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Forum Home > JFK > Ignoring Prayer Man while Stuck in a Fifty-Year-Old Box

Colin Crow
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Posts: 262

Stan Dane at April 2, 2015 at 12:01 AM

I believe PM is totally in the shadows. However, I don't necessarily believe the bright spot has to be a light source. For it to standout, it doesn't have to be reflecting direct sunlight. It reflects the surrounding, diffused ambient light from outside.

 

If PM or anybody standing there was holding a small mirror aimed out toward you on the street, you would see the light outside reflected back toward where you were (Wiegman with camera, in this case).

 

For example, the front entryway of my home faces south. The front door is recessed back about 10-12 feet and is deep in the shadows. There's a small window on the front door that's primarily shiny translucent glass. When viewing the entryway from the street, that window always stands out from the shadowy surroundings. It's simply reflecting indirect, diffused light coming in from the street.

 

I think this is what's happening in the PM pictures. Indirect light makes its way into the tunnel-like entryway, and certain objects, such as glass bottles, camera lenses, flash attachments, or watches reflect it back more easily, making those objects stand out and appear lighter. Or if conditions are exactly right, even a light source.

 

What if a flash was attached? Even if not emitting light would it reflect as you described?

http://www.copweb.be/Imperial_Camera.htm

April 2, 2015 at 4:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Stan Dane
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Posts: 1239

I'm generalizing here, but I think it's possible if the surfaces were shiny/reflective and pointed toward Wiegman. And if PM did have a camera, I'd think he would have it pointed directly at the Wiegman, otherwise why have a camera if you weren't going to take pictures of the passing motorcade? I for one think that PM's position was ideal for taking pictures of the motorcade because there was nothing obstructing PM's view as the motorcade approached and made the turn on Elm. If you could clearly see PM from Wiegman's point of view, flip that 180 degrees and PM had a clear view of the motorcade.

April 2, 2015 at 4:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

Plus the fact that PM was entirely in the shade. Which could be a factor when taking photos.


We need better resolution but after seeing that darkening of the vestibule in Towner... Unless that was a second generation print?

April 2, 2015 at 4:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Oswald's alleged possessions from Paine's garage included the Stereo Realist camera (that takes 3d pictures) and a Cuera-2 camera.  


Also found was a flash attachment for an Ansco camera.  No Ansco camera was found.  The Imperial Reflex Duo was "found" by Ruth Paine and passed to Robert Oswald who kept hold of it for two months before handing it over to the FBI.


So he had a camera (Imperial Duo) that should have come with a flash attachment but no flash was found. 


He had a flash attachment (Ansco) but no camera.


He had the Stereo Realist that can have a flash attached but none found.


The less said about the Minox - - the better.


FWIW: the Cuera-2 camera's flash attachment (if youhad one) went into the top of the camera.  

April 2, 2015 at 4:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

Lee, just looking at the guy and his collection I would think he would have a flash for the Reflex. Remember it was overcast and drizzling that morning. Also Oswald had no way of knowing what time the motorcade would pass until late morning. Wouldn't you take your flash, just in case?

April 2, 2015 at 4:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Yes.  Yes I would, Colin.  We've often wondered about the shell game over the cameras.  Much has been written concerning it being related to the BYP's.


I think the shell game was about something else.  Something more incredible.  I asked this question in 2013.  What if the accused assassin took photographs of the mototcade as it passed the TSBD?


Maybe he did "shoot" the President.

April 2, 2015 at 5:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921


Cuera-2 taken from Paine residence (top)

Stereo Realist with flash attachment (bottom).  The Stereo Realist was ultimately claimed by Ruth Paine.  She said it was hers.
April 2, 2015 at 5:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

I think the Stereo Realist is too large. From the tryptich that Tony posted, the two on the right looks like he is holding something dark, relatively square, with the shiny portion in the upper left quadrant/corner.


Doesn't sound like the Imperial. Maybe the Cuera?

April 2, 2015 at 5:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

Well if it was a camera, one would think PM got some good shots. Strange they are not in the public domain like so many others.

April 2, 2015 at 5:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

Have ANY photos come to light that could have been taken from the front door of the TSBD?


Maybe someone has seen the pictures and not realized their provenance.

April 2, 2015 at 5:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Terry,

Nope.

Lee

April 2, 2015 at 5:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

Lee Farley at April 2, 2015 at 5:28 AM

Terry,

Nope.

Lee

Yeah, that would be a little too easy, huh?


[::sigh:: back to the drawing board]

April 2, 2015 at 6:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

Colin, spot on.  If PM is taking pictures then the reason the pictures aren't in the record is because PM was Oswald.  If it was anyone else we would have seen the photographs.


The same logic that Goban followed when BWF refused to identify PM.  If it was anyone else then BWF would have said so.  His non-idenfitication of PM is confirmation that is was Oswald.


Everything we have uncovered.  Everything we have seen in the photos.  The dodgy black overlays on that doorway in Towner.  The testimony of Baker, Campbell, Truly and the supporting cast.  The FBI's concern over Altgens-6.  Everything points to the figure being Lee Harvey Oswald.


No one else.

April 2, 2015 at 6:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

Lee Farley at April 2, 2015 at 6:39 AM

Colin, spot on.  If PM is taking pictures then the reason the pictures aren't in the record is because PM was Oswald.  If it was anyone else we would have seen the photographs.


The same logic that Goban followed when BWF refused to identify PM.  If it was anyone else then BWF would have said so.  His non-idenfitication of PM is confirmation that is was Oswald.

That's an absolutely brilliant deduction, Lee.


How non-Cube thinking!! You know, simply waiting for evidence to drop in your lap... rather than, y'know, using some mental faculties...

April 2, 2015 at 6:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1106

PM does look as if he is standing there winding the film to the end of the roll.

April 2, 2015 at 10:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

Whoever PM is he is virtually fixed to the spot except for some arm movement. In shock and has no interest in looking around the corner after the shots are heard.....almost like....holy shit....a rabbit in the headlights.

April 2, 2015 at 10:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ray Mitcham
Member
Posts: 44

Terry Martin at April 2, 2015 at 5:16 AM

I think the Stereo Realist is too large. From the tryptich that Tony posted, the two on the right looks like he is holding something dark, relatively square, with the shiny portion in the upper left quadrant/corner.


Doesn't sound like the Imperial. Maybe the Cuera?

Couldn't be the Imperial, Terry, as that model is held at waist level to view down into the viewfinder. Looks as though the camera he is holding is just before or just after being held at eye level. (If it is a camera, which is what it looks like.)

April 2, 2015 at 11:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1106

Info about Smena 2 (Cuera 2)
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-255402683

Good luck finding the flash for a Cuera2.
I was looking for it to see its efffective range for the flash.
IMO it would be useless for the picture we see PM taking of the motorcade.
If he was taking a picture of those on the steps it would be useful in lighting their backsides...

April 2, 2015 at 11:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Watch through this to 7 minutes!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-leVbMe00

April 2, 2015 at 11:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

Ray Mitcham at April 2, 2015 at 11:01 AM

Terry Martin at April 2, 2015 at 5:16 AM

I think the Stereo Realist is too large. From the tryptich that Tony posted, the two on the right looks like he is holding something dark, relatively square, with the shiny portion in the upper left quadrant/corner.


Doesn't sound like the Imperial. Maybe the Cuera?

Couldn't be the Imperial, Terry, as that model is held at waist level to view down into the viewfinder. Looks as though the camera he is holding is just before or just after being held at eye level. (If it is a camera, which is what it looks like.)

Ray,


Whilst I agree with you that it does look in the frames like PM is holding a camera up higher than his waist I do not agree that he had to hold the Imperial Reflex at his waist to take a photo.  Whilst this is how one technically operates the camera one does not have to look through the viewfinder any more than I have to look at the screen of my camera phone to take a photo.  Nor did I have to look through a viewfinder of a camcorder to film when they were the height of technology.  


You could, should you so wish, hold this camera out at arms length and take a picture at the cost of focus and framing.  But we do not know what anyone looking through the viewfinder would see if you moved it further up your body toward your chin and tilted your head down.


The problem we have is that the inventory records concerning his alleged possession is dodgy as hell.  The testimony concerning ownership of the cameras is dodgy as hell.  The only thing we do know is PM looks like Oswald and he holding what could be a camera.

April 2, 2015 at 11:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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