REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Lee Farley at February 7, 2015 at 7:30 AM

Bravo!
Well this blows Myers idea out of the water that LHO was in a hurry to catch a bus on Jerrerson from his rooming house at 1:15.
For Myers theories to work he needs LHO in the cab and at Beckley by 1:00.
We can see there is no cab ride taken.
We can see the bus LHO was supposed to be on, brought him five blocks from that rooming house...so he would need to walk the ten blocks there and back, plus the extra distance to Ewing/ Jefferson of 5-6 blocks.
...which is 13+ minute walk plus 4 minutes to change clothes. Or 17 + minutes

LHO if he had a transfer, had till 1:40 to be at either Ewing or Ninth and Jefferson to catch the Lancaster Bus 55.
This is why we need all those maps, we don't have the Second and Lago route schedule yet.

21) Would this mean though that his the transfer would be punched by the Second and Lago driver in the RETRANSFER section?
If not we are clear to proceed.

Why catch a Second and Lago bus? Walking seems easier.
It is just two blocks walk from Jefferson/Marsalis to Ewing/Jefferson.The transfer would not be marked retransfer.
Transfer could be as we see it today, even if it was used to board Lancaster 55 bus.

Okay Mr. Farley please come up with the Lancaster 55 route. :-) I looked and wasn't finding it.

Ed,

These are the best quality document I can find online at the moment.  The Dallas Transit City map is as much use as a chocolate teapot so if we want a copy that we can read we're gonna have to get in touch with NARA.  I hope you can make out th Lancaster map.  It is from Roger Warner's Secret Service report of June 1964 CD1128:

Thanks Lee! Routes should be published in a section of Dallas Morning News, etc. especially route changes.
This Lancaster Run 55 is a good one. Lancaster has Jefferson, Ewing, Veterans Hospital, Ledbetter and Bonnieview among its stops. Last two during rush hour only, still they are a few blocks away from end of line on Kingsley. It is a 12:30 Field and Main bus.
It would be held up for parade, motorcade traffic.Like this Dallas Transit Bus on Main at Evray going East.

Or this one on Evray at Main

Or these stopped on the street.

This shows old/new at Harwood and Elm. Note Titches on Left, Majestic Theater on Right

Karen West Waldrop · Mustang, Oklahoma; My parents owned the two apt buildings at the corner of 8th & Marsalis from 1960-1966. I remember Owens Store was across the street where we kids would sell our Coke bottles. I had two younger sisters. All three of us had long hair, and we skated all over the neighborhood! · April 8, 2014 at 7:22pm

30 Marsalis Bus

http://gallery.bustalk.info/albums/userpics/10001/mid_DallasRy_T1066onRt24ScanColl.jpg


I believe the first bus is bus 1213 not the one with the arrow.
The first bus is ready for its turn on Houston the arrowed bus is getting ready to pull into the stop at Elm and Houston. The first bus is 1213 the arrowed bus is Beckley 22. Cecil was right. He was likely first bus through, but turned on Houston.

A blow up of original of bus facing camera would be key to answering this.
http://www.leeharveyoswald.nl/bus1.jpg

Inside a Dallas bus 1956

Segregated Bus in Texas Despite a court ruling on desegregating buses, white and blacks continue to be divided by their own choice. April 25, 1956 Dallas, Texas, USA

Lee,
If that Chocolate teapt idea works out let me know, mmm tea and desert!

Three (3) 1949 Dallas Rail and Terminal (Transit) transfer
Punched AM and 53 Fruitdale
Shows 55 was Lake H'lands

I see no Bus near Elm and Houston intersection.
I see no traffic behind the crowd.
Did DPD divert traffic at Elm and Record.

Towner footage of Elm and Houston.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmeaYWr3qZk

Traffic held at or before Elm and Houston
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCQewH2IpkY

No traffic in Z film, but what looks like a car possibly a DPD car behind three parade goers standing across Elm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4L1CVX0FnA

My old neighbor had this footage for years in his closet! A bus is seen on Main at Market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Hl5bZQDbI

I've wondered what advertisments old 433 had on her that day?

The bus (Dallas Transit # 433 pictured) is a White Motor Company Model for Dallas Ry & Terminal #'s 401-454 were 1144-D-2 (DW meaning Diesel Equipped/102 inches wide) dating to 1952 and was equipped with a Cummins Diesel engine tied to a White built 'Hydro-Torque' automatic transmission.

The 1100 series White came through with a standard fresh air intake over the destination sign much like GM's ThermoMatic but, in the case of Dallas, you'll note that on #433, and however many others of its ilk, the intake was blocked when the company installed their own 'after market' air conditioners - White never produced an air conditioner.

http://forum.bustalk.info/viewtopic.php?t=3538&sid=cf938e9abc6dcbf6b33e2779be871b17

DID YOU RIDE THIS BUS NOVEMBER 22 1963?


433 had a distinctive aftermarket AC bent sheet metal ducting cowl - kinda homemade look where it meets the ac unit.

Ed Ledoux at February 9, 2015 at 2:57 AM

http://gallery.bustalk.info/albums/userpics/10001/mid_DallasRy_T1066onRt24ScanColl.jpg


I believe the first bus is bus 1213 not the one with the arrow.
The first bus is ready for its turn on Houston the arrowed bus is getting ready to pull into the stop at Elm and Houston. The first bus is 1213 the arrowed bus is Beckley 22. Cecil was right. He was likely first bus through, but turned on Houston.

A blow up of original of bus facing camera would be key to answering this.
http://www.leeharveyoswald.nl/bus1.jpg

Inside a Dallas bus 1956

Segregated Bus in Texas Despite a court ruling on desegregating buses, white and blacks continue to be divided by their own choice. April 25, 1956 Dallas, Texas, USA

 

Lee,
If that Chocolate teapt idea works out let me know, mmm tea and desert!

I'd like to know why S.L. Reed felt it necessary to take this photo of two buses on Elm St. before hot footing it over to Jefferson and photograph the arrest from outside the Theater.

The photograph above with the arrow first appeared in Groden's book The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald in 1995 and I'm a bit perplexed as to how Groden came to the conclusion that the bus in the photograph is what he claims it is.  What information did he have that allowed to make the claim that this is Cecil McWatters bus?

I'm positive if the negative is available and a high definition scan is made of the below S. L. Reed photo we could easily be able to see what bus is waiting in traffic on Elm.  This bus is just approaching the LAMAR St. junction.

P.S. I'm just reading through Groden's narrative accompanying these photos.  Jeezus, the man is so full of shit it's unbelievable.  According to Groden, Cecil McWatters identified Lee Oswald in a lineup the night of 11/22.  Not by any stretch of the imagination did McWatters identify Lee Oswald.

Groden's surprise "witness" exposed him as absolutely full of shit. He, Lifton, White and a slew of others sucked the the living daylights out of this case and are part of the reason it's dragged on this long. 

Just take this thread alone... what would the case look like now if you and Ed had been on the HSCA?

Greg at February 9, 2015 at 3:10 PM

Groden's surprise "witness" exposed him as absolutely full of shit. He, Lifton, White and a slew of others sucked the the living daylights out of this case and are part of the reason it's dragged on this long. 

Just take this thread alone... what would the case look like now if you and Ed had been on the HSCA?

Yep!  Groden is not all he wants everyone to think he is.

Me on the HSCA?  Doubt I'd have lasted long, Greg.  I'd have been taken out by a black dog man firing an ice dart up my arse.

Lee Farley at February 9, 2015 at 5:02 PM

Greg at February 9, 2015 at 3:10 PM

Groden's surprise "witness" exposed him as absolutely full of shit. He, Lifton, White and a slew of others sucked the the living daylights out of this case and are part of the reason it's dragged on this long. 

Just take this thread alone... what would the case look like now if you and Ed had been on the HSCA?

Yep!  Groden is not all he wants everyone to think he is.

Me on the HSCA?  Doubt I'd have lasted long, Greg.  I'd have been taken out by a black dog man firing an ice dart up my arse.

Yes, but just think. You could have had posthumous fame via being added to Charnin's msyterious deaths list! You know elvis was recently added, don't you? After it was discovered he was having it off with Judy... our very own Ms Vegas found the photographic evidence https://www.facebook.com/groups/827830333924181/915323625174851/?comment_id=917679008272646&ref=notif¬if_t=like

Greg at February 9, 2015 at 5:28 PM

Lee Farley at February 9, 2015 at 5:02 PM

Greg at February 9, 2015 at 3:10 PM

Groden's surprise "witness" exposed him as absolutely full of shit. He, Lifton, White and a slew of others sucked the the living daylights out of this case and are part of the reason it's dragged on this long. 

Just take this thread alone... what would the case look like now if you and Ed had been on the HSCA?

Yep!  Groden is not all he wants everyone to think he is.

Me on the HSCA?  Doubt I'd have lasted long, Greg.  I'd have been taken out by a black dog man firing an ice dart up my arse.

Yes, but just think. You could have had posthumous fame via being added to Charnin's msyterious deaths list! You know elvis was recently added, don't you? After it was discovered he was having it off with Judy... our very own Ms Vegas found the photographic evidence https://www.facebook.com/groups/827830333924181/915323625174851/?comment_id=917679008272646&ref=notif¬if_t=like

Its good to see A J Weberman still around. He is good value. Let him trowel through JVB's trash and see what he comes up with.

Speaking of trolling...I mean Trolleying here is '64 Trolley Map.



Here is the 34 Vickery bus circa 1952.
Note the poster on the pole!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.trolleybuses.net/dal/htm/usa_h_dal_misc_ad_ob_maintainstrolleycoaches_195209_bt.htm


So bus riders like Oswald would know what Ruby had going on that week.

Ed, I think you'll find that's a poster advertizing the musical, Carousel! I don't think the Carousel Club even existed in '52 by that name.

Although you're on such a roll, I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong about this...:D 

Lee Farley at February 9, 2015 at 7:45 AM

Ed Ledoux at February 9, 2015 at 2:57 AM

http://gallery.bustalk.info/albums/userpics/10001/mid_DallasRy_T1066onRt24ScanColl.jpg


I believe the first bus is bus 1213 not the one with the arrow.
The first bus is ready for its turn on Houston the arrowed bus is getting ready to pull into the stop at Elm and Houston. The first bus is 1213 the arrowed bus is Beckley 22. Cecil was right. He was likely first bus through, but turned on Houston.

A blow up of original of bus facing camera would be key to answering this.
http://www.leeharveyoswald.nl/bus1.jpg

Inside a Dallas bus 1956

Segregated Bus in Texas Despite a court ruling on desegregating buses, white and blacks continue to be divided by their own choice. April 25, 1956 Dallas, Texas, USA

 

Lee,
If that Chocolate teapt idea works out let me know, mmm tea and desert!

I'd like to know why S.L. Reed felt it necessary to take this photo of two buses on Elm St. before hot footing it over to Jefferson and photograph the arrest from outside the Theater.

The photograph above with the arrow first appeared in Groden's book The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald in 1995 and I'm a bit perplexed as to how Groden came to the conclusion that the bus in the photograph is what he claims it is.  What information did he have that allowed to make the claim that this is Cecil McWatters bus?

I'm positive if the negative is available and a high definition scan is made of the below S. L. Reed photo we could easily be able to see what bus is waiting in traffic on Elm.  This bus is just approaching the LAMAR St. junction.

P.S. I'm just reading through Groden's narrative accompanying these photos.  Jeezus, the man is so full of shit it's unbelievable.  According to Groden, Cecil McWatters identified Lee Oswald in a lineup the night of 11/22.  Not by any stretch of the imagination did McWatters identify Lee Oswald.

It is simple Lee. Someone was seen by Stuart, he followed the person away from TSBD, that person tried to ditch Stuart and hopped a bus, maybe one driven by Cecil Joffrey MaWatters so he takes photos like a good spy.
Didn't Stuart claim a photo was missing an the FBI didn't give it back. Maybe a bus close up. 

Born: Cecil Joffrey McWatters  March 29, 1918 in Texas, USA

Died: February 5, 1995 (age 76) in Dallas, Texas, USA

SSN:429-48-0651  State of SSN Issue: Arkansas

Cecil was 45 and been working for DTC for 18 years in '63
Didn't they retire after twenty years back then?

Cecil is "quoted" in Red Roses From Texas, fwiw, As saying it was 12:40 as he was kept looking at his watch all the time, being late on schedule. Oswald boarded sat in the middle of the car and their were two other passengers.
(One had to be train/suitcase lady. The other would be Milton. Wait I thought Oswald was Milton...)
When a car got stopped in front and driver tapped on the window and told Cecil the president has been shot is when the lady gets off and Oswald does too and says Gimme A Transfer.
Rather rude, I thought it was "Transfer please"

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Red%20Roses%20From%20Texas/Item%2001.pdf

Where all the interviews are from!! CBS News, Eddie Barker and the gang did a bang up job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VylXqBuhTQ0
about 1:00 into it.....
Whaley is at the Greyhound bus station on Lamar and Jackson....hey there is a bus major bus stop there!!
Then at 1:16 mark we hear Dan Rather say "hunters were closing in (on LHO), police cars were everywhere" , just then a Dallas Transit Bus drives by on Jefferson! Classic.:lol: Using 23 cents or his transfer he could have gotten away! Like he just did from the depository! Haha
This stuff is golden!

Oh,
I have a candidate for a bus rider:

Mr. WORRELL - Well, I got up about, well, I got up at my usual time, about 6:30. I was going to go to school that day but I decided to go see the President and my mother left about 7:30, and my sister left about a quarter of 8. I left about 8, and hitchhiked down to Love Field and got there. It took me quite a while to get there, about 9, and just messed around there until the President come in, whatever time that was. And then I didn't get to see him good at all. So I caught a bus and went over, went downtown and I just, I don't know, happened to pick that place at the Depository, and I stood at the corner of Elm and Houston.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you leave Love Field before the President did?

Mr. WORRELL - Oh, yes.

Mr. SPECTER - Why did you happen to leave Love Field before he left?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, so I could see him better.

Mr. SPECTER - Couldn't you get a good view of him a Love Field?

Mr. WORRELL - No, I just saw him get off the plane and I figured that I wasn't going to see him good so I was going to get a better place to see him.

Mr. SPECTER - How did you travel from Love Field to Elm and Houston?

Mr. WORRELL - Bus. No, no; I just traveled so far on the bus. I went down to Elm, and took a buds from there. I went down as far as, I don't know where that bus stops, anyway, I got close to there and I walked the rest of the way.

Mr. SPECTER - What time, to the best of your recollection, did you arrive at the intersection of Elm and Houston?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, about 10, 10:30, 10:45, something around there. There weren't many people standing around there then.

Mr. SPECTER - Well about how long before the Presidential motorcade came to Elm and Houston did you get there?

Mr. WORRELL - An hour; an hour and a half.

WOW,,,,
if you throw out Worrell' ludicrous times you could put him on the bus!

Imagine Bledsoe seeing this Twenty-year-old high school dropout. I wonder if he always wore glasses or he forgot them that day and thus couldn't see far away, ie needed to get close to parade.

He is an avis bus rider.      http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0436-001.gif

He is also an avid bullshitter. He had to go home by bus and see what happened on TV most likely.
Worrell along with Jackson in the press car, and Dan Rather, suffer from Brian Williams syndrome.
Wanting to inject oneself into a story because to do so is okay as long as your adding to the story.
Worrell added the person coming from the back door and like Jackson the rifle.
Only  Worrell saw a rifle sticking out far enough so you can look up from below on the sidewalk and see the barrel and some of the stock sticking out beyond the brickwork...oy vey
These folks whom mis-remember, whom injected themselves, forget the diminutive size of that rifle. It would not protrude from the window as such is claimed.
Even in the Shanneyfelt recreation photo, the rifle is not protruding.
If seated and with two boxes in front of him the short armed 'sniper' would have to wave the gun out the window with one arm extended to get it 'out the window'. Then why didn't the boy's on Five see it protruding?


Most excellent video with 6th floor torn up still, and other goodies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExsNj9H7LbA

Video makes me think LHO took a cab to Neely Street, went into 214, got his "pistol", a loaner from a friend, and in the hiding spot was James Jackson's pay stub which got mixed with his fake wallet, papers, communist manifesto, etc. Haha
He then goes to movies. Where cop says "Here He Is", while others are being frisked in the front rows.
Stuart L Reed heard a cop state out front of the theater that the suspect 'killed the president',.
Any ways
Video shows man sitting and firing from behind two boxes would not have 38" weapon protrude from window of that building.

Mr. WORRELL - Yes, sir, I looked up and saw the rifle, but I would say about 6 inches of it.    HOGWASH

Mr. WORRELL - I went east.

Mr. SPECTER - You went in an easterly direction how many blocks down Pacific?

Mr. WORRELL - I went down to Market and from Market I went on Ross.

Mr. SPECTER - You went left on Market down to Ross, and then?

Mr. WORRELL - From Ross I went all the way to Ervay.

Mr. SPECTER - Where were you heading for at the time?

Mr. WORRELL - For the bus stop near my mother's office. And I rode the bus from there out to the school and hitchhiked the rest of the way to Farmer's Branch. 

Okay he rode from Evray and Ross to Thomas Jefferson High School.
That is far enough away from his home he could hitchhike.
Why not just blend in with other students and take the school bus home? He was still enrolled.

Again the sense of reason  Cooper asks the question that got Worrell to slip up. Remember he never saw more than the tip of the gun a few inches.

Senator COOPER - You stated that, I believe, you looked up after you had heard the first report?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - You looked up and saw the barrel of a rifle, and then the rifle fired. What made you know that it fired?

Mr. WORRELL - Pardon?

Senator COOPER - How did you know it was fired when you were looking at it?

Mr. WORRELL - Well, I saw what you might call a little flame and smoke.

Senator COOPER - You saw something that came out of the barrel?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Were you looking at it when you heard the third report?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes, sir, looking at it, turning around and started to run.

Senator COOPER - Did you see anything then?

Mr. WORRELL - Same thing, a little flash of fire and then smoke. I didn't see it on the fourth one.

Senator COOPER - Did you only look at the car in which the President was riding one time when you saw him slump?

Mr. WORRELL - Yes, sir.

Senator COOPER - Did you look back at the President's car then?

Mr. WORRELL - No, sir. I didn't do that because, I mean I didn't know if there was one or more guns, because I wondered why if it was in such rapid succession being a bolt action, I found out later, and I didn't know what was coming off, so I was running to the back of the building because I figured that would be the safest place.

So he slips and says the reason  he ran was that fast firing bolt action he did not know was a bolt action till later but still ran beacause of how fast that bolt action was firing, directly over his head.
"What was coming off" is odd to say, ...what was going on... would be correct today, did America somehow flip this saying around post '63?



Reed and his theater pics cement the fact LHO's shirt was so mangled that the pristine transfer could never had survived this gauntlet.
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1480455024

No way Jose!

Which bus? Helen Markham 1:12 Patton and Jefferson bus, Hmmm.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=762993

I know you can never make assumptions concerning other people's behaviours that you may believe to be odd but Helen could have shaven 30 seconds off that walk by heading down South Crawford Street toward Jefferson rather that the route she took down Patton.