REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

A major nail into the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter coffin.

Leo Sauvage wrote in  The Oswald Affair the following after his interview with Roy Truly, in his book in  March 1964, pp. 55–65

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Sauvage/The_Oswald_Affair/Oswald_Affair.html

All the reports we have—including the statements by Wade and Curry on television and those given to individual reporters—place Oswald in the lunchroom an extremely short time after the crime. Bob Considine of the Hearst Press, for example, was told that Oswald had been questioned inside the building “almost before the smoke from the assassin’s gun had disappeared.” As for me, I have the direct testimony of one of the two witnesses, Mr. Roy Truly.

When I asked him whether it had taken a long time for him and the motorcycle policeman to reach the lunchroom, he answered (apparently not realizing what I was driving at): “Oh, no! It was as soon as the last shot was fired when I saw the officer come running. As a matter of fact, it was so soon afterwards that I don’t believe he was riding in the motorcade. He must have been off his motorcycle, standing nearby. Anyhow, it was right away after the shots. I knew they were shots, but had no idea they were fired from the building.

I thought the officer wanted to get to the roof for a better look and I immediately offered to show him how. We ran to the freight elevators in the back of the building because the front elevators do not go beyond the fourth floor, but the two freight cars had both been left somewhere up in the top floors and we took the stairs, the officer ahead of me. When I reached the second-floor landing, the officer was already at the open door of the lunchroom, some twenty or twenty-five feet away. No, I couldn’t tell you exactly how much time it took, all this, but it wasn’t long…”

Also reproduced in The National Guardian March 24th 1964. Thanks to Ed for poiting me towards this

But Leo is not the only one.

The Detroit Free Press on Dec 7th 1963

And The New York Journal American of May 24 1964 does it again

Well, gee, Bart, I don't know.

It sure doesn't look like there was any "will-call bump" of the two stooges prat-falling all over themselves... you know, like the Gilbride would have everyone believe took up the 90 seconds to get their thumbs out of their asses and find the second-floor.

I think maybe Gilbride made that part up, huh?

Gilbride is an idiot who makes idiotic statements and backs his assumptions up with lies and make believe.  The guy is trapped in his own made-up episode of The Twilight Zone. You know the type of episode I mean? The really shit ones from season three that had shitty/boring plots and went on too long because they made them an hour long instead of 30 minutes.

As Bart has consisely illustrated; the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter happened TWO WAYS.  So, Bill Kelly can shove his "It only happened ONE WAY" malarkey up his hoop.

The interviews in Barry Ernest's book The Girl On The Stairs where Adams and Styles left the window before the limo went underneath the triple underpass and where they encounter most likely Eddie Piper (the tall black man) and not Shelley and Lovelady which was falsely inserted in Adams’ testimony.

This happens near the back of the 1st floor and they make their way out before T&B made their so called way towards there.

It means that them chicks were going down those stairs and Baker still had to park his bike!!!  And Gilbride comes up with the wishful story of them being inside the lunchroom while the girls are passing HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Add on that Adams saw the elevator cables move which looks like it was Dougherty going down from the 5th and ended up talking to Piper puts a serious strain on the whole story from a timing perspective as well. So the West elevator was down already.

Add on Otis Williams, who has gone in Darnell, and makes his way up to the 4th floor for a better view and then goes down to the 2nd floor where he is seen as being part of a group entering the offices.

I've been reading through Sandy Larsen's posts on the EF and initially I thought he had a point but I can say this now; the more I look at those GIF's the more my damn head spins and I don't know what it going on.  Sandy is saying we see Baker's face in the Malcolm Couch film.  I can't see no face.  While I did initially believe that his direction does look like it is moving past the TSBD entrance I really don't know whether that is my eyes tricking me now because the more I look at it the more cross-eyed I become.

I'm at the point now that even if Baker did initially run past the TSBD there was nothing stopping him from being called back, let's say by Roy Truly before he reached the corner.  But I'm open to the notion that Baker did not enter the TSBD straight away.  I just don't know where it leaves us if we begin to run that as a belief.

Well I think that Baker did stop at the bottom of the stairs and did not race in as has been cliamed. 

Only Pauline Sanders said she saw him go in with Truly. she was in cahoots with Reid and worked for Truly.

Molina did not see Baker, Frazier did not and so on. Lovelady and Sgelley lied about looking back and seeing them go in as they do not while walking in Couch.

Then there is Peggy Joyce Hawkins who noticed a policeman standing in front of the steps as she made her way back. She did have an excellent vantage point where she stood.

Piper mentions a 'few minutes' before Truly and a 'policeman' make their way through the 1st floor towards the back.

The timing perspective is fubar!

But I am preaching to the choir here

Barto at April 21, 2016 at 12:25 PM

Well I think that Baker did stop at the bottom of the stairs and did not race in as has been cliamed. 

Only Pauline Sanders said she saw him go in with Truly. she was in cahoots with Reid and worked for Truly.

Molina did not see Baker, Frazier did not and so on. Lovelady and Sgelley lied about looking back and seeing them go in as they do not while walking in Couch.

Then there is Peggy Joyce Hawkins who noticed a policeman standing in front of the steps as she made her way back. She did have an excellent vantage point where she stood.

Piper mentions a 'few minutes' before Truly and a 'policeman' make their way through the 1st floor towards the back.

The timing perspective is fubar!

But I am preaching to the choir here

Just done a quick search to find out whether any credible researchers have ever addressed this issue of Baker leading the way and, so far, I've pulled up zilch.  Every single critical author all cite Truly running ahead of Baker when they outline the events of that day.

The entire story is made up.  Didn't happen.  Just lies built upon lies.  I'm currently having an epiphany moment where my mind is telling me "If Lee Oswald is Prayer Man then who gives a fuck what Truly and Baker did?"  Similar to when it helped me out with the 10th & Patton bullshit when it told me "Why the hell are you timing Lee Oswald's ability to get to the Tippit shooting when you already fucking know he wasn't there?"

I still don't agree that Lovelady and Shelley are in the Malcolm Couch film because I wholeheartedly believe that Lovelady is still on the steps but, again, if Lee Oswald is Prayer Man then it matters not a jot.  Who cares where they were?

Whether you guys finally manage to get your hands on High Definition scans or not I think my time researching this thing is slowly coming to an end. Not an end out of anger.  Not an end out of frustration.  Not an end because some prick has tried to undermine my efforts to search for answers.

Just a natural end.  

If we don't get the scans then nothing changes the fact that I think there is nothing really left to know - - not for me anyway.  I know the level of deceit and lies that the DPD, the FBI, the Secret Service and the Warren Commission concocted to frame an innocent man - - and I'm 99.9% convinced that the same innocent man is captured in those blurry film frames.  Of course I could continue seaching those bits of paper that Bill Kelly loves so much to find another tasty morsel to spend months chasing down but it won't change what we already know to be the case.  That Lee Oswald did not do it.

So, from that perspective I can rest assured that I know what didn't happen that day and I hope some of the work I did helped to enlighten others about what didn't happen that day.  

And, I really believe that is as good as it gets at this point in time unless and until those films are released.  

Well said, Lee!

I think we have pretty much proven that Lee didn't do it.

If these bloodhounds want to continue their searching for who actually did the crime, let 'em go. We KNOW it wasn't Lee Harvey Oswald.

They can spend the next two centuries debating who it really was, building their Evica/Drago constructs to the moon, but who cares?

None of it will bring any justice to the case in actual fact. Proving the WC wrong was the main thing.

This is how it happened, really!!!

Honestly...........

And, I really believe that is as good as it gets at this point in time unless and until those films are released.

I think you're correct, Lee. The HD scans are it. Period. There's enough evidence already on the table – overwhelming evidence – that proves Oswald didn't shoot anyone. Any further search for details, a la AF1 tapes, may very well be basking in trivia. And a lot of people love to bask.

Let's scan the effen films and go home.

 "I thought the officer wanted to get to the roof for a better look and I immediately offered to show him how."

"we took the stairs, the officer ahead of me."

Why am I reminded here of those classic Leonard Cohen lines from that classic song "Teachers"? 

I met a man who lost his mind

in some lost place I had to find,

follow me the wise man said,

but he walked behind.

Couple of things caught my eye....this time from the New York Journal American story...

"There was one employee on the second floor at the time, a switchboard operator working in an office across from the lunchroom. She saw Oswald walk in right after we left the lunchroom. He took a coke from a vending machine and walked out of her office and down one flight of stairs to the street."

This is Geneva Hine - not Geraldean Reid. The really weird part is that the NY Journal American story was published on the very day that Truly was telling the Warren Commision abut Reid's close encounter of the Oswald kind. 

The same story quotes TruBaker as saying "Is this boy alright?" Someone corret me here if I have it wrong, but I was under the impression that "boy" was a somewhat derogatory term used on African-Americans during this era? Could it be applied to a white fella like Ozzie?

One of the threads that contain info about the Reid/Hine movements......

w*w.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,11233.0.html

I do not believe Mrs Reid for one moment.

I'm incredibly proud of some of the work I produced here on this forum surrounded by some of the smartest and well-meaning people I have ever been privileged enough to know.

Working alongside Greg has been a pure honour and although he was initially wary of me when I first entered the scene a decade ago it wasn't long before he trusted me and my intentions.

Greg and I have demolished the bus ride. The taxi ride.  We have thrown massive question marks over Oswald's occupation of Neely Street.  I have helped with the demolition of Harvey & Lee with you guys here.  I have put together a very sensible narrative, that fits the evidence, of Ralph Yates with every single member here supporting me in doing it.  I have helped destroy the 2nd floor lunchroom with Greg and all of you.  I have made more sense of creepy Larry Crafard and we now know he was much more than just a Ruby gofer.  We all worked together on showing many of the weird goings on at 1026 North Beckley and understand his occupation of a room there is just another cooked-up piece of bullshit.  We have placed new light on characters that were previously ignored.  We now know how Oswald more than likely got the job at the TSBD and why he was placed there.  

I could go on and on.  The work we have done is second to none.  No single bullet bullshit.  No medical evidence codswallop.  No ballistics malarkey.  No autopsy crapola.

We have avoided the merry-go-round that others want to place themselves, and others, on and have instead focused on areas that have given us a clearer picture of the events in Dallas before, during and after the assassination.

This place is THE BEST venue for JFK research on the internet.  The others don't like us because we don't follow their rules and don't play their parlour games.  We are not "civil" when faced with liars, cheats and bullshitters.  We call them out and destroy their arguments the only way we know how.

Me, personally, never really given a fuck who did it.  I've only ever been interested in helping Lee Oswald because I've always cared about people who have authority try to abuse them and take advantage of them for their own nefarious ends.

The inappropriately named "JFKFacts", Greg Burnham's and Crusty Charles' ghost town of a forum, Deep Politics Forum, and the Stink Hole all represent a different type of authority in my mind now.  Where they have done their best, and failed, to shut us up on the issue of Prayer Man.  They are no better than the wankers who created the mess we have worked so hard trying to unravel.

As far as Jefferson Morley and Bill Kelly are concerned, they have shown themselves up to be what they have always been which is nothing more than representatives of the "Keep JFK Research Going Around in Circles" think tank.

We might not all agree on everything here but I will say right here and now that I believe that every single one of you cares about the truth and the true facts that exist around the assassination of JFK and the framing of Lee Oswald.

Now there's a post written from the heart and sounding oh so true!

Barto at April 22, 2016 at 4:45 AM

Now there's a post written from the heart and sounding oh so true!

You can say that again.