REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Linda posted this and it makes my point perfectly.
Lewis has to qualify his statement about standing in the Vestibule and Oswald not standing with him at the time the shots were fired.
Of course, by then Oswald had stepped out into the corner.

Can we get the view FROM PM's position please.

Here's a SWAG at a view from PM's position using the only picture I know that looks out of the TSBD entrance from the inside. The other TSBD entrance image showed the little nook one step down where the pop bottle was found, so I stuck PM there for reference. I did my best guess placement of BWF from Darnell, and using a height of 74 inches for BWF and 69 inches for LHO – and subtracting another 7 inches for PM standing one step below the landing – I ratioed the size of the figures accordingly. Again, just a rough SWAG.

Ed Ledoux at December 9, 2015 at 12:15 AM

Linda posted this and it makes my point perfectly.
Lewis has to qualify his statement about standing in the Vestibule and Oswald not standing with him at the time the shots were fired.
Of course, by then Oswald had stepped out into the corner.

Can we get the view FROM PM's position please.

This is according Hoover's set of 6 questions for all TSBD employees.

One of the questions was whether they saw LHO at that time.

This matter was tabled by Weisberg many moons ago about the idiocy of asking a  question about LHO whereabouts with that "at that time" added on

Barto at December 9, 2015 at 3:07 AM

Ed Ledoux at December 9, 2015 at 12:15 AM

Linda posted this and it makes my point perfectly.
Lewis has to qualify his statement about standing in the Vestibule and Oswald not standing with him at the time the shots were fired.
Of course, by then Oswald had stepped out into the corner.

Can we get the view FROM PM's position please.

This is according Hoover's set of 6 questions for all TSBD employees.

One of the questions was whether they saw LHO at that time.

This matter was tabled by Weisberg many moons ago about the idiocy of asking a  question about LHO whereabouts with that "at that time" added on

What is odd is his interview with Larry Sneed in the book No more Silence.

Page 84-89.

does he seem to infer his location at the time of the shooting as inside the door? Not outside?

Due to my lack of excitement, I was one of the last ones out of the building before the motorcade arrived. That’s why I wasn’t outside near the street like most everybody else. Instead, when I came out, I was standing with some ladies from up in the offices right in the middle of the steps in front of the building that led to the sidewalk beyond the glass door. As the motorcade came by, I remember seeing K ennedy brushing his hair back. That’s when all hell broke loose! I heard BOOM! ... BOOM! ... BOOM! with the second and t hird shots being close together. The people down in front of me hit the ground then everybody started running toward the grassy knoll.

ROY E  LEWIS EYEWITNESS 81

Apparently the people assumed that whoever was doing the shooting might have been over there so I followed them. But before we could get far, a policeman stopped us and told us to go back into the building and wait. They came in and interviewed everybody and told us not to go back out anymore after that. I don’t know if he did it on his own or for the police, but I do remember Truly calling off the names of everybody from a list that worked there. That was on the first floor where a few of us were gathered. But since we could come and go at lunch, you could do whatever you wanted as long as you were back in time. So not everyone was there. The day of the assassination I don’t recall seeing Oswald. If I did, it would have been early that morning; afterwards, I didn’t see him at all. 

It certainly seems  slightly more ambiguous than his 03/18/64 FBI statement regarding his location at the time of the shots.

ROY EDWARD LEWIS EYEWITNESS

Due to my lack of excitement, I was one of the last ones out of the building before the motorcade arrived. That’s why I wasn’t outside near the street like most everybody else. Instead, when I came out, I was standing with some ladies from up in the offices right in the middle of the steps in front of the building that led to the sidewalk beyond the glass door. As the motorcade came by, I remember seeing Kennedy brushing his hair back. That’s when all hell broke loose! I heard BOOM! ... BOOM! ... BOOM! with the second and third shots being close together. The people down in front of me hit the ground then everybody started running toward the grassy knoll. Apparently the people assumed that whoever was doing the shooting might have been over there so I followed them. But before we could get far, a policeman stopped us and told us to go back into the building and wait. They came in and interviewed everybody and told us not to go back out anymore after that. But since we could come and go at lunch, you could do whatever you wanted as long as you were back in time. I don’t know if he did it on his own or for the police, but I do remember Truly calling off the names of everybody from a list that worked there. That was on the first floor where a few of us were gathered. So not everyone was there. The day of the assassination I don’t recall seeing Oswald. If I did, it would have been early that morning; afterwards, I didn’t see him at all.

Roy is saying he was one? of the last out (was PM the other), but places himself inside, so he then says he was in the middle of the steps with some ladies but names none.
Hmm he is not being forthcoming about whom he was with and where he was.
He does recall Truly calling names from a list, would that be the list recently put together by the DPD, and Truly can't use that PA system huh? 

Ed Ledoux at December 11, 2015 at 7:24 PM

ROY EDWARD LEWIS EYEWITNESS

Due to my lack of excitement, I was one of the last ones out of the building before the motorcade arrived. That’s why I wasn’t outside near the street like most everybody else. Instead, when I came out, I was standing with some ladies from up in the offices right in the middle of the steps in front of the building that led to the sidewalk beyond the glass door. As the motorcade came by, I remember seeing Kennedy brushing his hair back. That’s when all hell broke loose! I heard BOOM! ... BOOM! ... BOOM! with the second and third shots being close together. The people down in front of me hit the ground then everybody started running toward the grassy knoll. Apparently the people assumed that whoever was doing the shooting might have been over there so I followed them. But before we could get far, a policeman stopped us and told us to go back into the building and wait. They came in and interviewed everybody and told us not to go back out anymore after that. But since we could come and go at lunch, you could do whatever you wanted as long as you were back in time. I don’t know if he did it on his own or for the police, but I do remember Truly calling off the names of everybody from a list that worked there. That was on the first floor where a few of us were gathered. So not everyone was there. The day of the assassination I don’t recall seeing Oswald. If I did, it would have been early that morning; afterwards, I didn’t see him at all.

Roy is saying he was one? of the last out (was PM the other), but places himself inside, so he then says he was in the middle of the steps with some ladies but names none.
Hmm he is not being forthcoming about whom he was with and where he was.
He does recall Truly calling names from a list, would that be the list recently put together by the DPD, and Truly can't use that PA system huh? 

Apparently the people assumed that whoever was doing the shooting might have been over there so I followed them. But before we could get far, a policeman stopped us and told us to go back into the building and wait.

Buell wasn't interested enough, all he could think of was lunch in the basement. 

From Piper Williams and Givens:

Mick Purdy at December 12, 2015 at 2:51 PM

Great work as usual mate. It is fascinating isn't it, when you get stuck into the nuts and bolts of the movements of certain individuals how clear it becomes of the shenanigans which followed. Makes me very suspicious of Dougherty indeed. I have a very stong feeling he was up to his eyeballs in the planting of the throw-downs and possibly even more. Pure speculation of course but there's enough here to make a case for that conclusion IMO. Now who is the man in that white shirt

Greg:

Yeah, I think there are only 3 possibilities for the person met on the 4th floor - the real shooter, Dougherty, or no one at all.

I've been reading up on police interrogation methods and witness interviews and have a much deeper understanding of what the cops did and how they did it now as far as the frame goes. It makes me sick, but even more determined that this case needs to be reopened as a normal cold case with proven cold case procedures and protocols and run by people withouut a dog in the fight.

One thing I will say. I now believe 100% that Frazier was threatened as a co-conspirator. I did have some doubt before, but not now.

However, that does not explain (away) everything to do with Frazier. He did not capilulate on the bag size despite the threats, yet claims now that the reason he never mentioned seeing Oswald leaving 10 minutes after the assassination from behind the building was that he was too afraid too. The fact is that early on in the piece, they hadn't put the case together, so telling them about it was not putting himself in danger at all. At that time, it was nuetral information. We even have Curry telling the media that Oswald was seen leaving in a car and they were looking for the driver - so if anything - Frazier's info fit with what they had. Hell, they were still looking at a commie conspiracy at that stage. The bag size was what he should have capilulated on if he was scared...

--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights

http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker

December 12, 2015 at 3:52 PM

I'm more inclined to go with Baker on the 4th floor encounter, from memory its from his first day statement. Well before the musical chairs were in play. If thats true then that's the guy walking away from the stairs on the 4th in the tan jacket or something similar. And that means white/light shirtman is either JD or another stranger in the building. No?

So yes 3 possibilities for the 4th floor.

Greg:

One thing I will say. I now believe 100% that Frazier was threatened as a co-conspirator. I did have some doubt before, but not now.

Mick:

I think this would go a long way in explaining why I believe Frazier took Oswald to the Texas theater after the shots were fired. Think about that for a moment. It makes sense. He would have been targeted as the getaway man, if your hunch is right, he was being accused of aiding the assassin. Remember Wesley lied about his whereabouts after the event. Why? His lies are not misremembering. Think about all the various versions he's told us over the journey of what he did immediately following the assassination and the departure from the TSBD. He is absolutely unaccounted for approximately 3-5 hours and has lied about what he did do during these unaccounted hours. Why?

And remember this too, and I may have my detractors on this, but if you do not believe in the paper bag story told by Wesley and Linnie Mae (the only two persons to see the bag) then it goes without saying Lee was set-up by Wes and Linnie, and it means something else too.

It certainly means Linnie Mae had foreknowledge of that sack, and in particular the sack which would be discovered in at the TSBD.

Putting these things together to my mind creates a powerful case for their involvement in some way in the framing of LHO.

So yes, if Wesley was really accused by the DPD it still fits with the above IMHO.

Having said all that, one has to ask why it was that Frazier was called back after being released by the DPD supposedly to take the lie detector test at 9.00pm. No matter we know he was called back. It's what happened in those 3 hours that is of much interest to my mind.

And about sometime after midnight 3 hours or so later he is released unconditionally, It strikes me as odd.

Remember this too he was arrested, the place he was residing was searched and some of his belongings were taken into custody.

No matter what anyone believes or makes of all this Wesley Frazier has some explaining to do, thats for certain IMHO.

If there's no sack, no walk through the carpark with Oswald, and no account for his whereabouts after the shots, then IMO he should be quizzed.

It simply is no longer good enough for him to say there was a sack, or he was with Oswald in the carpark and nowhere good enough to simply say I don't remember where I was after the shots.

Assuming there is no sack then for me thats the proof of Wes and Linnie's involvement. I absolutely agree he was intimidated, but this is where I may differ from what the ret of the gang think.

I believe 100% that Frazier and Linnie Mae set Oswald up, I have read their statements, testimonies and interviews from over the years to death, and they smell rotten to the core.

PM and Frazier in my mind cuts to the core of the Frazier paradigm. He is less than 4-5 feet away from PM is not blind sided by anything or anyone just after the biggest event in his life occurred. To say he can't remember whom PM is is an insult to all rational minded people. Logic dictates he knows, and by extension his refusal to tell us who PM is can only be taken IMO as proof he does know who the person was. The fact he has not nominated a stranger or anybody else other than Oswald is of itself a dead give away to my mind.

So yes he was given a going over to be sure, but with good reason IMO, he was involved in some way. But perhaps by midnight or just a little afterward as they were interogating Frazier the word had come through that Oswald had been charged on both counts and he was "our man" and acted alone without accomplices.....

Wesley Frazier was a lucky man that night in my opinion, and he knows that even today.

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 991

Goban Saor at December 14, 2015 at 7:13 AM

Barto at December 14, 2015 at 4:56 AM

Goban Saor at December 14, 2015 at 3:59 AM

Barto at December 14, 2015 at 3:04 AM

Like Richard "Gumshoe" Gilbride, Lee Kania talks bollox and his utter rubbish beliefs that the 2nd floor lunch room encounter actually happened. He joins the Albert "Dean Man" Doyle's que......

And where is the tape / transcript of that BWF interview, if there is none of that then there was no interview..........................

It's nice to see that a few posters at that place are actually taking care of that 2nd floor mess once and for all.

Have you missed the point I’ve been making, Barto?

Why should a man holding a royal flush worry about an opponent holding a pair of twos?

It doesn’t matter that Frazier has claimed he didn’t see Oswald on the steps. That claim is rendered meaningless by the demonstrably incredible claim that he didn’t see PM.

The latter claim is our royal flush but nobody seems to be interested.

Owww Goban, I did go on the piss last night and had several sleeps today but I did not miss your point since I have mentioned this before myself as well. The Darnell film clearly shows PM and BWF interacting. I was merely responding to the screen shot.

Oops, sorry, Barto. If I knew the fragility of your condition I would have been less "robust".

Yes, nobody can reasonably deny that Frazier saw PM. Therefore, Frazier’s recent denial that he saw PM makes it possible to set a very simple test. This consists of asking anyone who says PM is not Oswald if they believe Frazier was telling the truth when he said he didn’t see PM.

If they answer Yes, they are exposing themselves as disingenuous gobshites with whom it’s not worth discussing anything.

If they answer No, they must accept the unavoidable corollary that PM is Oswald. If they don’t accept that corollary, they are likewise exposing themselves as disingenuous gobshites with whom it’s not worth discussing anything.

Amen Goban!

Mick:

Thats it in a nutshell and said beautifully too. I have been beating this drum for some time now.

Assuming there is no sack then for me thats the proof of Wes and Linnie's involvement. I absolutely agree he was intimidated, but this is where I may differ from what the rest of the gang think.

I believe 100% that Frazier and Linnie Mae set Oswald up, I have read their statements, testimonies and interviews from over the years to death, and they smell rotten to the core.

PM and Frazier in my mind cuts to the core of the Frazier paradigm. He is less than 4-5 feet away from PM is not blind sided by anything or anyone just after the biggest event in his life occurred. To say he can't remember whom PM is is an insult to all rational minded people. Logic dictates he knows, and by extension his refusal to tell us who PM is can only be taken IMO as proof he does know who the person was. The fact he has not nominated a stranger or anybody else other than Oswald is of itself a dead give away to my mind.

So yes he was given a going over to be sure, but with good reason IMO, he was involved in some way. But perhaps by midnight or just a little afterward as they were interogating Frazier the word had come through that Oswald had been charged on both counts and he was "our man" and acted alone without accomplices.....

Wesley Frazier was a lucky man that night in my opinion, and he knows that even today.

Mick:

I think this would go a long way in explaining why I believe Frazier took Oswald to the Texas theater after the shots were fired. Think about that for a moment. It makes sense. He would have been targeted as the getaway man, if your hunch is right, he was being accused of aiding the assassin. Remember Wesley lied about his whereabouts after the event. Why? His lies are not misremembering. Think about all the various versions he's told us over the journey of what he did immediately following the assassination and the departure from the TSBD. He is absolutely unaccounted for approximately 3-5 hours and has lied about what he did do during these unaccounted hours. Why?

And remember this too, and I may have my detractors on this, but if you do not believe in the paper bag story told by Wesley and Linnie Mae (the only two persons to see the bag) then it goes without saying Lee was set-up by Wes and Linnie, and it means something else too.

It certainly means Linnie Mae had foreknowledge of that sack, and in particular the sack which would be discovered in at the TSBD.

Putting these things together to my mind creates a powerful case for their involvement in some way in the framing of LHO.

So yes, if Wesley was really accused by the DPD it still fits with the above IMHO.

Having said all that, one has to ask why it was that Frazier was called back after being released by the DPD supposedly to take the lie detector test at 9.00pm. No matter we know he was called back. It's what happened in those 3 hours that is of much interest to my mind.

And about sometime after midnight 3 hours or so later he is released unconditionally, It strikes me as odd.

Remember this too he was arrested, the place he was residing was searched and some of his belongings were taken into custody.

No matter what anyone believes or makes of all this Wesley Frazier has some explaining to do, thats for certain IMHO.

If there's no sack, no walk through the carpark with Oswald, and no account for his whereabouts after the shots, then IMO he should be quizzed.

It simply is no longer good enough for him to say there was a sack, or he was with Oswald in the carpark and nowhere good enough to simply say I don't remember where I was after the shots.

And it's certainly nowhere good enough to make the claim he did not observe PM, Darnell frames prove he did!

If you don't believe in the sack BS then Wesley is implicated. Period! To cut him some slack on this is ludicrous.

Of course if you subscribe to the sack story and the BS drive in to work, along with the walk-in through the carpark with Oswald, and the basement and lunch BS and the "I didn't see PM" BS and the "I went straight home/No I went to the hospital BS and finally the arrest and interrogation BS stories then by all means cut him all the slack you want.

I've simply grown so tired of reading about the woe is me man for far too long, I don't buy it!

It's irrevelant, but Wesley perjured himself in the Clay Shaw trial, and thats thanks to the Shields HSCA interview.

We know that today, pitty it was not examined more thoroughly way back then.

End of Rant!

December 14, 2015 at 8:45 AM

Member

Posts: 1006

Paul McGurkenfarklein at December 14, 2015 at 2:35 PM

Glad to have a discussion with you bro. That's what its all about. I want to ask you Mick at what point do you think Frazier started packing his hole? I reckon he would have got on the phone to his sister when Oswald was first suspected. Probably before 3pm.

Thanks mate.

That's a great question and for me a perplexing one too.

Our different views on Wes's wittingness makes it hard to align in this regard.

But I have little or no doubt that Wes either popped into see his sister at home, met her at a prearranged location or used a phone to talk with her some time after the event. In Adamciks report he states Randle had driven up to the Paine house to drop the dime on LHO. She had been out and about one would assume. She would not have driven from her house to the Paines. She also Knew where Frazier was at 3.00pm at the Irving professional center but told the cops he was at Parkland. She either wittingly or unwittingly bought her brother at least another couple of hours time.

So Randle knew where he was at 3.00pm, she must have spoken with him, that much is certain.

Any mention of the suspicious sack at three in the afternoon is many hours before it gets a mention publically, in fact it may not have been mentioned that day.

If you're right and Frazier is unwitting then all eyes should be placed on Linnie Mae and the husband William Randle.

Maybe you're right, maybe Wes only puts two and two together after the sister an he had met.

Timing is awfully tight on this scenario though, but anythings possible.

One thing I've learned from this is never say never.

Cheers Mate

December 14, 2015 at 3:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul McGurkenfarklein

Member

Posts: 466 The timing is tight Mick but its probably safe to assume the first thing he is going to do once he realises his situation is to call his family. Frazier would have been petrified at that stage. The curtain rod story backed up by his sister is what was decided. That's how I see it, Mick. I never say never either when it comes to other possibilities with this case. Never.

December 14, 2015 at 9:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin

Member

Posts: 913

Any chance that BWF's dad was calling the shots from his hospital bed? Trying to save the family and all?

We still don't know half of what's going on here but if we keep chipping away at it, someone might come up with the right angle.

December 15, 2015 at 1:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 1006

Terry Martin at December 15, 2015 at 1:10 AM

Any chance that BWF's dad was calling the shots from his hospital bed? Trying to save the family and all?

We still don't know half of what's going on here but if we keep chipping away at it, someone might come up with the right angle.

Terry,

thats something I've thought of often, the only reason I've not taken it seriously (and maybe I should have) is that there is a story in the public domain of the Step father being a drunk and abusive (source is the old Rokc forum). I've always been of the mind if that is true then why did Wes go and visit him. Maybe this part needs a going over.

I still remain convinced however that Wes and Oz didn't arrive together at the TSBD, thanks to Shanklin's report and Shields HSCA I/V.

I still don't believe there was a sack.

And I definitely don't believe Frazier walked through that parking lot 50 feet back from Lee, IMO he was on his own.

And I still think he's hiding something straight after the shots.

So if I'm right (and I certainly may not be) he is more than just covering his ass, he is a player. IMO

December 15, 2015 at 8:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin

Member

Posts: 913

Definitely a player, Mick. We also still need to find out who drove Lee to work that morning and why Wes was late getting to work, that of all days.

--

"If God had intended for Man to do anything but copulate, He would have given us brains." - - - Ignatz Verbotham

December 15, 2015 at 9:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jake

Member

Posts: 208

Mick and Terry, if I may speculate on an angle, and this is based purely on my interpretation of PM as being Oswald, then if Frazier was involved, it was probably at the same, semiconscious level as Oswald's. In other words, was he caught with Oswald in the frame up, and knew Oswald was on an operation that had some ostensible goal (like framing someone else for the attempt) that turned out to be false, when the real plan was to frame Oswald for the killing?

So, now look at the time after Oswald is in the theater and Frazier is riding home only to hear of Tippet, and would then begin to fear the worst for himself and for Oswald. To digress a bit, perhaps one or both of them recognized their exposure in this hypothetical operation beforehand. Would Oswald in particular, being the older and more experienced operator have recognized that he was fully dependent upon the good faith and follow through of his higher ups to support whatever it was he was executing that day? Did he take precautions perhaps? What if Oswald passed along something like a camera or a roll of film to Frazier the moment he saw that JFK was actually assassinated, along with instructions that if anything happens to him, keep it safe for the protection of both their families?

Recall the 6th floor museum interview of BWF by GM that Linda posted, in which GM seems to be probing for information about a camera and pictures in the context of his being out on the steps that day. That is really quite strange.

Back to Frazier riding home; might he have had something in his possession that he secreted away (in a safe place, a bank box, or even with a lawyer maybe) that he has used successfully to defend himself and the others against retaliation or manipulation or whatever?

It's all hair brained speculation on my part and if nothing else, it makes a good story; but the flow of events is very strange as you point out so well, and if it's Oswald on the steps, then anything is possible.

I do feel sympathetic to Frazier under any scenario. He was a 19 year old kid in raw survival mode. Whatever actually happened, he's had to live with it ever since and that has to be a tough row to hoe no matter what.

December 15, 2015 at 9:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul McGurkenfarklein

Member

Posts: 466 If Wes was a player he wasn't a very good one. Hanging out with Oswald on the steps of TSBD steps just after the shots is not exactly a major league play. Nor is saying he drove in Oswald that day with a package. I think Frazier played his own game when he was in trouble.

December 15, 2015 at 10:02 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 1006

All great points, it serves us well having such a diverse range of views, we can nut some of this out.

Maybe that's why we should take a closer look at Fraziers sister and the husband and that whole living arrangement in Irving much more closely. Its been mentioned before now that maybe Frazier was a pawn in some of the Randle's parlour games.

As Paul and Jake have shown, anything is possible.

December 15, 2015 at 10:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 1006

Terry Martin at December 15, 2015 at 9:37 AM

Definitely a player, Mick. We also still need to find out who drove Lee to work that morning and why Wes was late getting to work, that of all days.

I agree! Whilst others may differ with this view, I find myself convinced after reading the material I've read that BWF is involved in some way in the Framing of Lee.

For me its the little clues, which IMO cannot be ignored or brushed aside.

Its the amibiguity of Paine's and Marina's WC testimony as to when Lee might have left for work that morning. It's the acknowledgement from Marina's WC testimony, that Linnie Mae might have driven Lee to work prior to the 22nd or at least to the bus stop. Thats important.

Its the fact Lee chose this day of all days to trudge up to the Randle house, for the first time breaking the pattern of him being picked up by Wesley at the Paine residence.

Its the fact that the story from both Randle and Frazier on Lee's walk to their house is full of holes. That not another living soul was reported to have witnessed Lee with a sack.

The fact the stories of Frazier's and Randle's version of what they saw Lee doing with the sack are at odds

Its Randles ratting on Lee at 3.00pm before she could have possibly known of a sack being found inside the TSBD

Its about the fictional walk into the TSBD as told by Wesley, the one where Lee is 50 feet ahead of him, and his waiting back revving the engine.

Its Wes's shifting stories after the event.............IMO they're all little clues.

IMO they cannot be swept aside

I believe Shanklin's report along with Edward Shields, a totally disconnected and uninterested party gave us the biggest clue there is that Wesley did not drive Oswald to work. Shanklin reported Oswald was spotted in the DR at 7.45am or near enough to, and Wesley was spotted sometime just after 8 driving into the parking lot.

This is hugely significant, because this is at odds with Wesley being unwittingly involved in some way.

If this is true, then Wesley lied, and IMO this could not have been to save his butt. If this is true then he lied to cover something up.....

This is not just some long package curtain rod story to distance himself from Oswald, this if true it is a bare faced lie which would tend to implicate him in a much more serious way than just simply cvering his ass IMO

December 15, 2015 at 11:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin

Member

Posts: 913

A lot of people surmise that Oswald was blind-sided by what happened. He was involved in something else at the TSBD and expected his handlers to pull some strings or whatever.

Perhaps Wes was in the same predicament. He was there for something else and when the sky fell, he was grasping at straws to save his skin. Since everyone knew he was close to Ozzie, he had to devise a distraction.

Devising a carry-on for Oswald almost makes me think HE had a carry-on and was trying to re-associate it in everyone's mind to Oswald. "No that wasn't ME you saw carrying anything, it was Lee." (even if no one recalled either carrying anything)

If we keep examining all the various angles, something's going to fall into place... for someone.

December 15, 2015 at 11:57 AM

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 1007

Terry Martin at December 15, 2015 at 11:57 AM

A lot of people surmise that Oswald was blind-sided by what happened. He was involved in something else at the TSBD and expected his handlers to pull some strings or whatever.

Perhaps Wes was in the same predicament. He was there for something else and when the sky fell, he was grasping at straws to save his skin. Since everyone knew he was close to Ozzie, he had to devise a distraction.

Devising a carry-on for Oswald almost makes me think HE had a carry-on and was trying to re-associate it in everyone's mind to Oswald. "No that wasn't ME you saw carrying anything, it was Lee." (even if no one recalled either carrying anything)

If we keep examining all the various angles, something's going to fall into place... for someone.

Terry you know you're right, and that leads to something else which is of importance too.

It's not just the Randle's who should be looked at more closely, but Wes's trip down to the big smoke and why.

I don't subscribe not for one nano-second he found that job in at the TSBD a mere 3 or so weeks ahead of Lee and just happened to pair up with Lee in at work by chance. How convenient it as Wes was hand to teach Oz the ropes in at work and how amazingly helpful it was that Wes could drive Lee to work.

Wrong place wrong time?

Maybe maybe not!

December 15, 2015 at 12:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul McGurkenfarklein

Member

Posts: 466 Wes may have been used. I don't discount that Terry. That is a real possibility if Ruth Paine is your neighbour.

December 15, 2015 at 12:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 1007

Paul McGurkenfarklein at December 15, 2015 at 12:35 PM

Wes may have been used. I don't discount that Terry. That is a real possibility if Ruth Paine is your neighbour.

Or as Greg has pointed out, the brother in-law of William Randle. Brother of Marvin the Dixiecrat, whom was as corrupt as they come.

December 15, 2015 at 12:43 PM Edit(3m left) Delete(3m left) Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy

Member

Posts: 1007

Paul McGurkenfarklein at December 15, 2015 at 12:35 PM

Wes may have been used. I don't discount that Terry. That is a real possibility if Ruth Paine is your neighbour.

Too true, there is always the distinct possiblity that Wesley was blackmailed! I have never discounted that.

His recollections altering over the years especially in the past few may have something to do with people in his life with important information passing away.

Who knows?

December 15, 2015 at 12:46 PM Edit(7m left) Delete(7m left) Flag Quote & Reply

Jake

Member

Posts: 209

As a devised distraction, he should likely have had input from someone somehow, which is entirely possible since a bag was part of the game plan from well before the 22nd. Recall the dead letter mail to LHO that contained a bag constructed just like the one in evidence. Somebody wanted a bag involved. We may not have two Oswalds, but we definately have two bags.

Just a thought while writing this; did LHO mail himself the bag as a precautionary measure before the shooting similar to speculation that he might have passed something off to Frazier once he knew his rug was out from under him after the shooting. As a precautionary device before the assassination, it may have needed to be subtle, like the dead letter bag approach is, so that if everything went off without a hitch, then a clue such as that could just fade away not noticed. It almost did anyway, but there it sits to this day. Why? A bread crumb from LHO?

This is all in the spirit that Terry suggests of speculating on angles in the hope that someone will twig.

December 15, 2015 at 12:48 PM

Frazier's current residence on Google Maps.

Linnie Mae Randle

If a glance could talk what would it say?

Mick Purdy at December 17, 2015 at 6:46 PM

If a glance could talk what would it say?

LOL! Yeah too true

Lets uncomplicate things for those who drop in here from time to time shall we. Those who spend the vast majority of their time at other forums discussing dead issues which have been investigated and talked about ad nauseum.

PM is the real deal, everybody here knows it, and the rest of the world has some catching up to do.

Stans work and Barto's presentation along with the efforts of almost everyone else here have nailed shut the conclusion PM = Oswald.

For those who who have not studied Stan's book or have only brushed over it fleetingly they should pause and have a re-read. I mean read it study it and only then draw a conclusion.

For if you bother to do that, there is only one conclusion to reach.

Five feet apart at the most Mick. About the distance from me on one end of the sofa to someone else at the other end of the sofa. If we both stand up at the same time, we might even look at each other.

Jake at December 20, 2015 at 7:17 PM

Five feet apart at the most Mick. About the distance from me on one end of the sofa to someone else at the other end of the sofa. If we both stand up at the same time, we might even look at each other.

Absolutely Jake.

I'm excited! this is as good as it gets when realising Frazier either unwittingly or wittingly has taken us to the mountain top, the light on the hill is well alight now.

Using Stans image it is in my opinion proof positive He knows who PM was. I can say after looking at this photo with absolute confidence He has lied when he has claimed not to know PM's identity