REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

John Mooney at February 3, 2015 at 7:11 AM

The horse's mouth and his ticket cutter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCyC1J9G0rE

 

"The only two transfers I put out coming through town"...........!!!!!!!!!

From the video.

This is actually McWatters.

He said he only issued one transfer before Oswald.

So what really happened to 004452 to 004458?

I think they found the booklet and took the top one after McWatters had issued other tickets later in the journey.

"I think they found the booklet and took the top one after McWatters had issued other tickets later in the journey."
YES!!!
Or he gave out some to inbound riders before heading through downtown, and did give out only two downtown.
Which would also leave 004459 on top.
But without speculating, he gave out just two leaving 004454 on top.

I also think transfers were handed out on exit of the bus (as McWatters says in the video).

Setting the time for the ticket on entry in advance doesn't seem right if the bus is delayed for any reason.

The problem here, fellas, is that we don't know what booklet 004459 came out of.  McWatter and F. F. Yates are both on record saying that each driver would take a certain number of books of transfers with him each day and the front transfer bearing the number 01 or 51 would be taken with the drivers badge number on the back.  Because the FBI, as far as we are led to believe, left it until March, 1964 to visit the Dallas Transit Company to request the transfer booklet information for Cecil McWatters the information, again we are led to believe, had been destroyed.

So, for all we know, 004459 could have come from the transfer book off the bus McWatters was driving the evening of November 22nd when he was dragged off it and hauled into City Hall for 8+ hours.  I'm sure there is a record of which bus he was driving that night in some of the police reports or interviews.  Don't have the time right now to hunt them down.

There is the faintest possibility that each driver took two books each day in synchronised order although we'd have a helluva job proving it and if they did take booklets in running order Cecil may have had booklets 004401 and 004451 with him and if so the 004451 booklet was from his second bus.

Food for thought at least...

...but also a good reason and the only reason for the DPD to not hold onto the full booklets in McWatters' possession and go directly to Dallas Transit and demand the booklet identification transfers from the Supervisor there.  

The drivers took as many booklets as they thought they needed, so it could have been any number and McWatters could have had 004451 and 004501.

We don't know.

I do know there is an apparent unexplained seven ticket gap between 004451 and 004459.

McWatters Testimony:

"Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I left there that day on time because coming into town that day, I guess everybody done went to, down to, see the parade, I didn't have over four or five passengers coming into downtown."

It was a quiet day for him.

"Mr. BALL - After your dispatcher checked you in what time did you leave that corner of St. Paul and Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, the best I can remember I don't recall even picking up a passenger there. I think I discharged one lady passenger there on that, to the best I can recall, because I remember that I had, when I crossed Field Street, I think I had five passengers on my bus. "

How many transfers were supposedly issued?

John Mooney at February 3, 2015 at 12:12 PM

The drivers took as many booklets as they thought they needed, so it could have been any number and McWatters could have had 004451 and 004501.

We don't know.

I do know there is an apparent unexplained seven ticket gap between 004451 and 004459.

You first need to find out what time McWatters shift started and whether the Lakewood to Marsalis run where the phantom Oswald appeared was his first of the day.  From memory it wasn't, but checking may give an explanation of the seven ticket gap.  I haven't time to double check but I'm sure he'd already completed a run from Marsalis to downtown up to Lakewood (Munger Avenue) before turning around in the other direction.

I agree with you that "we don't know" about the booklets but there are lots of things we didn't know but now do after researching the heck out of them.  

What I do know is that there was only one reason for the following two things to not occur and that was to hide the sequence of transfer:

1.  Full set or sets of transfer booklets not taken from Cecil McWatters during the time he was at City Hall

2.  Receipts not taken from Dallas Transit Company that would have possibly then guaranteed which book the transfer came from

It is these two things that did not happen (or did and was hidden) that makes me strongly suspect 004459 DID NOT come from McWatters original book of transfers during his daytime shift but instead came from a later book that he had with him at 6pm when he was dragged off the bus by Detectives.

Other than Mary Bledsoe, not one person from that bus was looked for and given we were handed very good information from McWatters about the lady getting the train I find it very telling that she wasn't looked for and asked through the media to come forward.  At the end of the day, if that woman did exist it was certainly not in the best interest of the "investigation" to find that transfer she allegedly had.

Fascinating stuff fellas, thanks ever so much!

Reading McWatters testimony it is clear to me that the transfers are only issued on request when passengers exit the bus at the transfer point. In the case of this bus route that is Lamar Street.

McWatters had the cutter already lined up for 1 o'clock but had not torn any off on that journey before Lamar street. He says so himself. If buses are delayed for any reason then he would readjust his cutter before the transfer point.

"Mr. McWATTERS - I only gave two transfers going through town on that trip and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady and the gentleman that got off the bus, I issued two transfers. But that was the only two transfers that were issued. "

Only two transfers were issued.

So what is the real story for 004452 to 004459?

Lee, the Lakewood to Oak Cliff route was his first of the day, it's in his testimony.

More testimony (about the lineup, but mentions transfers):

"Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; they were different ages, different sizes and different heights. And they asked me if I could identify any man in particular there, and I told them that I couldn't identify any man in particular, but there was one man there that was about the size of the man. Now, I was referring back, after they done showed me this transfer at that time and I knew which trip, that I went through town on at that time, in other words, on the Lakewood trip and just like I recalled, I only put out two transfers and I told them that there was one man in the lineup was about the size and the height and complexion of a man that got on my bus, but as far as positively identifying the man I could not do it. "

John Mooney at February 3, 2015 at 2:55 PM

Reading McWatters testimony it is clear to me that the transfers are only issued on request when passengers exit the bus at the transfer point. In the case of this bus route that is Lamar Street.

 

McWatters had the cutter already lined up for 1 o'clock but had not torn any off on that journey before Lamar street. He says so himself. If buses are delayed for any reason then he would readjust his cutter before the transfer point.

 

"Mr. McWATTERS - I only gave two transfers going through town on that trip and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady and the gentleman that got off the bus, I issued two transfers. But that was the only two transfers that were issued. "

Only two transfers were issued.

 

So what is the real story for 004452 to 004459?

 

Lee, the Lakewood to Oak Cliff route was his first of the day, it's in his testimony.

Just checked, John.  He says his shift started at 11:52am.  If the Lakewood to Marsalis trip was his first of the day then he must have entered the same wormhole that LHO kept falling into.

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I was assigned that day on the particular run from 11:52 until 2:27.

He arrived at St. Paul & Elm at 12:36pm during his infamous trip and was bang on time.  If Cecil wants us to believe it took him 44 minutes to travel from Munger Avenue to St. Paul & Elm then I'm just gonna have to pop out to one of my local dealers and get a bag of PCP.

He didn't necessarily start driving at 11.52

There was some admin to attend to first.

Receipts and stuff.

John Mooney at February 3, 2015 at 3:18 PM

He didn't necessarily start driving at 11.52

 

There was some admin to attend to first.

 

Receipts and stuff.

Munger Avenue in the Lakewood area is less than five minutes away from St. Paul & Elm.  In fact it is much less than five minutes.  It is one block away from Gaston that was his main thoroughfare into downtown.  

The time of 11:52 I'm readin' as the start time of his route.  It's too specific to be anything but.

Best to get the timetables from Mary Ferrell

You were right, John, and my medium to long term memory is faulty.  Here is Cecil's timesheet. He would leave Lakewood at 12:11pm which was much further east than Munger.  This giot him to St. Paul & Elm at 12:36.  

The media interview transcrips I posted upstream show that Curry as at Saturday PM, was under the impression that Oswald had made his escape in a station wagon driven by a dark complected male.

Sometime after that on the same night, the information is corrected by Fritz... to the complete befuddlement of the media throng who keep asking about the station wagon but get no further resonse.

Looking at the timeline offered up by Brussells in her "last words" piece... we see...

the Roger Craig station wagon info coming in at the interrogation commencing at 4:45 on the Friday. Up to that point, nothing had been discussed about buses or any other form of getaway transport.

At 6:30, Oswald is hauled off for the McWatters line-up just prior to which he is allegedly searched and a transfer found. 

At 7:10 he is "arraigned" on the murder of Tippit -- presumambly because with the aid of McWatters bus, they can now get him to the "altar" on time.

The Interrogation commencing at 7:55 is where Oswald now "admits" his previous story wasn't quite true (what previous story? That he had caught a bus only? The station wagon?) and that he actually "took a bus, but due to a traffic jam, I left the bus and got a taxicab, by which means I actually arrived at my residence."

Curry was obviously aware of the Craig information & the cops were obviously taking it seriously - at least until the Bledsoe phone call. That Curry was not aware of the change in story by Saturday PM is a bit surprising but must be the case.  

Meanwhile I'm back to the start. Oswald never had no dam transfer on him - the whole bus thing was caused by Bledsoe and Laughing Boy. Oswald was not on there. Moreover, it is made to appear that Oswald changed from saying he caught a bus all the way, to then admitting he caught a bus, but jumped off in traffic and caught a cab. Bullshit. The alleged change in story was from the station wagon to the bus... "that car belonged to Ruth Paine..." That is an admission that he got a lift in Ruth Paine's car that morning and/or got picked up by it after the assassination. I wonder how well-tanned Willie was? He certainly had time to pick Oswald up before driving to Austin and arriving at 7pm.

The rest of this discussion is absolutely brilliant research and deconstruction... but it's giving me a damn migraine trying wrap my poor antipodean brain around all the detail! I'm still strugling with why 51 was signed on the back and handed in as a receipt prior to the bus leaving the depot... or even if I have that detail correct in my head...

I do know a couple of bus drivers and I'm gonna chew there ears off about some of this....

Sometime after that on the same night, the information is corrected by Fritz... to the complete befuddlement of the media throng who keep asking about the station wagon but get no further resonse.

Greg I remember seeing this clip where Fritz just remains still and quiet wishing the reporters would STFU. I have been looking for it since but cannot find it.

Lee Farley at February 3, 2015 at 4:10 PM

You were right, John, and my medium to long term memory is faulty.  Here is Cecil's timesheet. He would leave Lakewood at 12:11pm which was much further east than Munger.  This giot him to St. Paul & Elm at 12:36.  

No problem Lee.

I don't think Oswald had a transfer on him when arrested.

But there's a million holes in the official story.

John Mooney at February 3, 2015 at 4:41 PM

Lee Farley at February 3, 2015 at 4:10 PM

You were right, John, and my medium to long term memory is faulty.  Here is Cecil's timesheet. He would leave Lakewood at 12:11pm which was much further east than Munger.  This giot him to St. Paul & Elm at 12:36.  

No problem Lee.

 

I don't think Oswald had a transfer on him when arrested.

 

But there's a million holes in the official story.

Looking back over the time sheet and I'm sat scratching my head completely confused.  Anyone know what this thing is?  What is it for?  Who fills it in?  Why?  

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 378, for identification.)

Mr. McWATTERS - This is a schedule, I will just say a bus schedule.

Mr. BALL - That is for the Marsalis-Ramona-Elwood-Munger run?

Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.

Mr. BALL - Run 1213. Is this the run schedule that was in effect on November 22, 1963?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir; that is correct.

Before describing this as "just...a bus schedule" Cecil said "...that number there is my run number right here on my card."

I don't think it's an employee timesheet, I think it's a timetable that the drivers refer to so they get their timing right,

... and.. you read down the "Lv" column and up the "Arr" column for the return journey.

(then down the "Lv" column until 2.20pm (terminates?)