REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

The bus story that is a full crock is the Walker shooting by bus.
Marina has LHO studying maps and bus schedules, "calculating" something.
Like how he is going to carry a rifle on a bus and then transfer to another bus with said rifle... oy vey

But we have another bus rider with interesting connections
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=140868
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Armstrong_Ex_5310_A-G.pdf
Note address would have to be DIXON Cir.

Odell was right!
Subject was wearing a hat and dark jacket!

Another interesting point about the rifle on the bus is Marina saying Lee used to wrap rifle in his over coat.

Whooops, what overcoat? She said he had two jackets, one grey and one blue... where did the overcoat come from?
Where is the overcoat?


"Oswald’s personally-owned and -worn long double-breasted raincoat issued by the United States Marine Corps, dark green, size 38R, stenciled inside the collar area, “L. H. Oswald.” His name is also stenciled inside the belt, which is included. In fine condition. Accompanied by a certificate of authenticity from University Archives and notarized letter from Robert L. Oswald, in part: “Lee wore this coat during the period of time from his enlistment in 1956 until his discharge in September 1959. Before leaving for Europe in September 1959, Lee left this very coat with me in my Fort Worth home.” An outstanding piece with impeccable provenance, this is the only clothing officially issued to Oswald we have offered. RR Auction COA."   https://rrauctions.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/lee-harvey-oswald-government-issue-marine-corp-raincoat/

JC White is another bus/cabbie to cop recruit. He might have known Cecil even.

Mr. BALL. And what did you do?

Mr. WHITE. Went to driving a city bus.

Mr. BALL. How long did you drive a city bus?

Mr. WHITE. 6 years.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?

Mr. WHITE. Joined the Police Department.

Mr. BALL. How long ago?

Mr. WHITE. 1956.

Lee Farley at February 16, 2015 at 8:38 AM

Ed wrote:

"October 18, 1963: LHO receives a ride from Buell Frazier to the Paine home, where a surprise birthday party is waiting for him."

This is one detail where Ruth Paine nearly fucked herself up royally.  It is not clear whether he came home this weekend for a "birthday party" because this weekend was the weekend that Marina went into labor.  

 

Mr. JENNER - Do you know how he returned to Dallas that following morning, that is the 22d?

Mrs. PAINE - Probably went with Wesley also.

Mr. JENNER - And he came out the following weekend, did he?

Mrs. PAINE - Yes. That was his birthday.

Mr. JENNER - The 18th of October is his birthday. Did you have a party for him?

Mrs. PAINE - We had a cake; yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER - Was that weekend uneventful?

Mrs. PAINE - Well, Marina was already home.

Mr. JENNER - The baby was now home. She came home very quickly?

Mrs. PAINE - Very quickly, a day and a half. She was home on Tuesday, the 16th, is that right-- skipped a day, the 22d. So that his party was the week before, too. I was wrong then.

Bullshitter.

Your right Lee,

I think I found her bullshittering her self into a self confession.
Read this a couple times on your own and I will highlight it in the next post.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us where the blanket was found?

Mr. PAINE - It doesn't really make sense as to why they would still leave the blanket there, and these things would have been discussed at that time, but I kind of remember a kind of silhouette situation, a police officer either lifted up or kicked this blanket, which was in exactly the same location that the rifle, the package had been, underneath the saw and somewhat in the sawdust. And I think he put it back there. He may have asked me at that time, "Did you know what was in this?"

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember that?

Mr. PAINE - And that is why I think they asked me, it may have been as early as that, whether it was a rifle, "Do you think it could have been a rifle?" I don't remember how it was posed, but I probably answered when it was suggested, it was a rifle, and there they suggested it was a rifle, because they had already learned from Marina that he had had a rifle, and it had been, perhaps, had learned it had been in that blanket.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know they had previously asked Marina about that?

Mr. PAINE - No; but I think--I'm just telling you my impressions here, very fuzzy impressions.

Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead.

Mr. PAINE - My impression was that they asked me if I knew what was in this blanket, or he asked me, and then he asked me if it could be a rifle, and I probably responded, yes. It didn't take long once the rifle was suggested as the object to fit this puzzle together, this puzzle of the pieces that 1 had been trying to assemble in the package.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us where the blanket was found?

Mr. PAINE - It doesn't really make sense as to why they would still leave the blanket there, and these things would have been discussed at that time, but I kind of remember a kind of silhouette situation, a police officer either lifted up or kicked this blanket, which was in exactly the same location that the rifle, the package had been, underneath the saw and somewhat in the sawdust. And I think he put it back there. He may have asked me at that time, "Did you know what was in this?"

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember that?

Mr. PAINE - And that is why I think they asked me, it may have been as early as that, whether it was a rifle, "Do you think it could have been a rifle?" I don't remember how it was posed, but I probably answered when it was suggested, it was a rifle, and there they suggested it was a rifle, because they had already learned from Marina that he had had a rifle, and it had been, perhaps, had learned it had been in that blanket.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know they had previously asked Marina about that?

Mr. PAINE - No; but I think--I'm just telling you my impressions here, very fuzzy impressions.

Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead.

Mr. PAINE - My impression was that they asked me if I knew what was in this blanket, or he asked me, and then he asked me if it could be a rifle, and I probably responded, yes. It didn't take long once the rifle was suggested as the object to fit this puzzle together, this puzzle of the pieces that 1 had been trying to assemble in the package.

I found James Porter Routt.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5s6AmLJCadkJ:www.mocavo.com/Brenda-Routt-Texas-Birth-Record-Index-1926-1995/15785764959286599178+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Daughter was Brend Routt could be alive and was old enough at the time to help with some questions.

Can we find her or James?

If we can message me info, and I will interview them.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=70149559

James passed in 1978

ROUTT, BRENDA Lee who was 37 (born ABT 1939) married 9 JUL 1976 in DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS, U.S.A. a groom named CLIFTON W HOFFMAN who was 30 (born ABT 1946)

Okay then, Brenda Lee Hoffman.

How did the cops learn from Marina that Lee had a rifle and it was kept in the garage? I assume Ruth translated for them. Why would she use the word "perhaps" they learned from Marina?

Colin Crow at February 20, 2015 at 7:15 AM

How did the cops learn from Marina that Lee had a rifle and it was kept in the garage? I assume Ruth translated for them. Why would she use the word "perhaps" they learned from Marina?

Colin that is classic!

Here is another,

Jane Russell giving The BUSter Award by Dallas Transit Company To William Milburn Ellis For Outstanding Performance Of Duty. Sept 30, 1957

I was wondering did Cecil get a "BUSter" Award ?

I'm not sure if this has been raised here or elsewhere in the past, but...

The timing of 4:05 for the finding of the transfer ticket just doesn't work... I think it was "backdated" and here's why...

No questions were asked about a bus ticket immediately after for the Markham show-up, In fact, in the following interrogation, tey get their first real clue about how he got away... because this is when Roger Craig makes his appearance. We know the cops took this lead seriously because Curry was still under the impression this was the most likely means of transsport when interviewed saturday evening. He even said they were looking for the driver. There is no way they take Craig seriously if they have a bus ticket  found on the suspect. 6:30 is the show-up for McWatters. It is not until the interrofgation after that in which any questions are allegedly asked about a bus... that interrogation began ast 7:55.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

I know there is other evidence suggesting the ticket was found at 4:05, but how solid is that evidence really? If it could have been faked, it was because Craig's appearance and the initial acceptance of the Rambler stor plus no bus questions before 7:55 show it was "found" no sooner than the appearance of McWatters. 

Here is something else that looks a little odd to me... the bus ticket has been added  in under a different hand

Lastly, here is a Texas case where a bus ticket was fingerprinted.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Prisoner-to-be-Retried-33-Years-After-Conviction-Was-Thrown-Out-211528291.html

Greg,

the all caps notation for the ticket has similar R and N for the word RING to me. Not sure but it seems it could be same person. When were the key and page of rifle magazine ads found? These times would bookend the transfer maybe.

Colin, from memory, both those items came via Harry Holmes, but not sure when and getting  a bit late to look it up right now.

You are right. It could be the same hand, but I don't understand why that one item would be in all caps, and only one of the 3 "R"s is similar. The "N" less so, IMO - slightly more rounded in all caps version...

Colin, I don't think my thoughts on Holmes were correct. He did go in search of an ad that matched the order and claimed to find one - but this obviously wasn't what was being sent to the lab. 

Greg at February 23, 2015 at 6:25 AM

I'm not sure if this has been raised here or elsewhere in the past, but...

The timing of 4:05 for the finding of the transfer ticket just doesn't work... I think it was "backdated" and here's why...

No questions were asked about a bus ticket immediately after for the Markham show-up, In fact, in the following interrogation, tey get their first real clue about how he got away... because this is when Roger Craig makes his appearance. We know the cops took this lead seriously because Curry was still under the impression this was the most likely means of transsport when interviewed saturday evening. He even said they were looking for the driver. There is no way they take Craig seriously if they have a bus ticket  found on the suspect. 6:30 is the show-up for McWatters. It is not until the interrofgation after that in which any questions are allegedly asked about a bus... that interrogation began ast 7:55.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

I know there is other evidence suggesting the ticket was found at 4:05, but how solid is that evidence really? If it could have been faked, it was because Craig's appearance and the initial acceptance of the Rambler stor plus no bus questions before 7:55 show it was "found" no sooner than the appearance of McWatters. 

Here is something else that looks a little odd to me... the bus ticket has been added  in under a different hand

Lastly, here is a Texas case where a bus ticket was fingerprinted.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Prisoner-to-be-Retried-33-Years-After-Conviction-Was-Thrown-Out-211528291.html

I'll try this - any flaws - point out and shoot 'em down.

Oswald tells them (per Kelley report etc) that he left by bus, obtained a ttransfer and hopped another bus to go to the TT.

This is not mentioned to the press and is later covered up due to the fact that it gets him off the hook for Tiipt shooting,

Then came Roger Craig's story. This assumes top billing as getaway because, unlike bus -> bus, this can be used against him re Tippit - and conspiracy was still on the table... so one more person (the driver) was not an ussue.

Next came the report of the young man laughing maniacally on McWatters bus. It is assumed this must have been Oswald. They grab Mcwatters and realise from his punch that Oswald was on a different bus. Solution, they take one of Cec's tickets, punch it with Cec's punch and get him to confirm it is a ticket from his bus and must be one othe two transfers he gave out. Then the line-up. Ces is confused. The maniacal laughing man is not there. But wanting to help, he picks Oswald as the closest in looks. Except that is turned into a possitive ID.

This scenario is made possible by what looks like evidence of two tickets in the hands of the DPD.

One ticket is listed on the property receipt of pocket litter taken from Oswald at arrest (it is not otherwise identified by a number, route or anything else) - the other is sealed in an evidence envelop to send to the lab with the time backdated to 4:05 to disguise the fact that it came from McWatters bus.

Having now put Oswald on Cec's bus, they must get him off - else there is no hope of getting him to Tippit on time... enter the taxi and Whaley.

After all this, they then - in the reports they would later write - have Osawld admittng - against his own interests - that yes he was on that bus and in that cab. That's how desperate they had become.

There is no way Oswad was going to be allowed to have a trial. Fritz, was indeed, signalling Ruby with his hand to move in and had left plenty of room for him to do it... against theplan he himself had formulated to keep oswald safe during the transfer.

I bet the ticket listed in property wass not pristine...

I don't see anything wrong with your scenario. But I do wonder why they would dump Craig's scenario after running with it. It seemed far easier a scenario to work with - less "creative" work on their part.

So, why did they dump Craig's version? Was it just because he was sticking to the Mauser story and they wanted to make ALL his observations wrong? Or did the station wagon he saw - whether or not it was Ruth's - open another completely different can of worms?

Just trying to understand your thinking.

Terry Martin at February 23, 2015 at 8:19 PM

I don't see anything wrong with your scenario. But I do wonder why they would dump Craig's scenario after running with it. It seemed far easier a scenario to work with - less "creative" work on their part.

So, why did they dump Craig's version? Was it just because he was sticking to the Mauser story and they wanted to make ALL his observations wrong? Or did the station wagon he saw - whether or not it was Ruth's - open another completely different can of worms?

Just trying to understand your thinking.

Terry, 

it could be a couple of things. When was the order handed down to dump all conspiracy leads?

It could be just the opportunity was too good to pass up making him the maniac on the bus - especially if they really did think it was him initially. The maniacal laugh just fits so well with the overwrought script that others were reading from. 

Or maybe it was to protect Ruth Paine and/or the person who jumped in that rambler.

Any of those are possible.

Beowulf at February 23, 2015 at 10:05 PM

Re: inventory list with bus ticket in all caps... That it looks different from other items makes me think something else was written-- say, about a movie ticket-- but was then covered over by liquid paper. Bette Nesmith (her son Michael was in The Monkees) had been selling liquid paper out of her house since the 1950s... And she happened to live in Dallas area.

Ha! I've had her in mind for a few years regarding something else that needed whiting out. She lived not far from Walker.

Terry Martin at February 23, 2015 at 8:19 PM

I don't see anything wrong with your scenario. But I do wonder why they would dump Craig's scenario after running with it. It seemed far easier a scenario to work with - less "creative" work on their part.

So, why did they dump Craig's version? Was it just because he was sticking to the Mauser story and they wanted to make ALL his observations wrong? Or did the station wagon he saw - whether or not it was Ruth's - open another completely different can of worms?

Just trying to understand your thinking.

I would think when the order came down to kill any suggestion of a conspiracy the get away involving someone else had to be deep sixed.