REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Mick Purdy at April 3, 2015 at 1:35 AM

Ed Ledoux at March 29, 2015 at 4:35 PM

Stan Dane at March 28, 2015 at 12:00 PM

Ed:

 

I found the same yearbook on ancestry.com and zoomed in their image of the page. The vertical red denotes where I cropped out the middle so to get all of the boys' faces together and zoomed up; kept your number layout.

 

Another view of this.

 

 

Sweet! Thanks Stan.
Now a mug shot of each compared to the class pictures from 1933-43 is what I have in my head.
Since we only know what his brother Redfern looks like a mugshot next to each is better...
None look like any of our known JD's, at least not outright. Maybe 6 has a look like Redfern? Of course 6 could be Jackson Temple Daugherty?
By process of elemination I can go through and just about name them all since pouring over the books and every classmate.
Throw out # 7 R Moore I believe.



1 looks just like the guy in the SW sixth floor window...creeeepy.
Anyways JD if that is whom is in this photo would be 13 in 1936
Would that favor a front row candidate?

ED,

You are a freak my friend, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

I am in awe!

#8-flattened nose? mouth sameness?

Not sure

ears appear larger than they actually are????? highlight on the left seems to make the ear look enormous and not sure about the right hand ear but seems to be slightly double image on left hand side giving the appearance of a large left ear too???????

#8?????

Mick Purdy at April 3, 2015 at 6:59 PM

Mick Purdy at April 3, 2015 at 1:35 AM

Ed Ledoux at March 29, 2015 at 4:35 PM

Stan Dane at March 28, 2015 at 12:00 PM

Ed:

 

I found the same yearbook on ancestry.com and zoomed in their image of the page. The vertical red denotes where I cropped out the middle so to get all of the boys' faces together and zoomed up; kept your number layout.

 

Another view of this.

 

 

Sweet! Thanks Stan.
Now a mug shot of each compared to the class pictures from 1933-43 is what I have in my head.
Since we only know what his brother Redfern looks like a mugshot next to each is better...
None look like any of our known JD's, at least not outright. Maybe 6 has a look like Redfern? Of course 6 could be Jackson Temple Daugherty?
By process of elemination I can go through and just about name them all since pouring over the books and every classmate.
Throw out # 7 R Moore I believe.



1 looks just like the guy in the SW sixth floor window...creeeepy.
Anyways JD if that is whom is in this photo would be 13 in 1936
Would that favor a front row candidate?

ED,

You are a freak my friend, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

I am in awe!

#8-flattened nose? mouth sameness?

Not sure

ears appear larger than they actually are????? highlight on the left seems to make the ear look enormous and not sure about the right hand ear but seems to be slightly double image on left hand side giving the appearance of a large left ear too???????

#8?????

I'd go for #6 - Can the insert be tilted to the same angle for a better comparison?

Sorry Smee, JD is not in any pictures.

I think this is our guy. Same brow ridges, lines around the mouth etc.

Thoughts?

The movie footage of Bill Decker standing at that spot is about....that could help. 

Andy,
Niether of the two pics your comparing that man next to James Eric "Bill" Decker are JD.

Ed Ledoux at September 12, 2015 at 7:44 AM

Andy,
Niether of the two pics your comparing that man next to James Eric "Bill" Decker are JD.

Ed,

Now I'm confused. I thought the yearbook photo with smilin' Jack, at least, was a lock.

Not sure that the guy on the 6'th near the windows is JD. Looks like Lovelady to me, having temporarily removed the chequered shirt.

We know Lovelady was up there:

Mr. BALL - Did you see any other people on the first floor?

Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, yes; by that time there were more; a few of the guys had come in.

Mr. BALL - And you stayed on the first floor then?

Mr. LOVELADY - I would say 30 minutes. And one of the policemen asked me would I take them up on the sixth floor.

Mr. BALL - Did you take them up there?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; I sure did.

The only other guy I've seen suggested for JD (besides a mis-identified Shelley) was the guy with big ears, I think suggested by Duncan, and I think that guy's a cop.

Not that it matters if we still have zero idea what JD looked like, but here's a frame from a Cook sequence showing my suspect (hands on hips). He seems pretty tall. Decker walks past him towards the camera a few seconds later. Jim Ewell on the right.

Sorry mate, he is not there in the yearbook pictures '37-'41. 

He is still a unknown entity.



His relatives won't post a family photo with him in it.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/history/schools/1937_sundial.txt

I know it's all confusing - not only do they have similar names / alternate spellings they even LOOK ALIKE! At least Redfern, Jr. - our Jack's bro. - looks like he could be the twin bro. of Jack Templin Daugherty. It's a total mindfuck! The Dougherty in the French club in '37 was not OUR Jack. Our Jack was an idiot and could never have survived French class! That was Jack Templin DAugherty - who was smart. I haven't done an indepth genealogical research on the Doughertys/Daughertys (just basic stuff like findagrave for him, censuses, SSDI etc...) but it's almost like at some point one branch of the Daugherty - or Dougherty - family decided to go change their surname to an alternate spelling. Maybe that's why they look alike?!

Our Jack was obviously held back in school - in '40 he was a Freshman and 17yo! His last year at Sunset before he joined the AAC and was stationed at Seymour, IN was '41. Here is his enlistment record, he joined in Oct.'42 - he would have been 19. The record is helpful in that it lists his Ht as 6'2" and Wt: 164#. But there is one more little mindfuck in his enlistment record to (purposefully?) confuse everyone: it say he had 4 years HS, when he barely survived 2!

http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/richardh11/media/JackDoughertyMilitaryService_zpsc2618233.jpg.html

So don't confuse Jack Templin Daugherty w/ Jack Edwin Dougherty. But, it certainly wasn't helpful that in Jack's WC testimony he SAID he was in HS in the late '30s! I wonder if all that messy testimony around the dates of his HS years wasn't meant to purposefully throw researchers off his trail? I know it took me a long time when i first started researching him a couple of yrs ago to straighten that out in my mind and realize he ACTUALLY attended Sunset in '41-'42.

I feel like Ed posited above that these Dougherty/Daugherty families (one big family???) could have had some intelligence connections and that a lot of these confusing biographical details could be a purposeful govt. intelligence ruse to throw people off about them.

At any rate... I just posted about this a couple of days ago on EF after i stumbled upon some new info about Jack Dougherty (new to me) so i will paste it here, i was replying to Tommy Graves, who brought up Dougherty in the "Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?" thread:

Now... interesting coincidence you should bring up Dougherty! Just yesterday i came across a thread at another JFK assassination forum in which Wes Riddle, a year or 2 ago, identified Dougherty as a big tall dark headed guy in SKAGGS 16, about to be put in a squad car to be taken to DPD for questioning! I had never seen this thread before - don't know how i missed it! It's brilliant. And I don't see that anyone there in that thread refuted his identification. I had never studied a blow up of Skaggs 16 before! Well I did yesterday and cropped out and blew up his face huge.

I had spent a lot of time a year or 2 ago looking at possible yearbook photos of Dougherty at Sunset HS. As you probably know there are several in '40 and '41 - but they are ALL group photos (of either his class, or "Company D" military drill group) and rather than naming each person precisely, their names are listed but they are not attached to anyone - so it's down to an educated guess (WTF?! How is that any way to set up a yearbook?! Irritating as H*ll!).

In '40 I'm guessing he's the extremely tall kid in the front row of his FRESHMAN Class photo in which he is 17 years OLD! 17! So, of course he is the tallest - i'm guessing it's him also because Truly had described him as a big, husky guy. Same for 1941. At that time, i used the blurry Alyea clip & stills of "Dougherty" in the t-shirt on the 6th floor to try to compare these HS class and Company D photos to, to try to figure out which ones could be the real Dougherty. What a PITA! I spent hours...days on that and cropping photos of guys i thought might be him - and got it down to 2 guys who were both huge and I thought looked a lot like Dougherty.

Well... after i blew up Skaggs 16 HUUUUUGE (as crazy Trump says :eek ) I could see that Dougherty in Skaggs 16 did not look like the 2 guys i had previously selected as as my potential Dougherty in Company D (he could still pass for my "Dougherty" selection in the Class photos though - don't ask me how that's possible...). I studied the "Company D" photos again looking for a tall guy (Dougherty was 6'2" according to his military record) who looked like the Skaggs 16 Dougherty, and low and behold the THERE HE WAS! It was amazing - he looked just like SKAGGS 16 Dougherty only thinner. Looking back, i vaguely recall someone had pointed this guy out in the Company D photos before, but i blew it off because he didn't look "husky" enough" in my mind - he looked like a tall ectomorph - and didn't look enough like the huskier guy in Alyea who also seemed to have lighter hair. I think I allowed that blurry Alyea clip and Truly's description of Dougherty as a "big husky guy", to taint my search for him - even though i should have questioned it because it was 20+ yrs removed from his HS days. Well... i made a comparison graphic of of the SKAGGS 16 Dougherty & the "Company D" Doughertys (sorry the images - esp. one of him is blurry, i'm not a paid member):

COMPANY D '40:

COMPANY D '41:

So i independently came to the same conclusion as you above on which one Jack Edwin Dougherty is in he Co. D photos (the tall thin guy)  via this Skaggs 16 connection.

It's a big change from who i used to think it was when i first did research on him - but i think it's correct. I also note that Jack's sister, Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty, LOOKS LIKE the guy we are thinking is the real Jack Edwin Dougherty in the Company D photos (note the nose). They do not look like Redfern, Jr. (And speaking of Redfern, Jr has anyone besides me noticed there is a plainclothes COP (I assume he's a DPD cop) seen in several photos
 (Allen i think?) outide the front steps of the TSBD? Here he is:



I have no idea who he is. But there is a DPD copy named "Dhority" or somethinkg like that and i've always wondered..... 

Another thing....in the 1941 Sundial yearbook (when our Jack was a Sophomore), on page 71 there is a list of future graduates of the Class of JUNE 1943. Our Jack is in the list and he's in the center of all the kids and is by far the tallest, sticking out like a sore thumb! - he's 18yo:

  http://thesunsetbisonband.com/Sundials/Sundial-1941/Page71.html

Same for the '40 yrbook... it has Jack in the list he's the big kid in the front row:

My last image didn't post for some reason... thought it did but now it's not there. Trying again here (missed the 10min edit limit!): 

Andy A. at September 11, 2015 at 3:26 AM

I think this is our guy. Same brow ridges, lines around the mouth etc.

Thoughts?

Thanks Andy! That's interesting! I do see a strong resemblance between The Co. D "Dougherty" and the guy with Decker! The face is a little heavier and older of course ...but the nose looks right (as does all the rest). Btw... they guy on the upper left you compared to is not Jack Edwin Dougherty it's an older guy named "Jack Templin Daugherty". Now back to the Decker photo.... what photo or film is that cropped from? I'd like to see more in context - if it's from a film maybe i could get a better more varied look at him. It's uncanny, IMO, how much he looks like the Co. D. Dougherty! 
Thanks again.. 

But there is a DPD copy named "Dhority" or somethinkg like that and i've always wondered

There  was cop named Charles D'hority.He was a homicide detective.He was the driver of the transfer car that was supposed to take Oswald from the DPD to the County Jail.

Linda,

The pic I cropped is from a tiny photo on p.143 of Cover-Up by Greg Shaw & Larry Harris. Unfortunately, no information re: the photo source is given. I've looked for years, but can't find this photo anywhere else. I'd link to a .PDF download, but this book has been removed from the site I was using.

The full photo as it appears in the book (possibly itself a cropped image):

Harris has passed, but Shaw might still be around. I know that he retired from JFK-research years ago, but Shaw might have some insight into the photo if he can be contacted.

The only other source I can think of at the moment for better views of this guy might be to find higher-res frames from the Cook sequence I posted above.

Hope this helps. You're doing fantastic work!

Ed Ledoux at September 12, 2015 at 12:38 PM

Sorry mate, he is not there in the yearbook pictures '37-'41. 

He is still a unknown entity.



His relatives won't post a family photo with him in it.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/history/schools/1937_sundial.txt

Forgive me Ed for saying something really stupid, but my God this looks like Lovelady...have I gone completely mad?

Mick Purdy at September 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM

Ed Ledoux at September 12, 2015 at 12:38 PM

Sorry mate, he is not there in the yearbook pictures '37-'41. 

He is still a unknown entity.



His relatives won't post a family photo with him in it.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/history/schools/1937_sundial.txt

Forgive me Ed for saying something really stupid, but my God this looks like Lovelady...have I gone completely mad?

He seems to have a man-bun, though, so it's probably an old lady. The box is hiding the buttons and pearls.

But seriously, I'd put money on that being Lovelady. See my earlier post re: his WC testimony.

Linda,

The photo from Cover-Up might be by Jim Murray. Unlike with Allen, not all of Murray's photos are on the net.

Sprague's master list shows two photos (2-8 & 2-9 at approx. 12.45 pm) showing "Walthers being interviewed in front of TSBD".

I think Sprague is mistaking Decker dress-alike Buddy Walthers for Decker himself. (2-10 is Hill shouting out the 6'th floor window).

One of the photos is this one:

https://jfkassassinationfiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/murray-17-lhoste-tdid-2.jpg

The other is one of the gaps in my Murray collection and might be the pic. from Cover-Up showing "Dougherty".

Also, the guy circled in the background might be "Not-Bush" - i.e. the spooky chain-smoker in the chequered jacket that arrests Florer.

I'm certain the "Dougherty" pic is the photo labelled by Sprague as Murray 2-8.

Murray 2-9 (see link in preceding post) shows Hill in the right foreground. The guy in front of him might be Notbush, having moved in to eavesdrop on Decker.

Sorry for all this 'thinking out loud'.

Intriguingly, Sprauge times this at 12.45. Hasan puts Hill's earliest arrival at 12.43. Hill at the window is the next sequential Murray shot.

Andy A. at September 27, 2015 at 3:15 PM

Mick Purdy at September 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM

Ed Ledoux at September 12, 2015 at 12:38 PM

Sorry mate, he is not there in the yearbook pictures '37-'41. 

He is still a unknown entity.



His relatives won't post a family photo with him in it.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/history/schools/1937_sundial.txt

Forgive me Ed for saying something really stupid, but my God this looks like Lovelady...have I gone completely mad?

He seems to have a man-bun, though, so it's probably an old lady. The box is hiding the buttons and pearls.

But seriously, I'd put money on that being Lovelady. See my earlier post re: his WC testimony.

Linda,

The photo from Cover-Up might be by Jim Murray. Unlike with Allen, not all of Murray's photos are on the net.

 

Sprague's master list shows two photos (2-8 & 2-9 at approx. 12.45 pm) showing "Walthers being interviewed in front of TSBD".

I think Sprague is mistaking Decker dress-alike Buddy Walthers for Decker himself. (2-10 is Hill shouting out the 6'th floor window).

 

One of the photos is this one:

https://jfkassassinationfiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/murray-17-lhoste-tdid-2.jpg

 

The other is one of the gaps in my Murray collection and might be the pic. from Cover-Up showing "Dougherty".

 

Also, the guy circled in the background might be "Not-Bush" - i.e. the spooky chain-smoker in the chequered jacket that arrests Florer.

 

Is this pic from a re enactment day? Or is it from the actual day?