REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Thank you Terry! So funny what an lil old booklet of transfers can tell us 

Okay to sum up, 004451 is an odd duck. It has no marks. Cecil did not punch it PM, which he would have if it came from Cecils bus as Cecil said he "punched it before I left the end of the line" and it should also have been punched Lakewood. Therefore the receipt and transfer 004451 can not be from Cecil McWatters bus and Marsalis run 1213.
This throws 004459 under the bus.

And the bus story deconstruction continues....

Nice work Ed.

004459 is a fake from a booklet Cecil never had or used.
Cecil would only recognize his mark, and would think it was from him it was issued.
But we see no marks on 004451 and that means it was not from a booklet used by Cecil on Nov 22 1963.
We have been so easily duped into thinking it was a real transfer when Cecil gave us the answer in '64.
It is no mystery who presented 0004451 on us its Elmer L. “Sonny” Boyd, and Richard Milton Sims via Fritz' instructions.
Sims who gave us this:
Mr. Sims. "Yes, sir; they did. I was going back and forth, from the wrapper to the hulls."
How do you go from wrapper to hulls in the confined space on the SN? Or even on the outside of the SN.
He is speaking of the chicken wrapper left on a box a few windows down. Not a gun case in the corner!

Anyways "Mr. Sims. Well, let's see, we first went in there at 2 and we stayed in there evidently—this says here that the Secret Service and the FBI took part in the interrogation of Oswald with Captain Fritz, and we took him down to the first showup at 4:05."

Closer inspection 4:05 does appear to be the time on the envelope in CE 381 for transfer 004459

PS. has anyone seen back of CE 378 the route schedule?

No prob Paul!
Easy to deconstruct this "booklet and bus ride" as the receipt or 004451 was never presented to Cecil McWatters for him to verify that it had came from his booklet/bus. wonder why?

Tho I follow what we have now... Lord forgive me, I'm confused as fuck about the difference between a "shopper's transfer" and a normal transfer - as far as what differentiates them on the ticket itself.  Just when I thought I had McWatters testimony figured out 

Nice job.

Quick question... where did you buy the transfers and how hard was it to find them?

I ask because a certain self-proclaimed witness flashes around 2 streetcar tickets as "proof" she rode the streetcar with a certain machine oiler to visit his aunt... I say she brought them off a dealer in such arcane items.

Was LHO's shirt taken before first show up with Sims and Boyd?
and then given back after? Or did he have it on for the first showing?
Finding of the transfer at 4:05 (see envelope) means a search before first showup at 4:05 not after showup at 4:20 or a little before.

Mr. Ball. Did he say that he had a T-shirt on and no one else had a T-shirt on?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; now, I think the showup that I didn't conduct the next day, I believe he refused to answer questions or said something about a T-shirt or something.

Mr. Sims. All right, the second showup was at 6:20, approximately, and there was W. E. Perry, police officer, Richard Clark, police department, and Don Ables, jail civilian clerk.

Mr. Ball. Were these men handcuffed at this time?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir; they were handcuffed.

Mr. Ball. Were they dressed the same?

Mr. Sims. I believe so; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. Were they dressed differently than Oswald?

Mr. Sims. Yes; I know they didn't have the color of clothes on or things like that.

Mr. Ball. Did they have ties on?

170 Mr. Sims. I don't recall if they did or not.

Mr. Ball. Oswald had a T-shirt on, didn't he?

Mr. Sims. He had on a brown shirt, some kind of a brown shirt, and he had a white T-shirt on underneath that.

Mr. Ball. Underneath that?

Mr. Sims. Yes; underneath that.

Mr. Ball. His clothes were rougher looking than the other men?

Mr. Sims. Well, I don't imagine that he would be dressed as nice as the officers were, as far as their clothes.

NEED TIMING OF WHEN SHIRT WAS TAKEN!

Ed, I read recently that what they took from him when processing included his shirt. Don't have time to chase the document back up right now...

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 2:35 AM

Tho I follow what we have now... Lord forgive me, I'm confused as fuck about the difference between a "shopper's transfer" and a normal transfer - as far as what differentiates them on the ticket itself.  Just when I thought I had McWatters testimony figured out 

Nice job.

Quick question... where did you buy the transfers and how hard was it to find them?

I ask because a certain self-proclaimed witness flashes around 2 streetcar tickets as "proof" she rode the streetcar with a certain machine oiler to visit his aunt... I say she brought them off a dealer in such arcane items.

Greg,

Shoppers Transfer would be punched in the area where it says Shoppers Transfer. You would need to ask for this when you got on the bus and paid your fare. That extra punch equates to making a transfer into a shoppers transfer and gives you much longer to shop and get a free return ride.
Transfer of the regular type only lets you get on another bus and ride away from the starting point.

Ebay has transfers, and yes a dealer could have these. I'll inquire as to origins.
No they did not ride the same bus unless they have transfers numbered are from 004452 - 004458 Marked with Cecil's marks.
Yes they could ride a bus and get a transfer from Nov 22 '63, it could be true if you can verify the punch mark for that vehicles driver on that run is same as on their tickets. If they have transfers like 004459 do not hold out on me!!

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 2:44 AM

Ed, I read recently that what they took from him when processing included his shirt. Don't have time to chase the document back up right now...

HUH?
How did Boyd and Sims find a transfer in a shirt he isnt wearing at 4:05 for the first showup then?

Ed Ledoux at February 1, 2015 at 2:59 AM

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 2:44 AM

Ed, I read recently that what they took from him when processing included his shirt. Don't have time to chase the document back up right now...

HUH?
How did Boyd and Sims find a transfer in a shirt he isnt wearing at 4:05 for the first showup then?

Ed -- didn't have to go looking for it. Remembered what I'd seen. It's not quite as clear cust as I thought.

From Fritz' interrogation report:

"Oswald's shirt, which he was wearing at the time of arrest, had been removed and sent to the crime lab in Washington with all the other evidence for a comparison test. "

I took that at the time I read it to indicate it was removed when he was being processed into the jail.  In fact, I can't see how it could mean anything else. You just don't leave potential evidence in the hands of prisoners in your cells.

Yet I just did a page search on "shirt" and found this.

From one of the FBI interrogation reports

dress at Time of interview Black trousers, brown "salt and pepper," long sleeved shirt, bareheaded

Thanks Greg!

Fritz reports the same story. "During the interview I talked with Oswald about his leaving the building, and he told me he left by bus and rode to a stop near home and walked to his house. At the time of Oswald's arrest he had a bus transfer in his pocket."

"On November 23 at 10:25 a. m. Oswald was brought from the jail for an interview. Present at this time was FBI agent Jim Bookhout, Forrest Sorrells, special agent and in charge of Secret Service, United States Marshal Robert Nash, and Homicide officers. During this interview I talked to Oswald about his leaving the building, and he told me he left by bus and rode to a stop near home and walked on to his house. At the time of Oswald's arrest he had a bus transfer in his pocket. He admitted this was given to him by the bus driver when he rode the bus after leaving the building. " ~Fritz

But was not normal booking was bypassed and LHO was taken up to the third floor and into Fitz' office for questioning. Correct?

I then left the rest of the search of the building with Chief Lumpkin and other officers who were there and told Dets. R. M. Sims and E. L. Boyd to accompany me to the City Hall where we could make a quick check for police record and any other information of value, and we would then go to Irving, Texas, in an effort to apprehend this man. While I was in the building, I was told that Officer J. D. Tippit had been shot in Oak Cliff. Immediately after I reached my office, I asked the officers who had brought in a prisoner from the Tippit shooting who the man was who shot the officer. They told me his name was Lee Harvey Oswald, and I replied that that was our suspect in the President's killing. I instructed the officers to bring this man into the office after talking to the officers for a few minutes in the presence of Officers R. M. Sims and E. L. Boyd of the Homicide Bureau and possibly some Secret Service men. Just as I has started questioning this man, I received a call from Gordon Shanklin, Agent in Charge of the FBI office here in Dallas, who asked me to let him talk to Jim Bookhout, one of his agents. He told Mr. Bookhout that he would like for James P. Hosty to sit in on this interview as he knew about these people and had been investigating them before. I invited Mr. Bookhout and Mr. Hosty in to help with the interview.

At 3:15 Bookout asked to sit in on the interview with Fritz which had been going on for 5 - 10 minutes.

Yet Bookout report says it was found upon arrest. Taken from his pocket by arresting officers. (by officers at time of arrest) Bookout did not go with LHO to lineup per se but did go into Witness Room to observe lineup. (ie intimidate witness by standing there looking over shoulder) So he actually missed, did not see, the finding of a 'transfer' just before LHO 's 1st showup/lineup.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0323a.htm

Warren Report states:

Chronology

The policemen who seized Oswald at the Texas Theatre arrived with him at the police department building at about 2 p.m. and brought him immediately to the third floor offices of the homicide and robbery bureau to await the arrival of Captain Fritz from the Texas School Book Depository. After about 15 or 20 minutes Oswald was ushered into the office of Captain Fritz for the first of several interrogation sessions.2 At 4:05 p.m. he was taken to the basement assembly room for his first lineup.3 While waiting outside the lineup room, Oswald was searched, and five cartridges and other items were removed from his pockets. (They find transfer before first line-up per WCR)

Why ride the 1213 when you can get a bus before or right after that bus that takes you to your rooming house on Beckley. You would be able to see the Beckley bus from where the Marsalis bus would be.
If its behind the 1213 why a transfer?
If its in front of you and your going to walk up and transfer to the Beckley bus then you would not have a transfer in your pocket later. But then again why did you walk past the Beckley bus to board the 1213?
If you are wanting the bus you would wait at the corner of Houston and Elm for the Beckely Bus.

Mr. BALL - The Beckley bus goes on across directly in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.

Mr. BALL - As your bus gets into another lane of traffic and does not stop at Houston and Elm and makes a turn south on Houston.

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Unless you want to make the individual appear as if they did not want to enter the bus there at Elm/Houston corner. Or not want to be on that bus when it stopped there near the TSBD and swarm of DPD officers. Perhaps innocently as imagining the bus would be held up longer than the 1213 which is in the next lane overand turns on Houston to the Viaduct...vs the Elm St. fiasco playing out near the bus stop for Beckley bus.

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 3:15 AM

Ed Ledoux at February 1, 2015 at 2:59 AM

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 2:44 AM

Ed, I read recently that what they took from him when processing included his shirt. Don't have time to chase the document back up right now...

HUH?
How did Boyd and Sims find a transfer in a shirt he isnt wearing at 4:05 for the first showup then?

Ed -- didn't have to go looking for it. Remembered what I'd seen. It's not quite as clear cust as I thought.

From Fritz' interrogation report:

"Oswald's shirt, which he was wearing at the time of arrest, had been removed and sent to the crime lab in Washington with all the other evidence for a comparison test. "

I took that at the time I read it to indicate it was removed when he was being processed into the jail.  In fact, I can't see how it could mean anything else. You just don't leave potential evidence in the hands of prisoners in your cells.

Yet I just did a page search on "shirt" and found this.

From one of the FBI interrogation reports

dress at Time of interview Black trousers, brown "salt and pepper," long sleeved shirt, bareheaded

Yes yes!

Mr. Ball. After this showup, what did you do?

Mr. Sims. We brought Oswald back to the office there.

Mr. Ball. To the interrogation room?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; back to Captain Fritz' office at 4:20.

Mr. Ball. At 4:20?

Mr. Sims. Yes.

Mr. Ball. Who was present in Captain Fritz' office at that time?

169 Mr. Sims. The FBI agents and Secret Service agents talked to Oswald some more.

Mr. Ball. What were their names?

Mr. Sims. I don't know their names.

Mr. Ball. You didn't record the names of the Secret Service officers?

Mr. Sims. No, sir.

Mr. Ball. Now, do you remember how long this interrogation of Oswald took place?

Mr. Sims. Well, sir, we took him back to the second showup at 6:20, so that would be a matter of 2 hours. Now, whether he was in Captain Fritz' office all this time or in the interrogation room some of the time or Captain Fritz' office all the time, I don't remember.

Mr. Ball. Now, at 6:20 there was another showup, was there?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. And where was Oswald before you took him to that showup?

Mr. Sims. He would be there in Captain Fritz' office there in the city hall.

Mr. Ball. And you took him where?

Mr. Sims. Back down to the same stage—on the stage there.

Mr. Ball. Who was in this second showup?

Mr. Sims. The same officers and the jail clerk that was with him on the first one.

Mr. Ball. Mention their names again.

Mr. Sims. All right, the second showup was at 6:20, approximately, and there was W. E. Perry, police officer, Richard Clark, police department, and Don Ables, jail civilian clerk.

Mr. Ball. Were these men handcuffed at this time?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir; they were handcuffed.

Mr. Ball. Were they dressed the same?

Mr. Sims. I believe so; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. Were they dressed differently than Oswald?

Mr. Sims. Yes; I know they didn't have the color of clothes on or things like that.

Mr. Ball. Did they have ties on?

170 Mr. Sims. I don't recall if they did or not.

Mr. Ball. Oswald had a T-shirt on, didn't he?

Mr. Sims. He had on a brown shirt, some kind of a brown shirt, and he had a white T-shirt on underneath that.

Mr. Ball. Underneath that?

Mr. Sims. Yes; underneath that.

Mr. Ball. After that showup, what did you do?

Mr. Sims. We went back to Captain Fritz' office, and let me see, at 6:37, we left the showup and went back to Captain Fritz' office.

Mr. Ball. And what did you do then?

Mr. Sims. We stayed with Oswald.

Mr. Ball. Now, in your report, you mentioned that a murder complaint was signed by Fritz that evening?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. Were you present when that happened?

Mr. Sims. Yes.

Mr. Ball. Was Oswald present also?

171 Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. He was present when the murder complaint was signed?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. Where did this take place?

Mr. Sims. In Captain Fritz' office.

Mr. Ball. And who was present?

Mr. Sims. Well, let me see—Justice of the Peace Dave Johnston, and Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander, and I don't know who else was there—I don't know who else was present.

Mr. Ball. Was the judge there—the justice judge—the J.P., Dave Johnston?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. And Bill Alexander and Fritz?

Mr. Sims. Yes.

Mr. Ball. And you? And Boyd?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. And Oswald was there?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. Was anything said to Oswald about the signing of a murder complaint?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. What was said, and who said it?

Mr. Sims. I don't remember what was said—I know Judge Johnston talked to him and Captain Fritz talked to him.

Mr. Ball. And did Alexander talk to him?

Mr. Sims. I believe he did, but I'm not positive about that.

Mr. Ball. Do you remember what Judge Johnston said?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. Ball. Do you remember what Oswald said?

Mr. Sims. No, sir.

Mr. Ball. Did anyone tell him that a murder complaint was being filed against him?

Mr. Sims. I believe so; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. For what murder?

Mr. Sims. For Officer Tippit.

Mr. Ball. Do you remember what Oswald said?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. Ball. Then what did you do with Oswald after that?

Mr. Sims. At 7:40 we entered the third showup.

Mr. Ball. Now, at 7:30 an FBI agent came in, didn't he, according to your records?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir; at 7:30—we sat in the office with Oswald and Mr. Clements of the FBI came in and interrogated Oswald.

Mr. Ball. Did Oswald answer the questions?

Mr. Sims. Yes.

Mr. Ball. Was he dressed differently than the other three at that time?

Mr. Sims. Well, he was dressed differently but I don't know—how differently he was dressed.

Mr. Ball. What did he have on?

Mr. Sims. He still had on the same clothes he was arrested in, so far as I know.

Mr. Ball. In all three showups he had on the same clothes you described before?

Mr. Sims. I believe he did.

Mr. Ball. Here is Commission No. 150, is that the shirt he had on?

Mr. Sims. Yes; that's the color shirt he had on.

Mr. Ball. And then he had on a T-shirt?

Mr. Ball. After that showup, what did you do?

Mr. Sims. Well, we took him back up to Captain Fritz' office.

Mr. Ball. About what time was this?

Mr. Sims. 7:55.

Mr. Ball. And who was there at that time?

Mr. Sims. Mr. Clements, and he continued his interrogation of Oswald for about another half hour.

Mr. Ball. Now, during this time, or sometime during this period—sometime between these three showups, you searched Oswald, didn't you?

Mr. Sims. The first one; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. And that was what time?

Mr. Sims. It was 4:05, I believe, but I will have to check my record here and see [checking his record referred to].

Mr. Ball. That was after the second showup?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; the first one.

Mr. Ball. After the first showup?

Mr. Sims. It was before the first showup.

Mr. Ball. It was before the first showup—the 4:05?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. And that was after the first interrogation?

Mr. Sims. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball. And where were you when you first searched him?

Mr. Sims. We was in the holdover, in other words, the showup room.

Mr. Ball. When you took Oswald down for the first showup and waited in the room outside, the showup room, you searched him?

Mr. Sims. Yes; Boyd and I.

Mr. Ball. What did you find?

Mr. Sims. I found a bus transfer slip in his shirt pocket.

Which pocket????????????

Mr. Ball. Where was the transfer?

Mr. Sims. The transfer was in his shirt pocket.

Mr. Ball. Would that be on the left side, I suppose?

Mr. Sims. I don't know if he's got two pockets or not.

Mr. Ball. Let's take a look at it.

Mr. Sims. (Examined Exhibit hereinafter referred to).

Mr. Ball. Commission Exhibit 150 is being exhibited for the witness' examination.

Mr. Sims. Well, he's got two pockets in here and let's see if I have it on here—what pocket it was—I didn't say—I don't remember what pocket he had that in.

Mr. Ball. What did you do with the transfer?

Mr. Sims. I went back up to the office and I believe initialed it and placed it in an envelope for identification.

Mr. Ball. Who did you turn it over to?

Mr. Sims. I don't remember.

Mr. Ball. You don't remember?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; it was either in the lieutenant's desk or Captain Fritz' desk.

Mr. Ball. Lieutenant who?

Mr. Sims. We have two in there—Lieutenant Wells and Lieutenant Bohart.

Mr. Ball. And what about the five rounds of live ammunition, what did you do with those?

Mr. Sims. It was also placed in the envelope.

Mr. Ball. And turned over to whom—Fritz?

Mr. Sims. I don't know who that was turned over to.

After a third lineup at about 7:40 p.m., Oswald was returned to Fritz' office.8 About an hour later, after further questioning, Oswald's fingerprints and palmprints were taken and a paraffin test (see app. XI) administered in Fritz' office, after which the questioning resumed.9 At 11:26 p.m. Fritz signed the complaint charging Oswald with the murder of President Kennedy. 10 Shortly after midnight, detectives took Oswald to the basement assembly room for an appearance of several minutes before members of the press

Here is LHO in his brown shirt at the Midnight press conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctOxFxGfQKE     
(also he says "asked" not 'axed me that question', get better speakers if you can not hear 'asked' over the metal chair being moved/slammed around. I have new near field powered studio monitors, believe me he says asked.)

So:

Mr. Sims. I didn't see actually the busdriver, I don't believe, identify his transfer.   (Say what! He did not see the Bus Driver ID the transfer!!)

Mr. Ball. Do you know the officer that showed the transfer to the busdriver?

Mr. Sims. No, sir; I don't.

They Parafin test his face and hands, finger print him several times all while he is wearing his shirt before the midnight press conf.

At about 12 :20 a.m. Oswald was delivered to the jailer who placed him in a maximum security cell on the fifth floor.

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 3:15 AM

Ed Ledoux at February 1, 2015 at 2:59 AM

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 2:44 AM

Ed, I read recently that what they took from him when processing included his shirt. Don't have time to chase the document back up right now...

HUH?
How did Boyd and Sims find a transfer in a shirt he isnt wearing at 4:05 for the first showup then?

Ed -- didn't have to go looking for it. Remembered what I'd seen. It's not quite as clear cust as I thought.

From Fritz' interrogation report:

"Oswald's shirt, which he was wearing at the time of arrest, had been removed and sent to the crime lab in Washington with all the other evidence for a comparison test. "

I took that at the time I read it to indicate it was removed when he was being processed into the jail.  In fact, I can't see how it could mean anything else. You just don't leave potential evidence in the hands of prisoners in your cells.

Yet I just did a page search on "shirt" and found this.

From one of the FBI interrogation reports

dress at Time of interview Black trousers, brown "salt and pepper," long sleeved shirt, bareheaded

Going on to the next page we see this

The Brownish Shirt C11:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/wh24_ce_2011.pdf

Det. Bentely via CE 2011 says he initials the shirt on Friday and sends it off with SA Drain to Washinton DC...but Lee is wearing it early into the morning of the 23rd.

Drain collects evidence at 11:45 at DPD from Day before flying to DC.

From Pat Speers site:
Notice also that Day says only that he marked the bag on the 22nd, not that he marked it on the scene. Consider also that the agent tracing the chain of evidence, Vincent Drain, was the one who first took the bag to Washington, and the one who later claimed returning the paper sample to Dallas was unnecessary. Day's claim that he found the bag, and Drain's failure to track down Montgomery and Johnson, and even Studebaker--who'd previously testified that they'd found the bag--is undoubtedly suspicious to those even slightly prone to suspicion.

But, wait, it gets even more suspicious. Drain had discussed the bag with Day at an earlier time as well. An 11-30-63 report by Drain on an 11-29-63 interview of Day reveals:(

"Lt. Carl Day, Dallas Police Department, stated he found the brown paper bag shaped like a gun case near the scene of the shooting on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building. He stated the manager, Mr. Truly, saw this bag at the time it was taken into possession by Lt. Day. Truly, according to Day, had not seen this bag before. No one else viewed it. Truly furnished similar brown paper from the roll that was used in packing books by the Texas School Book Depository. This paper was examined by the FBI Laboratory and found to have the same observable characteristics as the brown paper bag shaped like a gun case which was found near the scene of the shooting of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building. The Dallas Police have not exhibited this to anyone else. It was immediately locked up by Day, kept in his possession until it was turned over to FBI agent Drain for transmittal to the Laboratory. It was examined by the Laboratory, returned to the Dallas Police Department November 24, 1963, locked up in the Crime Laboratory. This bag was returned to Agent Drain on November 26, 1963, and taken back to the FBI Laboratory.  why? Not send it back? if they did what was the point? Did the FBI send it back? Or is that a story? Was the transfer among items sent back on the 24th? I guess it was evidence so yes. Paper was only a sample.

Lt. Day stated no one has identified this bag to the Dallas Police Department." (CD5, p129).

Earlier in the evening, about 8:00 o'clock, the division chief had talked to me on the telephone and informed me that the FBI in Washington demanded that we bring them for examination the rifle, the revolver that was used to kill Tippit, as well as the different paraphernalia such as identification cards and other small items that Oswald had on him. I discussed it with the police chief and told him that we'd keep the chain of evidence intact and that I would pick them up there myself and wait for them until they were examined in Washington then bring them back. So it was turned over to us.

By the time we got it all boxed up, it was near midnight. Meanwhile Washington was calling down about every fifteen minutes wanting to know where the material was. All of a sudden I learned that neither American nor Braniff had any flights to Washington out of Dallas after midnight. We were told that the FBI in Washington wanted the material by morning if we had to walk it up there. That's being facetious, but…

Fortunately the commanding general over at Carswell in Forth Worth happened to be a good friend of mine and was head of SAC (Strategic Air Command) at that time. So I called him and was told that the President had asked him to give us all the help that we needed. Another agent took me to Fort Worth where they had a C-135 tanker plane and crew ready.

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Drain.html


Seems like the shirt did not make the flight! But the transfer did?

https://books.google.com/books?id=pbdFAQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA1126&lpg=RA1-PA1126&dq=dallas+transit+company+shoppers+transfers&source=bl&ots=MkJfiRlkz9&sig=D-LOx2SnbOVrfutpB-ThJu3NHyM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2hLOVIOkM4nVoATy74CoDA&ved=0CF4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=dallas%20transit%20company%20shoppers%20transfers&f=false

Says shoppers transfer has RMS on it.



Yes it has RMS on reverse.
It also has Three (3) Q numbers!
Did not Sims say they put the transfer in it alone? The shells in another envelope? Yes? No?

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/E%20Disk/Evidence%20Preservation%20of/Item%2006.pdf

 (Bus transfer, bracelet inscribed "Lee," key, ring, narrow black belt with buckle and property receipt (FBI No. D35)


Page 202

http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/oswald_lee_harvey_post-russian_period_2_political_nov_1963-jan1964/oswald_lee_harvey_post-russian_period_2_political_nov_1963-jan1964.pdf

"D35 Transfer, PD property receipt,·key, ring, ID bracelet inscribed LEE."



Page 225
http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/oswald_marina_feb_1964-august_1964/oswald_marina_feb_1964-august_1964.pdf

D35 is Lee's Bracelet  
(Note c316 is Gold paper-covered box)
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Exhibits%20List%20Federal%20Register/Item%2003.pdf)

Page 28

jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI Records Files/105-82555/105-82555 Section 020/105-20c.pdf.

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Q262 Dallas Transit Company

Shoppers Transfer Number 004459

dated 11-22-63, perforated "P. M." and also perforated

"Lake Wood," bearing the initials on the back "RMS"

Q263 Dallas PD Prisoner Property Receipt dated 11-22-63,

-Number 2833, )with one narrow black belt with buckle

 Q264 'Dallas PD property envelope item number 113780;-containing the following:

Brass key marked "P. 0. Dept. Do Not Dup."

Number 1126

Silver color Marine Corps emblem ring

Chrome ID bracelet with expansion band

with inscription "Lee".

The submitted evidence is being retained in the Laboratory for any

further specific examinations which may be requested.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20020/105-20c.pdf
Page 26

"It is noted that the above items are submitted in the original envelopes as obtained from the Dallas PD."


Tada! Okay envelope and Q numbers all straightened out.

Q262  envelope signed and sealed at 4:05 on 11-22 by Boyd and Sims containing the transfer 004459

Nice work, Ed.  Fascinating stuff.  Keep digging.

I remember when Greg and I, along with Duke Lane, first went through all this with a fine tooth comb and the struggle we had trying to fill in some of the gaps. When I originally found ticket 004451 in the Mary Ferrell archives I really didn't know what the hell it was until I later found the reports that accompanied it stating that the ticket was STOLEN by the Station Supervisor at Dallas Transit, one James P. Routt, as a souvenir.  As far as I'm aware this ticket had never been discussed before by anybody.  I balked at the explanation, especially seeing as how the person who took it was never formally interviewed (Routt's story simply replayed through F. F. Yates who was the Division Superintendent at Dallas Transit) and there is no documented investigation as to how it reappeared into the hands of F. F. Yates to be handed over to the FBI.  I had many a long night sat at home going over and over this in my head.  I could not believe that the ticket book that we are told originally held 004459 was not taken as evidence from McWatters bus.  The only reason to not take it was to hide the numerical sequence or alternatively it was taken and deep-sixed.

Instead we are asked to believe that many months after the assassination the FBI suddenly developed an interest in finding out further information about the transfer and F. F. Yates suddenly managed to pull out of his arse the 004451 transfer that was inscribed on the back with:

"Receipt for the book of transfers from which transfer was issued to Oswald the accused assig of Pres. John F. Kennedy" accompanied by Routt's signature.

By the time the FBI started digging it was too late to find out any further information.

The whole thing stinks.  One thing I've never been able to wrap my head around is the stamp mark in the Lakewood section of the transfer. Lakewood was the last stop on McWatters bus going in the opposite direction.  Lakewood being the area where Mockingbird Lane is.  McWatters' bus going in the other direction toward Oak Cliff was the Marsalis bus.  So why is Lakewood stamped with McWatters punch?  McWatters' bus stopped being the Lakewood bus the minute he turned the bus around in Lakewood and headed back toward Elm Street at which point it became the Marsalis bus - - therefore I would expect the ticket to be punched in the Marsalis section.

You certainly do need a fucking masters degree to work out these bus routes and transfer tickets.

P.S. The Beckley bus stopped at the identical same set of bus stops on Elm Street as McWatters bus and was due on Elm Street at the exact same time which was 12:36pm.  As a regular customer of public transport Oswald would have known this.

Ed Ledoux at February 1, 2015 at 2:59 AM

Greg at February 1, 2015 at 2:44 AM

Ed, I read recently that what they took from him when processing included his shirt. Don't have time to chase the document back up right now...

HUH?
How did Boyd and Sims find a transfer in a shirt he isnt wearing at 4:05 for the first showup then?

Ed,

This is an area of the case that just beggars belief.  Add into the equation that Gerald Hill and Paul Bentley are on record as both saying that when arrested in the Texas Theater Oswald was thoroughy searched.  Gerald Hill stated that Oswald was frisked to the point that if Oswald would have had a razor blade on him they would have found it.  Bentley is on record stating that in the theater "Oswald was completely searched and nothing was left in his pockets.

So if this is true Oswald had nothing left in his pockets before he left the Theater apart from the bus ticket, his wallet, and a load of bullets.  Pretty good search they did.

When I raised this at the Education Forum I was, within minutes, messaged by Gary Smack (middle name Smokes) who was quick to defend the search and while he agreed that the search in the TT took place he also said they left the bullets on Oswald because they had the revolver so therefore the ammo wasn't a danger to him or anyone else so they left them.  Mr. Smack quickly got told to fuck off. 

If Mr. Smack wants to pretend he believes his own bullshit then that's fine by me.  Not only did he have to smother onto proceedings a further layer of thick shite but then he was then forced into having to prepare another.  If the arresting Officers did find the bullets in Oswald's pocket at the TT why did they not mention this to anyone when he was handed over for processing and why did it take another two hours for them to be found?

Lee,

Good questions, all. One can fall back on the old (but very useful) saw about the ineptness of the DPD, or one can speculate that Oswald's pockets assume the same magical cornocupia status held by the Paine's garage.

I wonder what else they found in Oswald's pockets when he was rolled into Parkland that final time?

Reading McWatters testimony i feel like he is saying WTF to Mr Ball when he is shown 004459 that is punched Lakeview and not Marsalis, also I do not think mr Ball or any of the other knew how this system was working, I know that it got my brain boiling over today and yesterday.

Also the 004451 how can they find the first ticket awhen Oswald had ticket no. 9 ?

some other passenger ought to have this ticket, and also when they dragged McWatters in to DPD only 2 hours ? later and did not secure the ticketalbums ?