go shopping. And McWatters actually tells them it is in the majority of cases only old ladies who ask for them.

McWatters had absolutely no reason to punch that ticket. If Oswald was on that bus, all he needed was the ticket. With that punch hole - he COULD NOT JUST GO AND HOP ANOTHER BUS.

At least, that is what I get from it. The punch hole 

Screw it.

I'll post the testimony afterall.. see what you guys can make of it...:) 

Mr. McWATTERS - I really don't know because I didn't, see, I didn't know anything--I didn't put out any--most of the transfers that you put out at this time or that time of day are for elderly women which get the shopper's transfers, in other words. It has got a line there, and it entitles them to a free ride back to where they came from in other words, and that time of the morning, because when I get downtown, in other words, you can catch a bus at Elm Street going to any place that I would go without having a transfer, in other words.

-----------------------------------

Mr. BALL - Mr. McWatters, on this transfer is the name of Shopper's Transfer. Does that have any significance?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is what I was telling him. In other words, if they want a Shoppers; well I put my punch mark in that Shoppers there, which they cannot use it for a transfer, in other words, any more than other than--all the stores, most of them in downtown Dallas, if you buy as much as a dollar's worth between the period of ten and four in the afternoon they give you a little white slip which entitled you to ride what is called the Shopper's Pass. It rides you back, but in other words you have to, a passenger has to, ask for it in other words.

When they say a Shopper, you take a punch and punch your punch mark where it says Shoppers, but they are not supposed to use the transfer then to transfer to another bus. They are supposed, in other words, where it is punched in the store, get it exchanged for their return fare.

Mr. BALL - In other words, all your transfers have on them printed the word "Shopper's Transfer"?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; they do.

Mr. BALL - And in order to make it a Shopper's Transfer so that the transfer can be exchanged for a merchandise coupon to ride home, it has to have your punch in the Shopper's Transfer area, is that right?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct, yes, sir.

If I am right, that punch hole has just proved Oswald was not on the bus.

Another marvelous example of using the WC itself to destroy the opinions of the WC.

It always has been its own worst critic.

Terry Martin at January 31, 2015 at 5:43 AM

Another marvelous example of using the WC itself to destroy the opinions of the WC.

It always has been its own worst critic.

Terry, I can't believe I never saw it before, but sometimes it takes a thread as excellent as this to make you focus.

Here is the killer blow from McWatters again and given the Fez treatment, for no other reason than I'm feeling a bit fezzy, but I'll get over it - if they want a Shoppers; well I put my punch mark in that Shoppers there, which they cannot use it for a transfer, in other words, any more than other than--all the stores

An interesting part of the transfers is the instructions on the front:

"Good within 15 minutes of the time indicated on the date issued only, at first point of intersection or transfer point, on connecting lines, except to vicinity of starting point."

Mr. BALL - What course did you take, what part of Dallas did you drive in.

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I went from.

Mr. BALL - Describe it generally, you don't need to go into any detail.

Mr. McWATTERS - I would say from northeast Dallas in the Lakewood addition of Dallas to the Oak Cliff addition of Dallas, which is, would be southwest.

Okay he is a Lakewood to Oak Cliff bus.
004459 was punched Lakewood and PM, and torn across at the 1 and 0.

Mr. BALL - There is a place near the downtown area of Dallas where you timed your run, wasn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I have after I get into town, when I get into the downtown part of it, now St. Paul Street is my official time point going in, where they have a supervisor that stays at this checkpoint there, to check all incoming vehicles.

Mr. BALL - You would be coming in from northeast Dallas at that time?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; I am coming in from the Lakewood addition of Dallas, which I came in on. The main thoroughfare is Gaston Avenue.

Again he is a Lakewood start point, thus transfer would not be usable to vicinity of starting point, ie Lakewood?
Only way to get back to Lakewood would be via a Shoppers Transfer, a dollar spent in a participating store, and hop the next Lakewood run during specified times.
To get back to Lakewood you would need to pay the fair.

Mr. BALL - You were beyond Field and before you got to Griffin?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is right. It was along about even with Griffin Street before I was stopped in the traffic.

Mr. BALL - And that is about seven or eight blocks from the Texas Book Depository Building, isn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir. It would be seven, I would say that is seven, it would be about seven blocks.

Mr. BALL - From there?

Mr. McWATTERS - From there, yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - What did the man look like who knocked on your door and got on your bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I didn't pay any particular attention to him. He was to me just dressed in what I would call work clothes, just some type of little old jacket on, and I didn't pay any particular attention to the man when he got on-

Mr. BALL - Paid his fare, did he?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; he just paid his fare and sat down on the second cross seat on the right.

Mr. BALL - Do you remember whether or not you gave him a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - Not when he got on; no, sir.

Mr. BALL - You let him on the bus, and he paid his fare, how much is that fare?

Mr. McWATTERS - It is 23 cents.

Mr. McWATTERS - Now, he paid as far as from St. Paul Street. I made--there wasn't any traffic holding me up whatsoever, I come on right down to where I picked the man up there, in other words, about Field, and that is where the traffic was starting to back up to. So the best of my knowledge I would say it took me 3 or 4 minutes to get down there, so I will just have to say it was in the vicinity of around 12:40.


St. Paul is his STARTING POINT. So transfers would not take you back to starting point, the St.Paul Street vicinity.

McWatters doesn't say he picked up a man at Poydras/Lamar and Elm.
He states and swears in his first day affidavit that he picked up a man Lower End Of Town on Elm around Houston.

Senator COOPER - May I ask a question?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Have you testified that you saw this passenger whom you later recognized in the lineup, get on the bus in the vicinity of Murphy Street--is Murphy Street on your right?

Mr. McWATTERS - Murphy Street is the street that, in other words, that comes in--

Senator COOPER - Does it run into Elm Street?

Mr. McWATTERS - It runs into Elm Street, it dead ends, in other words, into Elm Street.

Here is Field Street, in other words, across this intersection and we stopped across the intersection of Field, and Murphy Street comes in to the intersection at about where the bus stops, in other words, where Field Street stops and I guess that Griffin is the next small street that comes in just, it is just a short distance below.

Senator COOPER - Well, did the passenger that you have testified about, and whom you stated that you later identified, did he get on in the vicinity of Murphy Street?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Murphy Street--you proceeded from Murphy Street toward the Texas School Book Depository?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Is that correct?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.

Senator COOPER - Was the passenger that got on near Murphy Street the same passenger that you later have testified about who told you that the President had been shot in the temple?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they told me later that it was, but at the time they didn't tell me.

Senator COOPER - Who didn't tell you?

Mr. McWATTERS - The police didn't.

Senator COOPER - When you say this passenger got on near Murphy Street, was there anything about him that caused you to take notice of him particularly?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, no, sir. I wouldn't say there was. He was, I would say, he didn't have on no suit or anything, he had on, I believe, some type of jacket, cloth jacket.

Senator COOPER - What caused you to remember him getting on?

Mr. McWATTERS - What caused me to remember?

Senator COOPER - Yes; at the time he got on.

Mr. McWATTERS - Because, the reason I remembered exactly because I didn't put out but two transfers, and that, in other words, from where he got on and everything, I didn't have but one, there wasn't but one man on the bus and that was the teenage boy, when he got on the bus, in other words, when he got off, he was the only man except the teenage boy who was on the bus at the time.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_377.pdf

Cecil says nothin about picking up a man at Lamar/Poydras in his affidavit.

Mr. McWATTERS - He has rode with me since.

Mr. BALL - Yes. I see. Did you give him a transfer that day?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, because he gets on and he lives within about two blocks of the busline, in other words, where he gets off.

Mr. BALL - Do you know this boy's name?

Mr. McWATTERS - I believe his name is Milton Jones.
......

Mr. BALL - You were not under the impression then that night when you saw the lineup that the No. 2 man in the lineup was the man who got off the bus, to whom you had given a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is what I say. In other words, when I told them, I said, the only way is the man, that he is smaller, in other words, he kind of had a thin like face and he weighs less than any one of them. The only one I could identify at all would be the smaller man on account he was the only one who could come near fitting the description.

Mr. BALL - Let me ask you this, though. Did you tell them the man, the smaller man, you saw in the lineup, did you tell them that you thought he was the man who got off your bus and got the transfer or the man who was on the bus who was the teenager who was grinning?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I really thought he was the man who was on the bus.

Mr. BALL - That stayed on the bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - That stayed on the bus.

Mr. BALL - And you didn't think he was the man who got off the bus and to whom you gave a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Mr. BALL - At that time you didn't?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is why I say I pinpointed that transfer on that boy as far as that is concerned. But at first, just like I say, I really thought from the height and weight of the two men, 1 mean was just like I say, was both of them were small. In the lineup they had, in other words, bigger men, in other words, he was the smallest man at the lineup-

Mr. BALL - As I understand it, neither then nor now are you able to identify or say that you have again seen the man that got off your bus to whom you gave a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; I couldn't. I could not identify him.

Mr. BALL - Can you transfer from your bus to the Beckley bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; sure can.

Mr. BALL - Any particular transfer point?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, there are particular transfer points, but we don't question anybody within the downtown section with a transfer.

Mr. BALL - If you gave a transfer to your bus, then that transfer would be good on a Beckley bus any place along Elm, wouldn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is right, it sure would.

Mr. BALL - Up to the place where you change courses?

Mr. McWATTERS - It would be accepted; yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Your course is westerly on Elm, is identical with that of the Beckley bus between St. Paul and Houston, isn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.

Mr. BALL - And from that point you go south on Houston, and the Beckley bus continues west on Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.

Mr. BALL - So that would be a normal transfer point, wouldn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Houston and Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - That would be a transfer. In other words, now, like I say, Lamar is the general transfer point of where all the buses cross.

Now, I show you this document which is the bus schedule of Marsalis-Ramona-Elwood- Munger, and it shows you leave St. Paul at 12:36 and you arrive at Lamar 12:40.

The bus transfers are punched you told me for 1 o'clock. We have a transfer here that you have seen or we will show you in a few minutes as soon as it gets here, which has a punch mark of 1 o'clock. You told Senator Cooper that you usually punched within 15 minutes of the time you reached the transfer points?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Mr. BALL - If that is the case, what--

Mr. McWATTERS - You mean why did I have it punched at 1 o'clock?

Mr. BALL - Yes.

Mr. McWATTERS - Because I punch it p.m. In other words, I have a punch, I am going to Lakewood, I mean I am going Marsalis and I am going back Lakewood, so I just take me two books of transfers. Instead of punching one of them a.m. and one p.m. I just punched them p.m.

Mr. BALL - Do you punch within 15 minutes of the time you reach the transfer points?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is the way that the transfers are supposed to be cut.

Mr. BALL - Well, if you reach Lamar, if you were to reach Lamar at 12:40, what time, according to the rules should you punch it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I should have punched it at 12:45.

Mr. BALL - At 12:45?

Mr. McWATTERS - But I would have to punch one book a.m. and another one p.m., so I just punched both of them p.m.

Mr. BALL - In other words, what you do is punch on the hour rather than the 45 and 15 minutes usually?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Mr. BALL - In other words, your usual practice is not to punch on the 15-minute interval, is that right, but to punch on the hour?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, just like I say within the closest of the hour like that, in other words.

Mr. BALL - Suppose today you were wanting to punch some transfers at the end of the line and you knew you were going to get to Lamar at 12:40. Would you punch--what would you punch it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I work that run all the time, I punch at 1 o'clock every day. As I say I worked it 2 years and as I say in order to keep from punching one of them a.m. and one p.m., for the difference in the hour there, I just punch them p.m.

Mr. BALL - I don't quite understand that. Doesn't your p.m. start at after 12 o'clock?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, the way the transfers are there, did you notice how they was, they run them until--see how 12:45 there, in other words, that is what they use that up to a.m. in other words.

Mr. BALL - It is 12:45 a.m., it runs up to a.m.

Mr. McWATTERS - That is what they run it to a.m. In other words, after 12:45 or in there, in other words, everything is punched p.m.

Mr. BALL - In other words, everything in the hour from 12 on is punched a.m., the day time, 12 to one is a.m., 12 to 12:45, for that hour, a transfer good in that hour is punched a.m., is that right?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, it can be punched a.m. up to, just like 12:45.

Mr. BALL - And the next punch is 1 o'clock and that is p.m?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is p.m.; yes, sir. That is the way they have them.

Representative FORD - The day that you punched this particular transfer. November 22?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Representative FORD - You punched them the same that day as you did every other day?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is right. Every day, in other words, I just punch them p.m. I punch them p.m., and in other words, so it will be just a straight cut across it.

Representative FORD - Is that the usual practice for all bus drivers to use this practice?

Mr. McWATTERS - The practice they are supposed to cut them within the quarter of the hour, but in other words, I just have been working that run and I just, it is p.m., and I just make one trip one way and one, back the other, and so I--all I carry are two books of transfers and so I just punch two books p.m., using one going one way at 1 o'clock and the other coming back at 2.

Representative FORD - This is the practice you have used for 2 years approximately?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is right, when I worked that run, in other words, when I am going one way at 1 o'clock, coming back from the other end of the line I set them at 2. I am back in there at, my next trip I am back in there at Lamar Street, I think it is 1:38 but I always just set them at 2 o'clock.

Mr. BALL - We have a couple of more pictures here. 378 and 379 which are pictures of the interior of the bus--Nos. 379 and 380.

(Picture marked for identification as Commission Exhibit No. 374 is the same as Commission Exhibit No. 379.)

I will first show you 379. Is that a picture of the bus from front to rear of your bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is the front and that is the rear.

Mr. BALL - Here is 380, is that a picture of the bus taken from the front taken looking towards the rear?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - I offer these in evidence, too.

Representative FORD - So admitted.

(The pictures referred to were marked Commission's Exhibits Nos. 379 and 380 and received in evidence.)

Mr. BALL - I have here an exhibit which I would like to have marked as 381 which can be identified as a transfer issued by Dallas Transit Company, Friday, November 22, 1963.

Do you identify it, can you tell me, if you have ever seen that transfer before?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, that is my punch mark right on that there; p.m.

(The transfer was marked Commission Exhibit No. 381 for identification.)

Mr. BALL - You issued it, did you?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Tell me when you issued it, on what run?

Mr. McWATTERS - I issued it on Marsalis and Munger line at I would say, around to the best of my knowledge it would be around 12:40 or somewheres in that vicinity on November 22.

Mr. BALL - And it has your punch mark, has it?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is my punch mark.

Mr. BALL - Identify it punched in the p.m. section?

Mr. McWATTERS - Of the Lakewood column here on the transfer.

Mr. BALL - When did you punch it exactly? Where were you when you punched it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I punched it before I left the end of the line, in other words.

Mr. McWATTERS - I can recognize my own punchmark. I don't think there is supposed to be another--

Senator COOPER - Is there anything else on the transfer which indicates that it was one which would be issued on your bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, except only where it is punched--in other words, I come off of Lakewood Boulevard there where that would be the only distinction right there, is the punchmark and the name of where I have it punched there.

Mr. BALL - And this document here which is 381, you have identified that punchmark as the one made by your punch?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that punchmark was made by that punch right there.

Mr. BALL - Now, there are on this transfer two punches, there is one in p.m., and there is marked punch Lakewood. Now, the p.m., refers to the time?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - But Lakewood refers to a certain location on your run, doesn't it?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - If this transfer was issued around the Lamar area or St. Paul--Elm area, is there any place that you could punch and show that particular location?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.

Mr. BALL - You always punch at the end of your destination?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, that is the usual procedure on it.

Mr. BALL - Now, on one side of Lakewood is Beckley, where is that?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, that is on the opposite of town from--

Mr. BALL - The other side is Capital. Where is that?

Mr. McWATTERS - Capital, well, Capital is in north Dallas, I believe it is.

Mr. BALL - Are those Beckley lines listed on the transfer on your run?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; I don't--you mean on the transfer?

Mr. BALL - Yes.

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, that is, in other words, we all--they have so many of the lines listed, in other words, I believe they have two divisions, I believe all the buses that work out of the east Dallas division have-- what?

Mr. BALL - We can make this pretty simple. You have on this transfer certain names. When you are running Marsalis-Ramona-Elwood-Munger, how many possible punches would--location punches would you make?

Mr. McWATTERS - In other words, if I was--Marsalis when I left the end of Marsalis out there I would punch my transfer Marsalis, if I left the end of Ramona I would punch them Ramona. In other words, that is so they can't ride them, in other words, they can't ride the transfer.

Okay very interesting and shows how a regular transfer was punched to prevent a free round trip.

Mr. BALL - Now, Lakewood is at one end of your run?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is right.

Mr. BALL - And Marsalis-Ramona-Elwood is the other, is that right?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - So you would punch one of those names?

Mr. McWATTERS - Going that way, while at Marsalis, I would punch the Lakewood when I would leave Marsalis coming toward Lakewood, I would have Lakewood on the front of my bus but I would punch the transfer Marsalis.

So he had Marsalis on the front of his bus, and he punched the book of transfers LAKEWOOD and PM before he left Lakewood towards Downtown Dallas.

QUESTION:
Does 004451 have the puch mark for Lakewood and PM?

Cecil McWatters worked that line for 2 years and he always PRE-PUNCHED his two books of tickets when he got them.
He pre-punched one book Marsalis PM and one book Lakewood PM.
He did not Individually punch each transfer.
He did individually tear them at the specified area.
There is no punch on the receipt or 004451 in the PM or LAKEWOOD areas therefore 'it' is not from Cecil Mcwatters bus. 

Mr. BALL - When did you punch it exactly? Where were you when you punched it?

Mr. McWATTERS - I punched it before I left the end of the line, in other words.



Thank YOU Mr. Cecil McWatters.
 
The Transfer has been impugned.

Brilliantly played, Ed.

Even if 004459 is from his bus/booklet of transfers it only means:
A he was wrong about the number of transfers given. could have been zero. Maybe two on the other run?
B it is a transfer from the near bottom of a book of transfers. (bottom in a sequence of nine starting 004451)
C it from a pre-punched booklet he had after his Marsalis/Lakewood run.
D We do not have the booklet to see how many were issued from it, or its booklet number.
E Globe will print anything the DPD/FBI wants to order?
F (Somewhat speculative but allow me to show you where this goes) It may have been used by a person downtown to board another bus within 15 minutes (35 if issued at 12:40) and then transfer was turned in by another driver at end of that drivers run. Dallas Transit then had the transfer and matched it to Cecils mark. We know this happened when there was a problem, and the supervisor would check the transfer against the index, and talk with the corresponding driver.
Back of the envelope that the transfer 004459 was in is marked/signed for at 4pm and sealed. Interesting thing to do AT the police station?