REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Greg at November 11, 2015 at 8:59 PM

Taken from an earlier post found upstream

she states she then went back inside the TSBD].I went back into our building and up to the second floor to our office. Just after I entered the office, I saw one of the men who work in the warehouse come through the back office door. This door is located near the lunch room and the rear stairway. I did not know this man's name at the time for he had not worked there long. However I now know his name to be Lee Harvey Oswald. I said to Lee, 'Oh! some one has shot at the president. I hope they didn't hit him. Lee mumbled something and walked out of the office.

It was Sean Murphy, prior to any online discussion about Prayer Man, who pointed out to me that Mrs. Reid's name was hand-written at the bottom edge of Roy Truly's statement.

Mrs. Reid's  soon-to-be-taken affidavit would confirm Oswald being on the 2nd floor (first floor in Aus) . Was Mrs. Reid's name written down specifically to reinforce Oswald being up on that floor post-assassination? It would seem so. Mrs. Reid was a grandmother who had been with the company for 7 years and was described as a "clerical supervisor" - though I have also seen her described as Truly's secretary.

Murphy would go on to demsonstrate that Reid's story was virtually impossible. Geneva Hine had volunteered to stay on the 2nd floor to handle incoming calls while the other staff went down to watch the motorcade. Given where Ms. Hine was located, and where Reid located her post-assassination chat with Oswald, it would have been impossible - absolutely impossible for Hine not to have noticed Reid and Oswald and for Reid not to have noticed Hine. Yet neither mentions seeing the other. 

It seems Reid's loyalty to Truly led her to change the timeframe of when she had seen Oswald. Oswald himself mentions going up for a coke PRE-assassination - and this was undoubtedly when Mrs. Reid had actyally seen him up there.

Further evidence for this is that she described Oswald as weaing a white t-shirt - no outer shirt. His normal routine was similar to other workers there. They would wear a shirt and/or jacket over a t-shirt and strip down to the t-shirt only while working. Moreover - and this is crucial - fibers from that shirt were allegedly found on the rifle as another piece of evdence against Oswald. For Reid's statement to be true, not only would she have had to be blind to Hine sitting right there behind a desk, Hine would have to have been blind and deaf to Reid and Oswald --- AND - Oswald would have had to have put his outer shirt on to take the shots, get the shots off,  dump the rifle, then race down for his legendary encounter with Baker and Truly in the 2nd floor lunchroom. Now he has to take his outer shirt off and somehow hide it on himself so that Reid doesn't notice it,  cross paths with her, then race down to the 1st (ground) floor where he puts his outer shirt back on and grabs his coat which also has to be hidden on him since the witnesses on the getaway bus he is now heading for don't mention it. Bus stalls in traffic - he gets off, makes his magic coat reappear, puts it on and goes the rest of the way by cab. 

In short, Mrs. ReiId gilded the lily big-time. And she did it for her boss, Mr. Truly who will be unequivolcally revealed to be the inside man in the framing of Oswald in the next volume of my series Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War. 

Simply brilliant!

So now we know.

Truly!

This is a perfect example of how simple things were that day for the framers of Oswald.

No complex scenario here just an employer and a loyal employee.

A loyal employee who would lie through her teeth for the master of her employ.

How many others under Truly's command followed the same path that day I wonder.

Aiken, Shelley, Dougherty, Piper, West, Lovelady, Frazier to name a few.

Stan Dane at November 14, 2015 at 2:54 PM

Barto at November 14, 2015 at 2:41 PM

A few bits on the up and coming movie

http://www.prayer-man.com/prayer-man-the-movie/

It's going to be simply awesome, Bart.

I hope so to Stan as I will not have much sleep the next few days, thanks m8.

It'll be worth it Bart

Another good discussion led by Sean for those who haven't seen it
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/jWHabbX9LwU/F-JkCt_jPMEJ

From Holmes' testimony regarding his interrogation of Oswald. He is quoting Oswald in this passage:

"I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

I believe ( 1 ) Oswald was asked for contact details here and flashed his library upside down so that it was transcribed as "Harvey Lee Oswald". This card had an old address and it too was mustrancribed because it was wrong way up. It was noted as 605 Elspeth instead of 602. This name and address are found at the top of the list of emploee details obtianed by police as they released people from the building. All sorts of wild theories have accounted for the name address being wrong (Two Oswalds, Military Inel supplied the details etc). This accounts for it using actual evidence, common sense and Occam's razor. and ( 2 ) that this testimony is talking about the same incident as Junior Jarman told to the HSCA investigator when he said "I heard that Oswald had come down through the office and came down the front stairs and he was stopped by the officer that had stopped us and sent us back in the building and Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us." 

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing. 

addebdum: the officer involved here was most likely Welcome Barnett who was the first officer stationed at the fron entrance. He specifically denied seeing Oswald leave, but could we expect him to admit otheriwse?

 And Welcome Barnett was a good friend of Jack Ruby too - wasn't he? I recall he visited Ruby in jail. Indeed. Of course he denied it, but his name was on Ruby's visitor's list:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/16/1655-001.gif

Linda Giovanna Zambanini at November 16, 2015 at 9:33 PM

 And Welcome Barnett was a good friend of Jack Ruby too - wasn't he? I recall he visited Ruby in jail. Indeed. Of course he denied it, but his name was on Ruby's visitor's list:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/16/1655-001.gif

Welcome, Indeed!

Greg at November 16, 2015 at 8:12 PM

From Holmes' testimony regarding his interrogation of Oswald. He is quoting Oswald in this passage:

"I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

I believe ( 1 ) Oswald was asked for contact details here and flashed his library upside down so that it was transcribed as "Harvey Lee Oswald". This card had an old address and it too was mustrancribed because it was wrong way up. It was noted as 605 Elspeth instead of 602. This name and address are found at the top of the list of emploee details obtianed by police as they released people from the building. All sorts of wild theories have accounted for the name address being wrong (Two Oswalds, Military Inel supplied the details etc). This accounts for it using actual evidence, common sense and Occam's razor. and ( 2 ) that this testimony is talking about the same incident as Junior Jarman told to the HSCA investigator when he said "I heard that Oswald had come down through the office and came down the front stairs and he was stopped by the officer that had stopped us and sent us back in the building and Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us." 

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing. 

addebdum: the officer involved here was most likely Welcome Barnett who was the first officer stationed at the fron entrance. He specifically denied seeing Oswald leave, but could we expect him to admit otheriwse?

Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us."

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing.

OR...Maybe Junior Jarman et al were stopped form leaving because they didn't have Truly (or anyone else) to "vouch" for them?

Smee at November 17, 2015 at 2:52 AM

Greg at November 16, 2015 at 8:12 PM

From Holmes' testimony regarding his interrogation of Oswald. He is quoting Oswald in this passage:

"I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

I believe ( 1 ) Oswald was asked for contact details here and flashed his library upside down so that it was transcribed as "Harvey Lee Oswald". This card had an old address and it too was mustrancribed because it was wrong way up. It was noted as 605 Elspeth instead of 602. This name and address are found at the top of the list of emploee details obtianed by police as they released people from the building. All sorts of wild theories have accounted for the name address being wrong (Two Oswalds, Military Inel supplied the details etc). This accounts for it using actual evidence, common sense and Occam's razor. and ( 2 ) that this testimony is talking about the same incident as Junior Jarman told to the HSCA investigator when he said "I heard that Oswald had come down through the office and came down the front stairs and he was stopped by the officer that had stopped us and sent us back in the building and Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us." 

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing. 

addebdum: the officer involved here was most likely Welcome Barnett who was the first officer stationed at the fron entrance. He specifically denied seeing Oswald leave, but could we expect him to admit otheriwse?

Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us."

 

 

 

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing.

OR...Maybe Junior Jarman et al were stopped form leaving because they didn't have Truly (or anyone else) to "vouch" for them?

It remains the case that Oswald was - on the basis of this evidence - allowed - or even encouraged to leave - well ahead of everyone else. If Lovelady witnessed Oswald being let go, why wasn't he - or indeed, others who were down there, for example Troy West,  likewise told they could go?

Mr. BELIN - Do you know anything else about what happened on November 22, that might be helpful or relevant here?

Mr. WEST - No, sir; I don't really.

Mr. BELIN - Were you ever on the second floor on November 22?

Mr. WEST - No, sir; I never did hardly ever leave the first floor. That is I just stayed there where all my work was, and I just stayed there.

Mr. BELIN - On November 22, did you ever leave the first floor?

Mr. WEST - No, sir; I never did leave the first floor.

---------------

From Troy West FBI statment  in CE1381 

"I was walking toward the front when people rushed in and told me that someone had shot President kennedy.... I left the Texas School Book Depository Building about  2:00 pm that afternoon."

Greg at November 17, 2015 at 5:25 AM

Smee at November 17, 2015 at 2:52 AM

Greg at November 16, 2015 at 8:12 PM

From Holmes' testimony regarding his interrogation of Oswald. He is quoting Oswald in this passage:

"I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

I believe ( 1 ) Oswald was asked for contact details here and flashed his library upside down so that it was transcribed as "Harvey Lee Oswald". This card had an old address and it too was mustrancribed because it was wrong way up. It was noted as 605 Elspeth instead of 602. This name and address are found at the top of the list of emploee details obtianed by police as they released people from the building. All sorts of wild theories have accounted for the name address being wrong (Two Oswalds, Military Inel supplied the details etc). This accounts for it using actual evidence, common sense and Occam's razor. and ( 2 ) that this testimony is talking about the same incident as Junior Jarman told to the HSCA investigator when he said "I heard that Oswald had come down through the office and came down the front stairs and he was stopped by the officer that had stopped us and sent us back in the building and Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us." 

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing. 

addebdum: the officer involved here was most likely Welcome Barnett who was the first officer stationed at the fron entrance. He specifically denied seeing Oswald leave, but could we expect him to admit otheriwse?

Mr Trudy [sic] told them that he was alright, that he worked here, so he proceeded out the building and we wondered why he stopped us."

 

 

 

Indeed, Junior, indeed. Maybe because Mr. Trudy was not setting you up? He was sending the patsy out earlier to look like he was fleeing.

OR...Maybe Junior Jarman et al were stopped form leaving because they didn't have Truly (or anyone else) to "vouch" for them?

It remains the case that Oswald was - on the basis of this evidence - allowed - or even encouraged to leave - well ahead of everyone else. If Lovelady witnessed Oswald being let go, why wasn't he - or indeed, others who were down there, for example Troy West,  likewise told they could go?

 

Mr. BELIN - Do you know anything else about what happened on November 22, that might be helpful or relevant here?

Mr. WEST - No, sir; I don't really.

Mr. BELIN - Were you ever on the second floor on November 22?

Mr. WEST - No, sir; I never did hardly ever leave the first floor. That is I just stayed there where all my work was, and I just stayed there.

Mr. BELIN - On November 22, did you ever leave the first floor?

Mr. WEST - No, sir; I never did leave the first floor.

---------------

From Troy West FBI statment  in CE1381 

"I was walking toward the front when people rushed in and told me that someone had shot President kennedy.... I left the Texas School Book Depository Building about  2:00 pm that afternoon."

I agree that it all seems a bit odd - Truly apprently vouches for Oswald at the front door, allowing him to leave the TSBD but then, shortly afterwards informs Fritz that Oswald is missing from the roll call...something ain't walking like a duck...

Strange days indeed mamma!

Maybe just maybe PM left by the rear dock entrance.

Just as the guy who stood next to him on the steps remembers.

Mick Purdy at November 17, 2015 at 7:15 AM

Strange days indeed mamma!

Maybe just maybe PM left by the rear dock entrance.

Just as the guy who stood next to him on the steps remembers.

I don't think there is anything in what has been found posted by anyone that could rule that out.

Had Oswald stayed behind  they would have found it difficult to finger him for the shooting. They let the fox run before releasing the hounds.

Paul Francisco Paso at November 17, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Had Oswald stayed behind  they would have found it difficult to finger him for the shooting. They let the fox run before releasing the hounds.

Too true Paul.

It makes sense he was pushed to leave.

I still believe its possible that gentle nudge came from Buell Frazier in the form of an invitation to see a movie.

There was no work for the rest of the day for these two lads, so why not.

Paul Francisco Paso at November 17, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Had Oswald stayed behind  they would have found it difficult to finger him for the shooting. They let the fox run before releasing the hounds.

Mixing this with Mick's thread, Wes made sure the fox ran.

He was stitched up. Mick, both at the TSBD and at the TT. Oswald was tagged that day.

Beat me to it , Mick.

I am not sure if it was at Frazier's urging or not. When it comes to Oswald leaving the TSBD I am more inclined to believe Roger Craig's version of events simply because of why would he bother to make up such an intricate and very specific story if it didn't happen that way. Ruth Paine is up to her neck in this so it wouldn't surprise if it was her car as Oswald said to Fritz according to Craig. I also wouldn't be surprised if Frazier was the one who planted the Carcano. These Irving folk were a murky bunch. Even Wade thought so.

Paul Francisco Paso at November 17, 2015 at 7:28 PM

I am not sure if it was at Frazier's urging or not. When it comes to Oswald leaving the TSBD I am more inclined to believe Roger Craig's version of events simply because of why would he bother to make up such an intricate and very specific story if it didn't happen that way. Ruth Paine is up to her neck in this so it wouldn't surprise if it was her car as Oswald said to Fritz according to Craig. I also wouldn't be surprised if Frazier was the one who planted the Carcano. These Irving folk were a murky bunch. Even Wade thought so.

Yes, Graigs story is interesting. There seems to be other statements from witnesses whom may have observed a similar event.

And too true, why indeed would he make that story up.

I have pondered this for ages. I can't for the life of me come to believe Ruth was sitting there after the shooting waiting for Oswald to run down an embankment to the car. She was up to her neck in this but I have trouble believing it was her car that Craig observed. I know that makes no sense really - she was capable of doing something like that for sure....something doesn't sit right with me about that conclusion. Not sure exactly why,

Its more than possible too that Frazier bought in the "throwdown" Carcano.

The curtain rod / sack story from Frazier and Linnie Mae lends weight to that scenario IMO

Mick Purdy at November 18, 2015 at 6:21 PM

Paul Francisco Paso at November 17, 2015 at 7:28 PM

I am not sure if it was at Frazier's urging or not. When it comes to Oswald leaving the TSBD I am more inclined to believe Roger Craig's version of events simply because of why would he bother to make up such an intricate and very specific story if it didn't happen that way. Ruth Paine is up to her neck in this so it wouldn't surprise if it was her car as Oswald said to Fritz according to Craig. I also wouldn't be surprised if Frazier was the one who planted the Carcano. These Irving folk were a murky bunch. Even Wade thought so.

Yes, Graigs story is interesting. There seems to be other statements from witnesses whom may have observed a similar event.

And too true, why indeed would he make that story up.

I have pondered this for ages. I can't for the life of me come to believe Ruth was sitting there after the shooting waiting for Oswald to run down an embankment to the car. She was up to her neck in this but I have trouble believing it was her car that Craig observed. I know that makes no sense really - she was capable of doing something like that for sure....something doesn't sit right with me about that conclusion. Not sure exactly why,

Its more than possible too that Frazier bought in the "throwdown" Carcano.

The curtain rod / sack story from Frazier and Linnie Mae lends weight to that scenario IMO

Mick, I don't imagine Ruth herself picked Oswald up. Craig said he saw a dark complected driver of the so called Rambler. They might have borrowed her car. Maybe that's how Oswald got to work that day from Irving. Who knows. I also don't believe Frazier drove Oswald that day into work. Frazier might have taken Oswald to Irving the day before but after that who knows. This case is all messed up.