REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Lee, yes it is my impression that the individual is facing the camera.

I would say he is doing both the gif shows this.

I am not good with slomo gifs but if it is slowed down then you see he is looking backwards as well.

It could be so Barto. I certainly would never bet much on it either way.

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

Sure is m8.

Jake at December 29, 2015 at 2:44 PM

Something to keep in mind about plaid shirts. In looking at photos of people and clothing, it appears that if one was a male in the gainfully employed, hourly wage category (so not wearing a suit), then there was a very good chance of wearing a plaid shirt that day in Texas. Here is a representative example. Note the two guys at center and the collar on the kid in the foreground. It was the fashion fwiw:

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 3:30 PM

I would say he is doing both the gif shows this.

I am not good with slomo gifs but if it is slowed down then you see he is looking backwards as well.

Can you provide a frame of him where you believe he looking backwards, please?

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

It's not as good as the Weigman footage that shows the same guy on the same steps but it's good enough for me to see Billy Nolan Lovelady stood where he was stood during the parade in both Altgens-6 and Weigman...

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 4:27 PM

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

It's not as good as the Weigman footage that shows the same guy on the same steps but it's good enough for me to see Billy Nolan Lovelady stood where he was stood during the parade in both Altgens-6 and Weigman...

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 7:10 AM

I can still see a fant outline of Shelley's head, this print and the one you used are from the Mary Ferrell site iin the HSCA section

Bart, this is what I found on the timeline of Altgens6 picture, and article by Rivera and Schaeffer in VT:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/05/01/jfk-the-james-ike-altgens-photo-timeline/ .

I have not studied all the details of Altgens6 history as these two authors did and therefore, I am inclined to believe them and can accept the possibility that there was indeed enough possibilities to alter Altgens6 before wiring it.

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 4:22 PM

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 3:30 PM

I would say he is doing both the gif shows this.

I am not good with slomo gifs but if it is slowed down then you see he is looking backwards as well.

Can you provide a frame of him where you believe he looking backwards, please?

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/vinny2015/media/prayer-man_e_zpsqu5srqss.jpg.html

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 6:01 AM

Barto at December 27, 2015 at 3:12 AM

With Shelly out front because he was a supervisor, yes Paul 100 percent correct, makes total sense.

I also agree with Ed that Shelly is suited in Altgens 6. And the guy in the shirt above Williams is Molina. I think it is their position that gives it away. I don't see the point of Shelly standing that far away from Lovelady in the first place, and Williams and Molina worked together in the accounting dept. so it makes all the more sense for them to stand tgether as well.

Groden made a mistake w this and switched Molina and Shelley.

Note the Carl Edward Jones annotation is wrong by me and is actually Roy Edward Lewis.

If you go to my link at the web post I made http://www.prayer-man.com/billy-nolan-lovelady-and-bill-shelly-did-leave-the-steps-almost-immediately-after-the-shots-were-fired/ ;, there is something I discovered just before I went to sleep, It dawned on me and I could not get to sleep for a while.

Lovelady's FBI statement and Shelly's DPD statement on Nov 22nd both make a mention of them leaving almost immediately and going down there, BUT they also mention they went back after!!! There is absolutely no word on them going to the rail road yard.!!!

So to me it goes as follows: they both buggered off as seen in Couch, but they did not stay out THAT long, since Vicky Adams saw them again at the TSBD.

The time they spent out there cannot have been more than a couple of mins. They just ended up strecthing it to give Vicky's testimony a shafting.

I'm getting more and more confused here.  I'll admit I don't have the time to read everything that has been written on all the forums concerning this but can we get one thing straight?

Are we in agreement that the person wearing black suit and tie in Altgens-6 has a 50/50 chance of being William Shelley or are we saying because the "William Shelley" figure in Couch is wearing what could be a suit jacket that the figure in Altgens-6 is NOT William Shelley?

As far as not believing that it is Lovelady in Couch - - it is because I sincerley believe that the person in the Darnell segment (above) is Billy Lovelady. 

Agreed Lee, that 'guy' is in the Lovelady location.
That guy is facing the camera and trying to look over the ladies approaching the steps.

He does have a Lovelady appearance Lee.

I know Bart had him as white haired dude but now it seems that is skin tone of a face.

What we could do with a 4K scan is mind boggling! All this sh-t would be settled.



The Lovelady Peek?

Ed Ledoux at December 30, 2015 at 12:26 AM

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 6:01 AM

Barto at December 27, 2015 at 3:12 AM

With Shelly out front because he was a supervisor, yes Paul 100 percent correct, makes total sense.

I also agree with Ed that Shelly is suited in Altgens 6. And the guy in the shirt above Williams is Molina. I think it is their position that gives it away. I don't see the point of Shelly standing that far away from Lovelady in the first place, and Williams and Molina worked together in the accounting dept. so it makes all the more sense for them to stand tgether as well.

Groden made a mistake w this and switched Molina and Shelley.

Note the Carl Edward Jones annotation is wrong by me and is actually Roy Edward Lewis.

If you go to my link at the web post I made http://www.prayer-man.com/billy-nolan-lovelady-and-bill-shelly-did-leave-the-steps-almost-immediately-after-the-shots-were-fired/ ;, there is something I discovered just before I went to sleep, It dawned on me and I could not get to sleep for a while.

Lovelady's FBI statement and Shelly's DPD statement on Nov 22nd both make a mention of them leaving almost immediately and going down there, BUT they also mention they went back after!!! There is absolutely no word on them going to the rail road yard.!!!

So to me it goes as follows: they both buggered off as seen in Couch, but they did not stay out THAT long, since Vicky Adams saw them again at the TSBD.

The time they spent out there cannot have been more than a couple of mins. They just ended up strecthing it to give Vicky's testimony a shafting.

I'm getting more and more confused here.  I'll admit I don't have the time to read everything that has been written on all the forums concerning this but can we get one thing straight?

Are we in agreement that the person wearing black suit and tie in Altgens-6 has a 50/50 chance of being William Shelley or are we saying because the "William Shelley" figure in Couch is wearing what could be a suit jacket that the figure in Altgens-6 is NOT William Shelley?

As far as not believing that it is Lovelady in Couch - - it is because I sincerley believe that the person in the Darnell segment (above) is Billy Lovelady. 

Agreed Lee, that 'guy' is in the Lovelady location.
That guy is facing the camera and trying to look over the ladies approaching the steps.

He does have a Lovelady appearance Lee.

I know Bart had him as white haired dude but now it seems that is skin tone of a face.

What we could do with a 4K scan is mind boggling! All this sh-t would be settled.



The Lovelady Peek?

I agree a better scan would be a big help! However, given what we've got at this point, i agree with Barto (for the most part),  not Lee. I think Gerda's gif is a million times better quality than frames with this figure on the steps below PM. I think it's is a woman - not a "dude" going up the steps then turning so we can see the side of her face. It looks like has blonde or white hair and a pageboy style haircut (maybe a scarf but it looks more like a haircut in blowups). And if it's a haircut i'm guessing it's a young woman - not an old lady with white hair - since that style was not in for old lady's back then. 

Also... someone...i think in this thread (or maybe another one in which "blondie" was being discussed), someone argued that "blondie" was stationary on the steps while the the other women were moving up the steps. And as i recall they were using that argument as supporting evidence that it was Lovelady standing there and not one of the ladies going up the steps to enter the bldg. But...as we can see in the anim gif you just posted, Lee (thank you), we can see that is incorrect - she is going up the steps with the other ladies.

Also, in this enhanced Darnell gif posted in another thread by Vinny, we can see "blondie" has on a dark top with short sleeves and you can see a bit of her arm below the sleeve. Lovelady did not have on a solid colored shirt and did not have his long sleeves rolled way up above his elbows.



The only person so far i've found that sort of fits this description is Jane Berry - who was, very near and sl. west of the the front steps in the Wiegman panorama of the Truly group with her co-worker, Betty Jean Thornton. She has med-short blonde hair and is wearing a short sleeved solid colored med-dark dress. Lovelady had on a plaid long sleeved shirt. The shirt or dress "blondie" is wearing is not plaid but solid colored....And did i mention short sleeved? 

One other thing i JUST noticed about "Blondie" (or Lee's "Lovelady" candidate) - and i think this may be important! 

In the enhanced photos of "Blondie" turned sideways that Vinny made - every one of them - notice how her neck is set back to the (our) left under the center of her head - giving her the appearance of having a thin neck - rather than a big thick neck.  If that was Lovelady's head facing us as is being contended,  rather than a woman turned sideways, then that would mean the (anatomical) left side of "his" neck would be coming up and entering the CENTER of his head! Obviously not physically possible!

So the neck is set too far over to our left to be Lovelady's neck. Do you see what i'm trying to say? 

The gif Lee posted does show a person with arms bent in front, peeking over the ladies.
That rules out a persons back. or even turning around. There is nothing happening other than the figure steps up one step to see over the crowd. Simple, no gymnastics or whipping around, which we do not see.

I do not see Janes hair on that figure.
I do see a head, but with no curly poof hair like Jane.
Simply look at others on the steps not wearing head scarfs, we can see their hair. Not so with this one.

Not Berry IMO.

It's the same person whom was standing there a split second before, and wouldn't Lovelady would be that person.

Please post Gerdas gif.

Paul Francisco Paso at December 29, 2015 at 4:49 PM

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 4:27 PM

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

It's not as good as the Weigman footage that shows the same guy on the same steps but it's good enough for me to see Billy Nolan Lovelady stood where he was stood during the parade in both Altgens-6 and Weigman...

Lee, in Weigman, Lovelady is not stood in the same position as you claim Lovelady is in Darnell or have I misunderstood something?

No, Paul.  I knew once I posted it that it would possibly be taken literally.  I should have said he is in the general vicinity of where he was stood watching the parade in Weigman and Altgens-6.  He obviously moved a few feet here and there between pictures/movies and changed steps but, and I cannot express how confident I am here, the same guy is on the same "steps" in all of the photos and pictures.  

Why we are discussing a "blondie" is quite simply beyond me to think rationally right now.  I feel like I've gone back in time to Cinque Island where I once spent an entire summer being introduced to mythical creatures.

Lee Farley at December 30, 2015 at 4:08 AM

Paul Francisco Paso at December 29, 2015 at 4:49 PM

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 4:27 PM

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

It's not as good as the Weigman footage that shows the same guy on the same steps but it's good enough for me to see Billy Nolan Lovelady stood where he was stood during the parade in both Altgens-6 and Weigman...

Lee, in Weigman, Lovelady is not stood in the same position as you claim Lovelady is in Darnell or have I misunderstood something?

No, Paul.  I knew once I posted it that it would possibly be taken literally.  I should have said he is in the general vicinity of where he was stood watching the parade in Weigman and Altgens-6.  He obviously moved a few feet here and there between pictures/movies and changed steps but, and I cannot express how confident I am here, the same guy is on the same "steps" in all of the photos and pictures.  

Why we are discussing a "blondie" is quite simply beyond me to think rationally right now.  I feel like I've gone back in time to Cinque Island where I once spent an entire summer being introduced to mythical creatures.

Lee its all part of the process, 
Seriously though can you see a checked shirt?
It is the same location "generally" that Lovelady was in that this person is standing. (give or take a step or two)

Lee Farley at December 30, 2015 at 4:08 AM

Paul Francisco Paso at December 29, 2015 at 4:49 PM

Lee Farley at December 29, 2015 at 4:27 PM

Barto at December 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM

yeah the quality is just crap isn't it?

It's not as good as the Weigman footage that shows the same guy on the same steps but it's good enough for me to see Billy Nolan Lovelady stood where he was stood during the parade in both Altgens-6 and Weigman...

Lee, in Weigman, Lovelady is not stood in the same position as you claim Lovelady is in Darnell or have I misunderstood something?

No, Paul.  I knew once I posted it that it would possibly be taken literally.  I should have said he is in the general vicinity of where he was stood watching the parade in Weigman and Altgens-6.  He obviously moved a few feet here and there between pictures/movies and changed steps but, and I cannot express how confident I am here, the same guy is on the same "steps" in all of the photos and pictures.  

Why we are discussing a "blondie" is quite simply beyond me to think rationally right now.  I feel like I've gone back in time to Cinque Island where I once spent an entire summer being introduced to mythical creatures.

Cinque land - wow! It may not be Jane Berry -  i said she was the only one I've found who "sort of" looked like the person in Vinny's gifs. And if it's Lovelady explain how we see the left side of his neck entering in the midline of his head? I don't get it. You're entitled to your opinion - but  If anyone is in Cinque land it's not me.  Did i say YOU were in "Cinque land"?  I disagree with you on this but I'm trying to offer logical reasons it can't be Lovelady -  i don't appreciate being painted with the "Cinque brush" like i'm some whacko! 

That is a shadow from his head on one side of his neck.