REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

He did, but he flew the number 23 route - though you could probaly get a shopper's transfer at Alburquiokee and catch the 23 at the crossroads of Harveyandlee and Meandlee or Elmer & Fudd. Short landing strips, but Whaley's brother has a knack for extending them a few blocks.

LOL!

Is anyone thinking Frazier might be the guy brought the Carcano into the TSBD? You'd need a BS story to get away with it and this car ride/curtains story stinks of BS.

I am not sure if Oswald caught a lift with Buell or not that morning but it is obvious Frazier and his sister are trying to hide something by telling fibs. Someone had to take the Carcano into the TSBD so why not Buell? He also had access to be able to make a paper bag if there ever was one.

I'm with you Paul. I've thought Frazier's mannerisms and overall pistol-whipped demeanor in the more recent interviews may be because he knows Oswald was on the front steps with him and he's been told to keep his mouth shut or else and his conscience is bothering him. But maybe it goes much deeper than that. Did he even give Oswald a ride to work that day? Is his involvement in this thing greater than we imagined, e.g., bringing in the Carcano, etc.?

This whole thing looks dirty and he's a part of it.

Stan Dane at February 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM

I'm with you Paul. I've thought Frazier's mannerisms and overall pistol-whipped demeanor in the more recent interviews may be because he knows Oswald was on the front steps with him and he's been told to keep his mouth shut or else and his conscience is bothering him. But maybe it goes much deeper than that. Did he even give Oswald a ride to work that day? Is his involvement in this thing greater than we imagined, e.g., bringing in the Carcano, etc.?

 

This whole thing looks dirty and he's a part of it.

 

Its dirty alright, Stan. Oswald was set up and Frazier was in a position to do just that to him. He saw Oswald on the steps but said nothing. He might have been coerced or he may have just played along. Who fucking knows.

One more thing... Frazier was brought down from Huntsville at around the time that a Dallas motorcade was given the go-ahead and the venue decided. At that point, the route was always going to take JFK past the book depository. There is also the disprecency about how Frazier got the job. He calimed he got it through an Irving employment agency. Linnie sclaimed she suggested it to him. Not aware of any evidence the TSBD even used any emplyment agencies, but I believe they may have used the TEC In any case, I have long suspected that Wes was placed in there as part of the overall plan. 

Paul Francisco Paso at February 11, 2015 at 3:09 PM

Is anyone thinking Frazier might be the guy brought the Carcano into the TSBD? You'd need a BS story to get away with it and this car ride/curtains story stinks of BS.

I am not sure if Oswald caught a lift with Buell or not that morning but it is obvious Frazier and his sister are trying to hide something by telling fibs. Someone had to take the Carcano into the TSBD so why not Buell? He also had access to be able to make a paper bag if there ever was one.

I'm not sure whether you caught this or not Paul or Stan, but thats part of my contention.

From the opening page of this post:

I say Frazier created the lift into work with a package along with the aid of LMR and Ruth Paine. I have said all along this was done to frame Oswald and take away suspicion from Wes taking in the throwdown MC rifle

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.

I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.

I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.

I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.

I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.

The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.

From the HSCA interview of Shields

SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.

DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?

SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.

DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."

SHIELDS: Yes.

DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?

SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.

The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………

An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.

Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.

Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.

Paul Francisco Paso at February 11, 2015 at 4:16 PM

Stan Dane at February 11, 2015 at 3:53 PM

I'm with you Paul. I've thought Frazier's mannerisms and overall pistol-whipped demeanor in the more recent interviews may be because he knows Oswald was on the front steps with him and he's been told to keep his mouth shut or else and his conscience is bothering him. But maybe it goes much deeper than that. Did he even give Oswald a ride to work that day? Is his involvement in this thing greater than we imagined, e.g., bringing in the Carcano, etc.?

 

This whole thing looks dirty and he's a part of it.

 

Its dirty alright, Stan. Oswald was set up and Frazier was in a position to do just that to him. He saw Oswald on the steps but said nothing. He might have been coerced or he may have just played along. Who fucking knows.

I believe you guys are spot on......

Terry I believe your first line is spot on.

This from one of my earlier posts:

Linnie Mae and Frazier lied!

I don't really know why but I'm convinced they did. My conjecture is that Wes did do something that morning, such as take in an MC rifle to the TSBD as a throwdown and needed to cover his movements early in the morning.

I think it's safe to say if you subscribe to the theory I'm contending here, that Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were involved in a gigantic fabrication of the mornings events, then those lies were surely perpetuated to hide things which they did, and were involved in, and that they did not want made public.

The evolving story of the diminishing dimensions of the sack by Randle IMO is yet another clue to that deceit.

Frazier's case is particularly interesting, because it is completely possible that as a 19 year old, he may have been coerced or even blackmailed, to do things which at the time he may not have had the ability to say no to, or even the maturity to fully comprehend.

Things which he may have regretted later and over time even became remorseful of.

Of course this is only conjecture on my part. The theory continues!

You see, I happen to believe that Oswald is Prayerman and that Wes did see him on those steps. 

If what is contended here is true, in my mind that explains an awful lot about Wes's behaviour for the past 50 years. 

I've always seen Frazier as some poor dumb cunt, Mick.I am starting to see him differently now. Maybe its no accident that these 2 guys met, like Greg suggests.

I suddenly feel the urge to know a lot more of the where abouts of three people on 22/11/63.

William Randle, Berry Caster, and Marvin Randle

Frazier gets picked up and arrested at Irving Professinal Center by the DPD at about 6.30 (?). What's his movements before this. I mean really, the guy has no real story and is never asked for his movements post assassination. Sure he's picked up at the Irving location but thats not to say he was there for the entire duration. He left work anytime between 1.00 and 2.00, and thats after according to his version after eating lunch in the basement after watching JFK get his brains blown out

Mick, that's the real question. Did he hear Oswald's name on the car radio on the way home or when he arrived via LMR. At that point he knows he is in deep doo-doo. As a 19 year-old what would you do and talk about for the next 4 hours?

"Hi sis, whatya know, it looks like I drove the Presidential assassin to work."

Colin Crow at February 12, 2015 at 1:58 AM

Mick, that's the real question. Did he hear Oswald's name on the car radio on the way home or when he arrived via LMR. At that point he knows he is in deep doo-doo. As a 19 year-old what would you do and talk about for the next 4 hours?

"Hi sis, whatya know, it looks like I drove the Presidential assassin to work."

Colin,

I guess we'll never really know.

It's a valid question, one which I would have thought if the authorities were genuine, should've been asked of a potential accomplice.

I don't subscribe to the theory That Frazier suddenly became frozen with fear after the shooting for whatever the reason.

I do however think its not beyond the realms of possibility that he would seek refuge and time to think through the mornings events and what had transpired. 

Now we know for a fact Linnie was at home around 3.00pm and we know for a fact Frazier was at work at least until 1.00pm. 

There is IMO time for him to meet with Randle and get everything in order, who knows this may have happened at the Irving Professional center, it may have been a meeting place.

But what I can no longer subscribe to, after looking at the totality of the WC testimony the SS interviews and the FBI reports of Linnie Mae and Wes, and of course the most damning of all the HSCA Edward Shields interview regarding Wes's walk into the TSBD that morning,  is IMO the lie, that Wes drove Lee to work and was clueless after the event. Hell by his own admission he supposedly went to the basement and ate his lunch immediately after the shooting. No, he knew the score IMO, just what was he upto in those hours afterward?

Greg at February 11, 2015 at 4:31 PM

One more thing... Frazier was brought down from Huntsville at around the time that a Dallas motorcade was given the go-ahead and the venue decided. At that point, the route was always going to take JFK past the book depository. There is also the disprecency about how Frazier got the job. He calimed he got it through an Irving employment agency. Linnie sclaimed she suggested it to him. Not aware of any evidence the TSBD even used any emplyment agencies, but I believe they may have used the TEC In any case, I have long suspected that Wes was placed in there as part of the overall plan. 

Interesting this isn't it,

all so neat. all so well packaged.

Wes meeting Lee.

Wes started at the TSBD on the 13th September and Oswald according to Ruth started on the 15th October.

The manner in which both these men gained their respective jobs is more than curious, and both men have similar tales to tell as to how they gained that employment. It just so happens that in both cases Linnie Mae and Ruth Paines names are connected to the successful applicants.

If Shields is accurate then Oswald was not with Wes when he arrived at the TSBD parking lot that Friday morning.

I believe its that simple.

The rest of  it, the story of that morning told to us by Linnie Mae and Frazier is irrelevant  IMO, the walk over to Westbrook, I saw a package, I saw him put it in the backseat. he spoke about his kids, the weather was gloomy, I was charging my battery, i was revving the motor, he walked 50 feet ahead of me, I could definitely see him enter the rear TSBD door, is all BS. Because Shields tells us there was no Oswald. The geography of the location where Shields and Wes would have had that exchange tells us it is a certainty that Shields would have seen Oswald.

Edward Shields:

DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?

SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.

DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."

SHIELDS: Yes.

DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?

SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

Mick, you have presented a pretty solid case . A question i would ask regarding BWF taking the rifle in would be...Did BWF have foreknowledge of what was about to occur, or was he himself a gullible dupe. I understand that to answer this you will have to speculate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihrdJbwPbaw

Colin Crow at February 12, 2015 at 8:03 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihrdJbwPbaw

Thanks Colin. Ear damage claim to follow...

steely dan at February 12, 2015 at 6:45 PM

Mick, you have presented a pretty solid case . A question i would ask regarding BWF taking the rifle in would be...Did BWF have foreknowledge of what was about to occur, or was he himself a gullible dupe. I understand that to answer this you will have to speculate.

Steely,

That’s the $64.00 question.

In my mind, it’s not impossible he could have been duped, but only in a limited way.

Let’s say for argument sake Wes was told to take the MC rifle into the TSBD early that Friday morning.

I ask, would it have been possible that Wes on that day, with President Kennedy going to ride past his work building at lunch hour, would he have, on the say so of another person agreed and taken a rifle into his place of employment without having an idea, any clue whatsoever, that the weapon he was carrying wouldn’t be used to injure, maim or kill another person?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

I realise, that’s not what you mean when you asked about being duped, but I think it’s an important question nonetheless.

I also ask is it possible that Wes was told to take the rifle into the TSBD for the purposes for which it was intended, to ultimately frame someone. For me that’s a distinct possibility.

I’ll advance my speculation a little further.

I believe that Wes took that MC rifle into work and knew it was to be used to frame Lee for a crime, 

And I believe, it’s not beyond the realms, to imagine Wesley in the parking lot hidden behind the tin shed, getting a package to one of the skeleton staff down at the warehouse on N Houston.

It’s not hard to imagine Wesley walking in alone in the carpark, and creating the illusion that Oswald is with him by hollering back to Givens ‘I dropped him off at the building”

It’s then, not a stretch IMO to believe that the package could have been delivered to the 411 Elm Street building by any one of the skeleton staff members from the warehouse on N Houston on that day.

It’s not impossible either that Bill Randle supplied Wesley with the MC rifle and the telescopic sight to take into the Texas school Depository on 411 Elm Street.

Well, Mick, with the level of the operation going down, it does not sound like the major intelligence bureaus were pulling the strings, does it?

Sounds more like the local Birchers, the KKK, or allies of Billy Sol Estes were trying to "get even" or something, rather than any high level intel op.

Colin Crow at February 12, 2015 at 8:03 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihrdJbwPbaw

Thanks Collin, I think you'll have a class action your hands mate.....more ear damage!

As an aside have a close look at the Q&A on the Vid regarding Whether Buell had ever used the paper or the tape at West's packaging table.

It's priceless.