REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Most people here know my feelings concerning Larry Crafard. For those who don’t, I think Crafard was quite likely the man who fired two shots from the sixth floor window of the TSBD, the man who was seen getting into the Nash Rambler Station Wagon by Roger Craig (and others), and the man who shot and killed J.D. Tippit. I find Crafard to be almost as interesting as Oswald himself. Now here’s a little puzzle concerning Crafard. The following is from Crafard’s interview with the FBI on November 28, 1963:

“During August, 1963, [Crafard] started to work with a carnival and followed this work, which accounted for his being at the Texas State Fair in Dallas, Texas, on or about October 15, 1963. He joined a carnival show which was named “How Hollywood Makes Movies.” This was run by a Bob Craven, of Hollywood, California, and he performed the duties of a roustabout.”

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/wh25_ce_2250.pdf

Crafard’s interview implies that he arrived at the Fairgrounds in Dallas around October 15, 1963. Most people will recognise this date as the day on which we are told Oswald was hired to work at the TSBD; commencing work the very next day. This was NOT a coincidence, IMO. When Crafard testified before the Warren Commission months later, he claimed that he went to work for the aforementioned show on the first day of the Dallas, State Fair:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47&search=Mr_Crafard+It+was+the+first+day+of+the+fair#relPageId=426&tab=page

When Craven, “Deke” Miles (who ran the show with Craven), and Marvin Gardner (who worked for the show) were interviewed by the FBI, they all confirmed that the show opened on October 5, 1963 (though Miles later said during his interview that it opened on October 6):

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1535.pdf

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11717#relPageId=8&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11810#relPageId=3&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10486&search=Sam_Daugherty+actor#relPageId=75&tab=page

When Joseph Radula and Harry Lovejoy (both of whom also worked for the show) were interviewed by the FBI, neither of them mentioned when the show opened, and then subsequently closed down:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11253&search=Harry_Lovejoy#relPageId=42&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11253&search=Harry_Lovejoy#relPageId=41&tab=page

As we can see, Miles told the FBI that the show closed down on October 19, 1963. Gardner, on the other hand, told the FBI that it closed down on October 15, 1963; and Craven more or less told the FBI that this was the case (see above interviews). Since Gardner and Craven’s interviews with the FBI took place much sooner than Miles’, I go with Gardner and Craven’s recollection of when it closed down as being the most reliable. If Gardner’s recollection is accurate, then I think it creates a problem since Crafard’s interview with the FBI (above) implies that he joined the show at around that date. I think Crafard’s alleged employment with the show (just like his alibi for the time of the assassination) stinks to high heaven.

Let’s now consider the following. “Deke” Miles told the FBI that Crafard was working for a show next to his at the Dallas Fairgrounds but was fired; and he allegedly hired Crafard because he felt sorry for him. However, Crafard made no mention of working for another show at the Fairgrounds during his interview with the FBI and when he testified before the Warren Commission. In fact, Crafard told the Warren Commission that the show he was fired from was at Memphis, Tennessee (not Dallas, Texas). If you read his interview and testimony, it is apparent that he is saying the first show he joined in Dallas, Texas, was “How Hollywood Makes Movies.” There is also no corroboration for Miles’ claim from Craven or Gardner’s interviews with the FBI.

Let’s also take into account what Ruby Stripper, Joy Dale (who also worked for the show “How Hollywood Makes Movies”;), told the FBI. She claimed that Crafard met Jack Ruby “around October 11, 1963,” and that it was Ruby who got Crafard the job with “How Hollywood Makes Movies.”

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672&search=Joy_Dale+205#relPageId=406&tab=page

As far as I am aware, there is no corroboration for this claim by Crafard, Craven, Miles, or Gardner. In fact, Crafard told the FBI that he was first introduced to Ruby “on or about October 21, 1963” by “Deke” Miles. But when Crafard testified before the Warren Commission, he claimed that he first met Ruby at the Fairgrounds about two or three days after the Fair opened. So this supposedly was around October 8 or 9. Either way, Crafard is saying that he met Ruby after he joined the show. We should also keep in mind that Dale told the FBI that Crafard went to work for Ruby at the Carousel Club around mid-October, when, according to her, the Fair had closed. However, Crafard told the FBI that he went to work for Ruby at the club around November 1, 1963, after the Fair allegedly closed in late October.

I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to see that something is not right here. In the thread “My latest essay” at this forum, I discussed the possibility that Crafard was involved in gun running at the Fairgrounds with Ruby. I will be discussing this possibility further in an upcoming post here.

To be continued…

For the record, I want to state that although I find Crafard to be very interesting, I hate him. He does my head in.

Perhaps we should ask Armstrong. I am certain he will have a doppe;ganger theory in place to end all this confusion.

So, if the DPD, Truly, or someone had the goods on Ruby, was that the leverage needed to get him to kill Oswald? Or am I jumping the gun, so to speak?

I look forward to your next installment.

Terry Martin at February 8, 2016 at 7:21 AM

Perhaps we should ask Armstrong. I am certain he will have a doppe;ganger theory in place to end all this confusion.

So, if the DPD, Truly, or someone had the goods on Ruby, was that the leverage needed to get him to kill Oswald? Or am I jumping the gun, so to speak?

I look forward to your next installment.

Thanks, Terry. My next installment may take a while to post as I continue to do research. I think poor Armstrong will be shit scared to deal with Crafard. If there is one person more dangerous to the H and L cause than Greg Parker, it is Larry Crafard. He is just too sane an alternative for these H and L nut cases to contemplate than the fictional "Harvey."

So was Ruby intentionally setting up Oswald for a fall (perhaps for gunrunning if not the assissination itself) by having Crafard impersonate Oswald to various people or was it by happenstance that various people remember Oswald being places (gun range, car dealership) that he was not? 

I look forward to your book, Harvey and Larry. :o)

I look forward to your book, Harvey and Larry. :o)

Now you're mixing and matching. Homobono Alcarez - the MC "Kennan" (aka Licozy3 aka the Philadelphian Quaker) informant couldn't remember if "Kennan"'s first name was Steve or Larry (it was popularized as "Steve" in the literature for I believe, the sake of convenience only).  Now let's face it, "Steve" and "Larry" are NOT similar sounding names. This truly was a case of a doppleganger -- but unlike Harvey and Lee - these were identical twins. Steve had an identical twin whose name was similar to "Larry" - well, at least a lot more similar than "Steve" is!

So was Ruby intentionally setting up Oswald for a fall (perhaps for gunrunning if not the assissination itself) by having Crafard impersonate Oswald to various people or was it by happenstance that various people remember Oswald being places (gun range, car dealership) that he was not?

Good question and one that I have been trying to figure out for some time (although the car dealership was Oswald, imo).

Beowulf at February 8, 2016 at 2:44 PM

So was Ruby intentionally setting up Oswald for a fall (perhaps for gunrunning if not the assissination itself) by having Crafard impersonate Oswald to various people or was it by happenstance that various people remember Oswald being places (gun range, car dealership) that he was not? 

I look forward to your book, Harvey and Larry. :o)

I believe there were two instances in which Crafard was impersonating Oswald. I discussed them in my essay on Crafard. Not sure about Ruby.

As mentioned above, in the thread “My latest essay,” I discussed the possibility that Crafard was involved in gun running with Jack Ruby at the Dallas Fairgrounds. I also discussed the likelihood that Crafard was acquainted with Lawrence Howard of INTERPEN fame (who was involved in gun running and activities against Fidel Castro); and that Bertha Cheek (whom we are told is the sister of Earlene Roberts; the house keeper at the 1026 North Beckley rooming house) was involved in the theft of weapons from the National Guard Armory in Terrell, Texas, on November 14, 1963. Let’s now consider the following.

When former DPD officer, Harry Olsen, was interviewed by William Turner as part of Jim Garrison’s investigation into the assassination, he remarked that Bertha Cheek obtained many business leads from O. L. Nelms; a millionaire Real Estate tycoon in Dallas, Texas, who was also acquainted with Jack Ruby:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Turner%20William%20Weyand%20Garrison%20File/Item%2005.pdf

Given that Cheek was heavily involved in Real Estate, this hardly comes as a surprise. Olsen purportedly rented the Beachcomber apartment from Cheek in the early 1960s. When Olsen testified before the Warren Commission, he provided what I consider to be almost comical responses to questions concerning Cheek:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47&search=Mrs_Cheek+Olson#relPageId=399&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=50&search=Mr_Olsen+Bertha+Cheek#relPageId=646&tab=page

O. L. Nelms was the owner of the Longhorn Ballroom (formerly known as Bob Wills’ Ranch House) in Dallas, Texas. Nelms had once leased the Ballroom to Jack Ruby. Nelms later sold/leased it to Dewey Groom; who was a close friend and business partner of his:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longhorn_Ballroom

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/38/3861-001.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/38/3861-002.gif

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10516&search=Dewey_Groom#relPageId=208&tab=page

What’s interesting is that Marvin Gardner (who I mentioned above) told the FBI that after the show “How Hollywood Makes Movies” closed down; Crafard continued working at the Fairgrounds for the Rock and Roll show that replaced it. Gardner claimed that this show was produced by a Jessie Seay from Dallas, Texas, whom Gardner said he understood was a friend of Dewey Groom:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10486&search=Sam_Daugherty+actor#relPageId=77&tab=page

Let’s keep in mind that both Gardner and Robert Craven (who I also mentioned above) indicated to the FBI that “How Hollywood Makes Movies” closed down on October 15, 1963; and that Crafard more or less told the FBI on November 28, 1963, that he arrived at the Dallas Fairgrounds “on or about October 15, 1963.” When Crafard testified before the Warren Commission, he confirmed that he had worked for the show Gardner said was produced by Jessie Seay (whom Crafard referred to as “Big Jess”):

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47&search=Mr_Crafard+Big+Jess#relPageId=428&tab=page

Let’s now consider the following. When Ruby associate, Wilbyrn Waldon (Robert) Litchfield, testified before the Warren Commission, he said that he met Bertha Cheek through a man named Bob Sands who owns “Bob Sands Electric Co.” Litchfield also remarked that the company “has the lighting for all the fairgrounds.”

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=50&search=Mr_Litchfield+Bob+Sands+Electric+Co#relPageId=107&tab=page

On March 6, 1964, the FBI interviewed a man whom Bill Kelly has identified as being Reverend Wayman Whitney. Whitney told the FBI that “about twenty years ago,” he had observed a gambling syndicate in existence at Dallas, and that the man who was “a local leader” of this syndicate was named Denny Pugh. Whitney went on to describe Pugh as a carnival worker “working out of Fair Park, Dallas.” Whitney further claimed that Pugh “was given unlimited power and even had the approval for all electrical installations in Dallas and other local utility work.” What really interests me however, is that Whitney claimed that Pugh operated out of a small electrical shop across the street from the Fairgrounds; which he says was owned by a man named Carroll Sands and which was known as Sands Electric shop:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57033&search=Carroll_Sands#relPageId=183&tab=page

At first I thought that “Carroll Sands” and “Bob Sands” were the same person. However, after doing some research, I discovered that according to the Dallas County birth records, a Thomas Carroll Sands was the father of a Robert L. Sands, and that Robert L. Sands was born in January 1929 (scroll to about half way through the first link):

http://www.familytreenow.com/records/genealogy/sands/robert

http://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/Texas/Thomas-C-Sands_5k0p8w

Therefore, it seems that the Carroll Sands Wayman Whitney was referring to was the father of the Bob Sands whom Wilbyrn Litchfield spoke about when he testified before the Warren Commission. It seems almost certain to me that Bob Sands was operating from the “Sands Electric shop” near the Fairgrounds. After doing some more research into Bob Sands, I discovered that in her book “A Farewell to Justice,” Joan Mellen writes that one of Clay Shaw’s acquaintances was a man named “Bob Sands” who, according to Mellen, “raised money for the sabotage of Cuba.”

https://www.google.com/search?q=Clay+Shaw+Bob+Sands&rls=com.microsoft:en-au:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADFA_enAU385&gfe_rd=cr&gws_rd=ssl&oq=Clay+Shaw+Bob+Sands&gs_l=heirloom-serp.12...0.0.0.4756.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1ac..34.heirloom-serp..0.0.0.stXNcM3rfBM

If this is the same Bob Sands Wilbyrn Litchfield was referring to (and I’ll bet my car that it was), then I think it increases the likelihood that the Dallas Fairgrounds was being used as a hub (so to speak) for gun running activities. According to Gerald Hill’s obituary in the “Dallas Morning News,” throughout his high school days in Dallas, Texas, Hill worked as an usher at the old Starlight Operetta located at the State Fairgrounds:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?pid=153027526

Since Hill was born in 1929, this would have been during the early to mid-1940s; the same period of time Wayman Whitney spoke of during his interview with the FBI. With this in mind, I wonder if Hill was acquainted with Thomas Carroll Sands, Bob Sands, and Denny Pugh (amongst others). I would state what I think the answer is, but I am sure most of you can guess what I think the answer is.

Basically, I believe Crafard joined the aforementioned so-called Rock and Roll show when he arrived at the Fairgrounds on or around October 15, 1963; and that his alleged employment for “How Hollywood Makes Movies” was a ruse to make it appear as though Crafard only got the job at the so-called Rock and Roll show after “How Hollywood Makes Movies” closed down. I reiterate that it is NOT a coincidence that Crafard arrived at the Fairgrounds on or around October 15. I believe that this so-called Rock and Roll show was quite possibly a front for gun running; with connections to the planned commando raids against Cuba in the last week of November, 1963, followed by a “large scale amphibious assault against the Cuban mainland” which John Thomas Masen spoke of (see the thread “My latest essay”). I think the reason the planned raids didn’t go ahead was out of genuine fear that an attack against Cuba would have eventually led to a nuclear war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

More to come as time allows…

Robert L. (Lee) Sands' grave:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=71236608&ref=acom

ROKC "N" ROLL!!! Outstanding research, Hasan. Deserves looking at very closely.

Hasan, every now and then I read a piece on the JFK case which piques my interest enormously, this is one of those. IMO this is an Outstanding topic and one that needs to be looked at with a magnifying glass.

It needs the full ROKC treatment. As with so many things connected to this case, it seems where there's smoke there's definitely flames. Crafard fits that bill in my opinion

October 15th

What a popular day it turned out to be for Larry and Lee to start their respective new jobs. 

Thanks for your comments, Greg and Mick. I should add that if the Bob Sands Litchfield spoke of during his testimony before the Warren Commission is the same Bob Sands Joan Mellen wrote about, then I think it also increases the likelihood that the 1026 North Beckley rooming house was involved in gun running. 

Crafard stated in that Nov 28 FBI interview that he met Ruby on or about Oct 21. Having read his testimony, I have to believe that is in error.

Mr. HUBERT. When did you first meet Jack Ruby?

Mr. CRAFARD. I met Jack Ruby about the third day of the Dallas, Fair, at the fairgrounds.

Mr. HUBERT. Tell us about how you met him.

Mr. CRAFARD. He was backing the--Mr. Craven and Mr. Miles, and he come out there to talk to them.

Mr. HUBERT. Were you present when they spoke?

Mr. CRAFARD. I was out front when he come out there.

Mr. HUBERT. Did he seem to know them or----

Mr. CRAFARD. He knew them. They were acquainted.

Mr. HUBERT. They were acquainted?

Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You could tell that from the conversation?

Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, they just walked up to each other and shook hands and called each other by the first name.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the substance of the conversation?

Mr. CRAFARD. Mostly the conversation had to do with a twistboard exerciser that Ruby was trying to promote.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, go ahead.

Mr. CRAFARD. And he was there for about a half, 45 minutes that evening, and it was 2 or 3 days later before I saw him again.

Mr. HUBERT. Before you go on, would you tell us how long after you joined the fair did you first see this man Ruby?

Mr. CRAFARD. About 2 or 3 days, about 2 days after I joined the fair.

Mr. HUBERT. That would be about 2 days after the fair opened.

Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And the second time you saw him was about 3 days after that?

Mr. CRAFARD. I believe so, yes.

The Fair - and the Hollywood show opened on October 5. Two or three days after that, Crafard meets Ruby. The FBI interview has them meeting two or three days after the R & R show ended. I think the FBI agent just got his notes confused. Two or three days after the R & R show ended was when Crafard officially started working for Ruby.

Crafard doesn't say exactly when he arrived in Dallas - only that he started work at the Hollywood show when it opened. I have checked multiple sources. It did open on Oct 5, so it is possible, maybe even likely that he arrived the day before - October 4.

Whilst October 15 was the date Oswald started work at the depository -- October 4 is an interesting date too. It is the date Oswald (also) arrived in Dallas. 

Thanks, Greg. However, I think Crafard arrived at the Fairgrounds on or about October 15, 1963, as implied in his interview with the FBI on November 28, 1963. For reasons outlined in my first post in this thread, I don't believe he worked for the show "How Hollywood Makes Movies."

I do find it interesting that they never interviewed the person Crafard named as giving him a lift. In fact, that little bit of his testimony holds some fascination. 

Mr. HUBERT. And what did you do next?

Mr. CRAFARD. I traveled to Dallas, Tex.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you travel?

Mr. CRAFARD. With a friend of mine, Mickey Spillane.

Mr. HUBERT. Mickey who?

Mr. CRARARD. Mickey Corday.

Mr. HUBERT. How do you spell the last name?

Mr. CRAFARD. C-o-r-d-a-y.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you travel?

Mr. CRAFARD. Traveled down in his car.

Mr. HUBERT. Where is he from, do you know?

Mr. CRAFARD. I don't know where his home is.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you know him prior to this time?

Mr. CRAFARD. I had seen him prior to this time and heard of him prior to this time.

Mr. HUBERT. I mean it wasn't a hitchhike?

Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; I met him at the fairgrounds in Dallas, Tex., or in Memphis.

Mr. HUBERT. Did you drive straight to Dallas?

Mr. CRAFARD. We drove straight to Dallas, Tex.

Mr. HUBERT. Now when you arrived in Dallas, what did you do?

Mr. CRAFARD. I went to work with an outfit "How Hollywood Makes Movies" setup in the Dallas, Tex., State Fair.

Mickey Spillane??? Hmmm. Mickey Corday was a friend so maybe Crafard called him Mickey Spillane as an inside joke. Maybe Crafard saw himself as Mike Hammer?

But even tho he claims Corday as a friend, he seems to know bugger all about him...

And he thinks he met him at the Dallas Fair grounds or in Memphis? Huh? Corday supposedly drove him FROM Memphis TO Dallas...

It was our own Lee Farley who once pointed out how smart Crafard was judging from his testimony. I think this was a classic example of being smart by playing dumb.

Okay. I should own up. I know who Corday is. They spelled his name wrong (big surpise).

Let's put it this way... he was military. My gut feeling is that Crafard's name change and early discharge were for purposes of intelligence work. I think they had his "perversions" over him as persuasion - if indeed that was needed. 

Hasan Yusuf at February 13, 2016 at 6:47 AM

Thanks, Greg. However, I think Crafard arrived at the Fairgrounds on or about October 15, 1963, as implied in his interview with the FBI on November 28, 1963. For reasons outlined in my first post in this thread, I don't believe he worked for the show "How Hollywood Makes Movies."

And you may well be right, Hasan. I'll have another look at it in the morning.

I honestly don't think it makes one iota of difference tho to the bigger picture you outline. 

I honestly don't think it makes one iota of difference tho to the bigger picture you outline.

I agree, Greg. I would appreciate any further contributions you (and others) make to this discussion. I just find it a bit too coincidental that Crafard implied during his FBI interview that he arrived at the Fairgrounds on or about October 15, 1963. Some might ask "why would Crafard imply such a thing if he was involved in the assassination and knew that Oswald got the job at the TSBD on October 15, 1963?" Well, I think this assumes that Crafard was told when Oswald got the job. If he was involved in the assassination (which I wholeheartedly believe he was) I don't think it was necessary for him to have known exactly when Oswald got the job at the TSBD.