REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Lee Farley at February 6, 2015 at 8:06 AM

Mick,

 

Don't forget that the direction Frazier's car when parked next to the car port suddenly changed during the investigation.

Hi Lee 

Thanks Lee, are you able to be more specific.

I'm not aware of this so thanks for the heads up

Trust you're well

Was Frazier really at home having breakfast. Seems he struggled to remember if he was running late or not

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; it didn't. I just thought maybe, you know, he just left a little bit earlier but when I looked up and saw that the clock was. I knew I was the one who was running a little bit late because, as I say, I was talking, sitting there eating breakfast and talking to the little nieces, it was later than I thought it was.

Mr. BALL - Were you later than usual that morning?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe we were, because we got to work on time. I say, when I looked at the clock, after I glanced he was there a split second and I just turned around and looked at the clock to see what time it was and it was right amount (around) 7:21

Who the hell remembers 7.21 as a time for departure anyway

IIRC, what Lee is referring to is that the WC had Frazier's car parked adjacent to the carport tail-end to the street, making Oswald have to walk between the car and the carport to open the back door ("easier for LMR to see his actions" supposedly).

By Frazier's testimony, however, he had backed into the space by the carport - sort of like for a quick getaway, perhaps - leaving the backdoor that supposedly allowed entrance of the long brown bag further from the house allowing easy access to Oswald.

But, of course, since Oswald did not arrive that morning, it is all academic and further example of conflicting elements in the story for people to argue over, yea or nay, while ignoring the real problem with the evidence.

(I had the photos of Frazier's parking somewhere but cannot seem to find them at the moment.)

And I would agree that 7:21 is a ridiculous departure time. I always preferred precisely 7:33.

I agree with Mick that the small talk in the car is bullshit. Yes, Oswald loved his kids. But for Wes to say out of the blue during the 6th week of driving him to work about how he loved playing with the kids... just doesn't ring true. All that stuff would be well past it's used by date. 

As for Frazier - his contradictions about running late extend into the reason he gave --- talking to the kids... because he also testified he talked to them every morning at breakfast.... why would doing it that morning suddenly make him late?

The problem for us is the same as in other parts of the case -- this trip to work is ingrained. But it's more than just that. It is the sheer volume and size of the lies. People have great difficulty believing that such mammoth lies could be attempted, let alone gotten away with... so they tend to assume anyone believing "it's all lies" are just uber-consiracists who are predisposed to believe "everything is a lie". And if you try and give the evidence, it is so unqweildy and convoluted that it's hard to grasp. They now think you're not only an unber-conspiricist, but you've also lost your cotton-pickin' mind. 

We are on the right side of this, but isolated by the vastness of it... not being defeatist, just realistic. It's just another problem to work on... and a test of wills.... 

Terry Martin at February 7, 2015 at 5:01 AM

IIRC, what Lee is referring to is that the WC had Frazier's car parked adjacent to the carport tail-end to the street, making Oswald have to walk between the car and the carport to open the back door ("easier for LMR to see his actions" supposedly).

By Frazier's testimony, however, he had backed into the space by the carport - sort of like for a quick getaway, perhaps - leaving the backdoor that supposedly allowed entrance of the long brown bag further from the house allowing easy access to Oswald.

But, of course, since Oswald did not arrive that morning, it is all academic and further example of conflicting elements in the story for people to argue over, yea or nay, while ignoring the real problem with the evidence.

(I had the photos of Frazier's parking somewhere but cannot seem to find them at the moment.)

And I would agree that 7:21 is a ridiculous departure time. I always preferred precisely 7:33.

Yes Terry 7.33 is so much more civilised.

Mick Purdy at February 7, 2015 at 6:46 AM

Terry Martin at February 7, 2015 at 5:01 AM

IIRC, what Lee is referring to is that the WC had Frazier's car parked adjacent to the carport tail-end to the street, making Oswald have to walk between the car and the carport to open the back door ("easier for LMR to see his actions" supposedly).

By Frazier's testimony, however, he had backed into the space by the carport - sort of like for a quick getaway, perhaps - leaving the backdoor that supposedly allowed entrance of the long brown bag further from the house allowing easy access to Oswald.

But, of course, since Oswald did not arrive that morning, it is all academic and further example of conflicting elements in the story for people to argue over, yea or nay, while ignoring the real problem with the evidence.

(I had the photos of Frazier's parking somewhere but cannot seem to find them at the moment.)

And I would agree that 7:21 is a ridiculous departure time. I always preferred precisely 7:33.

Yes Terry 7.33 is so much more civilised.

And thanks Terry for the info much appreciated mate

Greg at February 7, 2015 at 6:44 AM

I agree with Mick that the small talk in the car is bullshit. Yes, Oswald loved his kids. But for Wes to say out of the blue during the 6th week of driving him to work about how he loved playing with the kids... just doesn't ring true. All that stuff would be well past it's used by date. 

As for Frazier - his contradictions about running late extend into the reason he gave --- talking to the kids... because he also testified he talked to them every morning at breakfast.... why would doing it that morning suddenly make him late?

The problem for us is the same as in other parts of the case -- this trip to work is ingrained. But it's more than just that. It is the sheer volume and size of the lies. People have great difficulty believing that such mammoth lies could be attempted, let alone gotten away with... so they tend to assume anyone believing "it's all lies" are just uber-consiracists who are predisposed to believe "everything is a lie". And if you try and give the evidence, it is so unqweildy and convoluted that it's hard to grasp. They now think you're not only an unber-conspiricist, but you've also lost your cotton-pickin' mind. 

We are on the right side of this, but isolated by the vastness of it... not being defeatist, just realistic. It's just another problem to work on... and a test of wills.... 

Greg,

I have to say I agree with your assessment . On the surface this "Frazier didn't drive Oswald" thing is hard to swallow. But you're right, it fits with everything else on that day, I mean everything. Lee was Reamed Royally!  And almost every facet of that Reaming is fabricated by genuine  arseholes. Take it from me I don't often get agitated, but I'm done. We need to keep the bastards honest. We are on the right side and thanks to you Greg Parker we have a small chance at hitting them for six.

at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly

That’s the big lie. It gave Randle the opportunity to spin her yarn.

If her story about Lee crossing that Street were true, there would have never been a reason to “see who was fixing to come to her back door”

And she also would have known who it was for the simple fact, Wes was driving Lee to work and she knew it.

It is that simple.

If what she said under oath was true then it’s reprehensible and inconceivable Randle wasn’t cautioned at that precise moment by her examiner Mr. Ball.

That one sentence, as Ball would have known, should have placed her sighting of Lee crossing that street with a package in jeopardy.

This one lie, allowed a free pass by Ball, was instrumental in helping to create the Legend of LHO.

It’s Randle’s ever so damaging testimony of peering through that kitchen door albeit only briefly, but long enough to see Oswald walk to the car, and place a package on either the floor or back seat of Wes’s car that helped creat the myth and seel the deal.

Job done.

You're right, Mick.

Who the fuck, in Randle's situation, wouldn't turn around to Wes (who was allegeldy late for work by the way) and say "Hey, Wes.  Lee is on his way over."

Oh no.  Instead we are expected to believe the utter bullshit that you wouldn't believe if it was written in a piece of trash pulp fiction novel.

Lucky guy that Lee Oswald.  Wesley's rear car doors being open that morning, eh?

Am i right in thinking that it was one particular rear door that failed to lock properly, as BWF explained to a fairly sceptical HSCA. That may explain why the car needed to do an about turn in the way it was parked. Otherwise LMR would need to be able to see through both the car port wall and the car itself.

I don't think it's any surprise why the Randles kept a very low profile after the WC and refused almost all interviews.

steely dan at February 7, 2015 at 6:05 PM

Am i right in thinking that it was one particular rear door that failed to lock properly, as BWF explained to a fairly sceptical HSCA. That may explain why the car needed to do an about turn in the way it was parked. Otherwise LMR would need to be able to see through both the car port wall and the car itself.

That's correct, Steely.

He explained this to Jack Moriarty who was one of the lead investigators for the HSCA after Moriarty asked Frazier if he always locked his car doors. Frazier answered yes.  How then did Oswald get in it to put the package in the back?

Cue fumbling and mumbling.

It just so happened, you'll never believe this, that the exact door that Oswald tried so he could get his disassembled rifle in, was broken.  The exact door.  Wow!  Million to one shot.

Oswald that weekend missed his chance to change his lot in life.  He should have phoned in sick at work and fucked off to the race track.

Well you can't beat an honest investigation, so it's quite right this one is getting a fucking good arse kicking. For anyone to defend this crap, be they former WC loyers, media stars, or internet nasties, there can be no defence of ignorance. The FBI never told us this, the CIA never told us that. Get the fuck outta here. You had umpteen poor sods plonked infront of you who damned themselves.... or else.

If someone were to ask me what the # 1 guiding principle of ROKC is, I would say that nothing is sacred and everything must be questioned and validated. Everything.

If Lee Oswald did not ride to work with Buell Wesley Frazier on the morning of November 22, 1963, then everything I think I know about BWF right now is wrong. It puts him in a totally different light.

But after the dismantling of the Second Floor encounter, nothing surprises me.

To my fellow ROKCers and all of the truly great work done over the past couple of weeks, I say "well done."

Appologies for this post appearing twice... fucked if i know how it happened...although one of my cockatiels was arseing about on a laptop

LMR claimed to have not recognised who it was crossing the road on the way to the car. Yet she seems more interested in the package. I do not believe she saw Oswald or any package. Her story at the Paine's on Friday afternoon to the cops is contrived. I thought initially to clear her brother and make him as innocent as possible. Now it might have been to deflect attention from William Randle. Didnt Lee sleep in that morning as well? Perhaps he missed his ride with BWF after all.

steely dan at February 7, 2015 at 7:44 PM

Appologies for this post appearing twice... fucked if i know how it happened...although one of my cockatiels was arseing about on a laptop

C'mon Steely.... I've lost count of how many times I've heard that excuse.

ps it was actually 3 times...:lol:

Colin Crow at February 7, 2015 at 8:55 PM

LMR claimed to have not recognised who it was crossing the road on the way to the car. Yet she seems more interested in the package. I do not believe she saw Oswald or any package. Her story at the Paine's on Friday afternoon to the cops is contrived. I thought initially to clear her brother and make him as innocent as possible. Now it might have been to deflect attention from William Randle. Didnt Lee sleep in that morning as well? Perhaps he missed his ride with BWF after all.

Colin, I can't find anything in Marina's testimony suggesting he was running late.

But for the sake of argument, let's try and follow the official story logically. Officially he walked up to the Randle house because Wes hadn't turned up.

If you are waiting for a lift and they don't turn up at "the usual time", I think it would be mnormal to wait a few minutes before trudging off to their place... especially since you'll be carrying a poorly concealed rifle on the walk along a path offering very little in the way of screening of curious eyes.

But since Wes says at first he is running a little late, then decides he is not... it appears that Oswald did not wait very long (if at all) after Wes was "due".

It is another another gaping hole in the official story. 

I must be going senile.....sure I read somewhere where Marina thought he woke late. In any event it seems that he got up, left Marina to feed Rachel.....made and instant coffee etc and left. If he had "the package" he would have to weigh up the pros and cons. Getting the package away from the Paine house ASAP might be a priority so that neither Ruth or Marina might question him about it before BWF arrives. The downside is the risk of carrying it in the rain......and the tape falling apart. 

Well... there's another issue... Ruth Paine and kids still being in bed... more than possible, but not the norm with anyone with young kids in my experience. Look at Linnie Mae... she was up and fixing breakfast for everyone. Even the old girl was up...