REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Yes, Ed, I agree. I came up with that one off the top of my head in as long as it took me to type it. Strike the classic mob move bit. It would play better as a "Kill the Patsy, so he can't talk" where the mob is concerned and "Kill the Killer" for his cop buddies and fame. Either way, it was just off the top of my head. I'll refrain from posting in that manner from now on.

We're all aware of PM's limitations, RevPink89. We're no strangers to that but I will say that spending too much time on them is a waste of time. If no one can prove PM is a stranger then why bother?

Got it. I won't waste any more of your time. Indeed, why bother? I was just trying to engage people on the possibility of it being a stranger for others who are far more knowledgeable about the issue than myself to elaborate on it. It has certainly helped me think it through, for what it's worth.

Regarding your argument that PM could be a non-TSBD worker, could you identify what flaw(s) you have found in the reasoning of Sean Murphy and others in this regard on the original Prayer Man thread in the Education Forum.

Could you also identify what flaw(s) of similar import you have found in my reasoning in my previous post on this thread and in the thread I linked to in that post.

Well, I have looked over the thread and the post and after a quick review, I don't see any flaws. Looks sound to me.

Paul Francisco Paso at August 31, 2015 at 4:48 AM

You're not wasting my time, Rev. I didn't mean to piss you off but strangers give me the heebie jebbies. PM should be all about Oswald cause that's who he looks like. He also fits the bill as Sean and others have proven. Anyone thinking PM cannot possibly be Oswald and maybe a stranger is wasting their own time. Why bother. The stranger alternative is a load of shit. Its like saying the image is blurry. Everyone who sees the image would know that already. PM is not just about the image. Talking about strangers is off topic as far as I am concerned if we want to find out who PM is. Let's see if PM is Oswald. That's what we really should be talking about when it comes to PM.

''The stranger alternative is a load of shit.''

So eloquently spoken Paul and so true.

Barto at August 31, 2015 at 6:18 AM

Paul Francisco Paso at August 31, 2015 at 4:48 AM

You're not wasting my time, Rev. I didn't mean to piss you off but strangers give me the heebie jebbies. PM should be all about Oswald cause that's who he looks like. He also fits the bill as Sean and others have proven. Anyone thinking PM cannot possibly be Oswald and maybe a stranger is wasting their own time. Why bother. The stranger alternative is a load of shit. Its like saying the image is blurry. Everyone who sees the image would know that already. PM is not just about the image. Talking about strangers is off topic as far as I am concerned if we want to find out who PM is. Let's see if PM is Oswald. That's what we really should be talking about when it comes to PM.

''The stranger alternative is a load of shit.''

So eloquently spoken Paul and so true.

A load of shit is a load of shit by any other name. PM as a stranger is a load of shit. I agree.

Great twitter link Barto! 

RevPink89,

Thank you for your reply to my questions and for acknowledging that you cannot identify any flaws in the case against PM being a stranger.

Paul, Barto and Jake,

I agree, as presumably does RevPink89 now, that PM as a stranger is a load of shit.

PM is a stranger.....it's not an answer, it's a cop out. To reach that conclusion is to completely ignore the total destruction of the 2nd floor lunchroom fable. For some, PM is LHO is a little too simple. Not deep enough, not complex enough. Tough shit, thats how it is......deal with it.

We do an injustice to Barto's work here talking of strangers. If you read very carefully what has been posted Rev, by Bart at the top of the thread, the inescapable conclusion in my mind is that PM is Oswald. Period. No photo required!  All the fine work which has culminated in reaching that conclusion has taken near on 7 years. It's only now when all that research has been presented in a brilliantly simple outline that it becomes so very clear who PM is. What the photo or frames of the front steps do for us is re enforce the research. We see in that corner in the shadows a man who looks like Lee, stands like Lee, hairline like Lee, and even has the cut of  his jib. If you watch the moving picture it would appear he is even conversing with the guy next to him. Why is it we have no problem accepting it's Wesley Frazier standing next to PM, because ...well, it looks like him but people seem reticent to accept the man next to BWF is Oswald. It makes little or no sense. The literature, and the Darnell frame has nailed it. Let there be no more talk of strangers. Barto's fantastic thread deserves that much.

Every time members here respond to comments like mine, the argument becomes more concise and more more easily understood by the layman. Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the purpose of allowing people like me admittance to a forum like this?

I think we would do well to remember that this was the reason Sean went searching for lion's dens to enter.

That can be balanced to some extent though by virtue of further inroads made which render aspects of it pretty well beyond dispute... and therefore also beyond the need for further testing.

Well done,Barto.Concise and to the point. Lone Nutters better start weeping.

Thx Beowulf and Vinny

Yes Beowulf the first day reports of course need to be factored in, but that will be all highlighted in my up and coming essay as it is too much just to cram into an introduction.

Barto at September 1, 2015 at 8:19 AM

Thx Beowolf and Vinny

Yes Beowolf the first day reports of course need to be factpored in, but that will be all highlighted in my up and coming essay as it is too much just to cram into an introduction.

Bart,

When do you think your essay will be ready for publication?

I need at least 4/6 weeks for V1

I'm not sure this is the proper thread, but is it anyone here who knows what happened to Sean Murphy? Wouldn't it be great if he wrote up his findings in an article and published it somewhere on the net?

He's a hero.

(Btw, great work Barto, can't wait to read your article.)

Hi Geronimo, welcome to ROKC and thanks for your kind words.

Sean Murphy's work is heavily represented in Stan Dane's up and coming book on Prayer Man, should be out soon.

Regarding my up and coming work I have used his work as the main pillar of the book, but  his referencing to docs etc wasn't that good so it meant that I had to re-research the whole thing as well and then some as the info is very cluttered. Great fun tho

Sean Murphy quit posting on Nov 22nd 2013 and has not been heard of at any JFK Assassination forum since.

My PM Book is in the very final stages. I anticipate it going to the publisher for review/processing in the next few days. The publishing process itself can take weeks. Considering we started this project in May, we've come a long way. This is all about Sean Murphy's work. We're getting there, folks. 

Thank you, Barto and Stan Dane, two exceptionally important publications. It's Oswald "out front" all right and time for spineless LN's to run for cover.

This is History in the making.

have to agree with Jean Davison about Carolyn Arnold who wrote elsewhere:

 “Carolyn Arnold’s sighting of Oswald in the lunchroom a few minutes before the motorcade…”

Arnold didn’t make this claim until 1978 and there’s reason to doubt her memory. Other employees were in the 2nd-floor lunchroom during the lunch hour and didn’t see Oswald there — Pauline Sanders and Mrs. Reid, e.g.:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11104&relPageId=82&search=“pauline_sanders”;AND lunchroom

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39&relPageId=279&search=“left_thelunchroom”;

Fritz and others present during Oswald’s questioning said that he claimed he ate in the 1st-floor domino room, not on the 2nd floor.

My reason for believing Arnold's memory is wrong is that in 1978, she had Oswald SITTING in the second floor lunchroom. I have to wonder if that "memory' was not perhaps influenced by seeing one of the newspaper accounts where Oswald was supposedly sitting up in that eating area?

Arnold made two statements to the FBI - in the first on Nov 26, 63

she was in her office on the second floor of the building on November 22, 1963, and left that office between 12:00 and 12:15 PM, to go downstairs and stand in front of the building to view the Presidential Motorcade. As she was standing in front of the building, she stated she thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of LEE HARVEY OSWALD standing in the hallway between the front door and the double doors leading to the warehouse, located on the first floor. She could not be sure that this was OSWALD, but said she felt it was and believed the time to be a few minutes before 12:15 PM.

In the second FBI report, she is only asked if she saw Oswald during the assassination, so her actual sighting of him before then is not mentioned. What she said in this statement from Mar 18, 1964 has caused some issues over timing.

I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date.

So in one statement she says she left for lunch between between noon and 12:15.... in the other she says she left the TSBD at 12:25.unfortunately she wasn't called to give testimony where this may have been cleared up.

I think a mystery has been created where there is none.

She left the office to watch the motorcade between noon and 12:15 and caught a glimpse of Oswald in the first floor vestibule shortly thereafter. Her second statement has simply been written in a confusing manner. What she was really saying here was that she left work and went home at 12:25 - the time some in that building knew the motorcade was due but never realized it had ended up running late. Her 12:25 simply time-stamps her belief that the assassination occurred at that time. Her leaving for home without delay after that is supported by the fact that her name is absent from Revill's employee lists.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/29/2949-001.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/29/2949-002.gif

Her REAL sighting of Oswald sometime around 12:15 pm in the first floor vestibule fits with PM and I also believe it exonerates Oswald since witnesses saw someone up in that 6th floor window at at time. In any case, Oswald on the first floor with only 15 minutes before the motorcade is cutting it very very fine and makes him THE coolest and most nonchalant assassin in history.

Stan Dane at September 3, 2015 at 6:21 PM

My PM Book is in the very final stages. I anticipate it going to the publisher for review/processing in the next few days. The publishing process itself can take weeks. Considering we started this project in May, we've come a long way. This is all about Sean Murphy's work. We're getting there, folks. 

Look forward to reading it, Stan. 

RevPink89 at August 31, 2015 at 2:39 AM

Yes, Ed, I agree. I came up with that one off the top of my head in as long as it took me to type it. Strike the classic mob move bit. It would play better as a "Kill the Patsy, so he can't talk" where the mob is concerned and "Kill the Killer" for his cop buddies and fame. Either way, it was just off the top of my head. I'll refrain from posting in that manner from now on.

 

 

We're all aware of PM's limitations, RevPink89. We're no strangers to that but I will say that spending too much time on them is a waste of time. If no one can prove PM is a stranger then why bother?

 

 

Got it. I won't waste any more of your time. Indeed, why bother? I was just trying to engage people on the possibility of it being a stranger for others who are far more knowledgeable about the issue than myself to elaborate on it. It has certainly helped me think it through, for what it's worth.

Regarding your argument that PM could be a non-TSBD worker, could you identify what flaw(s) you have found in the reasoning of Sean Murphy and others in this regard on the original Prayer Man thread in the Education Forum.

 

Could you also identify what flaw(s) of similar import you have found in my reasoning in my previous post on this thread and in the thread I linked to in that post.

Well, I have looked over the thread and the post and after a quick review, I don't see any flaws. Looks sound to me.

No worries Rev, thanks.
Kill the Patsy works much better (as long as the Patsy is not working with/for the mob or the cops.)