REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Each name was called off for warehouse employees and Lee Oswald was absent.



After this Report by R. W. Westphal, Ganaway claimed that this was the reason for the broadcast description ...really No Name and Address but a vague description was broadcast even though, as Ganaway admits, this was due to Lee not being at this roll call.
Well if you had a name why not broadcast it with a description. Why? Because DPD had no such roll call, no such idea whom was missing, or what the 'missing' persons name was.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1156950

Wesley Frazier described the roll call in detail and how he heard Lee's name but figured Lee had already left.
Wesley claims a roll call happened. Was Wes at that roll call?
We know Wesley's name was missing from this roll call sheet with 55 names, although his sister made the cut for a while till being crossed off.
Did he give his sisters name? Hmm He doesn't look like a Linnie Mae.
Wesley said he was there and he did hear Lee's name called out. Did he hear Lee's name called out first and wander around trying to find his friend?
What should we believe about Wes and his roll call recollections?
Why is his name not on that roll call sheet if he was there?

It is claimed that 33 warehouse workers were associated with the Elm Street location that day.
CE 1381 includes the names and a quick statement of 73 persons whom worked in the TSBD on 11/22
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

Some problems with a roll call from the outset., even the list the DPD provides only 55 names.
Roy "Ray" Lewis and Terrence "Lawrence" Ford are added twice. So only 53 names on the list.

We know this is a 11/22 roll call list because it has WPAA's Terrence Ford's name.
He was trapped with reporters
Pierce Allman,  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tsR8PGx2ZE&feature=youtu.be   
MUST WATCH AND LISTEN TO VIDEO!! Besides the ducking and slumping!

Here Allman gives his movements

But on the second shot, I glanced up, my gaze stopped one floor below on the depository building, I saw the three guys looking out of the window, looking up. And I went back to the scene on the street and it was pretty obvious Kennedy had been hit. And, as the car drove off, a uniformed policeman came over and said, 'Everybody down.' On about the second shot, we all got down and of course popped back up as the car sped off. As the car sped off, that's when the Secret Service man from the back had vaulted over and pushed Jackie back in the seat, she was trying to come up, and that's when the body assumed that grotesque position we saw on the way to Parkland. Then I ran across the street, spoke to the Newmans and said, 'Stop!' And why we were running that direction, I couldn't tell you. It was just sort of a flow. I stopped and said, 'Are you ok?' He said, 'Yeah, but they got the president. They blew the side of his head in.' I remember thinking, 'I've got to get to a telephone.' But we continued up the little hill there -- I won't say 'knoll' -- the little hill...

Bill: That's all right.

Pierce Allman: And Bob Jackson from the Times-Herald was running behind me. And why we went up there, I don't know, except there was just sort of a movement up there. And then I turned around, ran back down the hill, ran up the sidewalk, went into the depository building, asked the guy where the phone was, went inside, got on the phone, called the station, and had trouble getting through. By the time I got through, said here's what happened, I was more concerned about the implications of what to say. I was fairly sure that...first of all, he was hit. You can't go on air and say the president's been killed. You don't know that. So you can't do that. And I realized you just can't do this. You can't go on the air and say the leader of the free world has just been cut down, you know, in Dallas, during the noonday parade. So I [don't] remember exactly. I heard the tape later, saying that he was hit. Witnesses reported he was hit, slumped forward, you know, and more later. Put the phone down, ran upstairs, then realized, whoop, need the phone, went back down, actually hung up one time, and then realized what I had done, and called back and said, 'Just leave the line open, strap on a tape.' A little later, they did bring, they brought Oswald...they brought the rifle down. A distinct impression: and that was, while I was on the phone, no one ever challenged me. No one ever said, 'Who are you? Who are you calling?' And no one took charge. See, at the time, what you really had was a local homicide. It wasn't against federal law to kill a president. But no one took charge. Lot of uniforms milling around, a lot of plainclothesmen milling around. No one ever said, 'Stop! Hit the wall!,' you know.... Nobody. So it was just this constant milling around. Finally, sometime later, you got back to the station before I did (nodding towards the Newmans) because it was sometime later when a gray-haired guy in a gray suit said [he wanted] to know who I was and what I was doing. And I identified myself and he suggested I wrap it up. I identified him later as Army intelligence. They said that was inaccurate, he might have been CIA or Secret Service, more likely. And when I tried to leave the building I couldn't because it was cordoned off. So I had to stay inside for a while. And when I went outside, [I saw] clusters of people around transistor radios, and I realized what was happening.... I was really concerned, he was not pronounced dead until after.... In fact I didn't know he had been pronounced dead until I got back to the station, walked into the door,

Also trapped inside was Kent Biffle  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqXOWMU4_3E

We know some employees like Givens were not allowed back in to be counted. Truly knew this from his answers to WC counsel about Givens.

How would such an roll call help locate an employee whom was just located by Truly, ie Oswald. So how can he be missing, eg Givens. 

How about Danny Arce, he did not 'return' to the TSBD, he was taken in the car with others to city hall. Was he included in the list?
Didn't both Givens and Arce miss the 'Roll Call'?
When did Truly know Danny was outside and then taken in by DPD? Can't be as quick as he called for Lee's address!!

What does a roll call do for the DPD? Was it the DPD asking for this or was this a impromptu idea of Trulys?

Was a general TSBD building employee list made and also a warehouse list?

How was the other list generated? Were APB's sent out for missing publishers? Secretaries and temps arrested?  Was Jack Cason hauled in?
Only warehouse workers are implicated somehow, yet like a union shop they decided the new guys, the temps take the axe for the rest with seniority? Shit really does flow down hill in this situation.

A list of all those in the building I can see as useful to the authorities. It is evidentiary.
A list of all those whom work in or have access whould be equal in evidentiary value.
Having a roll call usually folks know ahead of time that you are wanting to be counted.
Documenting a gathering, not so useful.
Gathering then documenting, very useful!

So...Was the roll call real?

Lets see what Roy Truly has to say.

Mr. Ball. Now, what did you tell Chief Lumpkin when you came down from the roof of the building?

Mr. Truly. When I noticed this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that "We have a man here that's missing." I said, "It my not mean anything, but he isn't here." I first called down to the other warehouse and had Mr. Akin pull the application of the boy so I could get--quickly get his address in Irving and his general description, so I could be more accurate than I would be.

Mr. Ball. Was he the only man missing?

Mr. Truly. The only one I noticed at that time. Now, I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Givens, but I had seen him out in front walking up the street just before the firing of the gun.

Mr. Ball. Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?

Mr. Truly. No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them.

Not exactly a roll call, just a group waiting around to see if work was to continue. Nothing about a check list or reading off names. He had just seen Lee less than 5 minutes ago in the lunch room. Did he or anyone check the luchroom? And why was Givens given a pass as Roy said he saw him on the street before the gun shots. But he saw Lee in a Lunchroom moments after the shots.

Mr. GIVENS. So I stood there for a while, and I went over to try to get to the building after they found out the shots came from there, and when I went over to try to get back in the officer at the door wouldn't let me in.

Mr. Belin. Did you tell him you worked there?

Mr. Givens. Yes; but he still wouldn't let me in. He told me he wouldn't let no one in.

I think they did let people back in but as the films show it was spotty, and seems Billy Lovelady was out front for quite sometime, hence his addition to the roll call in pen at the bottom?

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=171624

Lets continue with Roy's recollections.

Mr. Truly. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.

Mr. Belin. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?

Mr. Truly. I am sure they had.

Mr. Belin. Then what?

Mr. Truly. Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth.

Is Truly confusing several officers taking down names and addresses by the front steps/entrance? Or actually the Front West corner of the shipping floor?

Mr. Ball. Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?

Mr. Truly. No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them.

Whom else was missed?

Mr. TRULY. No. When I came down from the second floor---from the seventh floor with the officer, I thought I saw Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor, which he would have had plenty of time to move the elevator down and up and get some stock and come back.

Mr. TRULY. Yes. When coming down I am sure I saw Jack Dougherty getting some books off the fifth floor. Now, this is so dim in my mind that I could be making a mistake.

So the dim recollection that he had seen Jack far outweighs in his mind that Lee was missing and suspicious.
Jack winds up as a late addition to the list, his name in pen added with Jarman, Lovelady and Truly at the bottom of the roll call list sheet.
Jack was on a much higher floor than Lee.
Jack was not eating his lunch at lunch time. Lee was in a lunch room.
Jack was vaguely remembered by Roy, yet Lee was vividly recalled being stopped by an officer at gun point in the lunchroom.
Jack never was at the roll call as Jack was trying to find Roy.
Jack would be on six when the rifle is found and Roy never sees a rifle till it is taken out the front door.
Jack thinks Roy was on fourth floor. But does not find him.
So Jack was not around, dim memory of Roy seeing him, seeing him on an upper floor....yet Lee Oswald is stuck in Truly's head... Oy Vey!!

Mr. Truly. Then we continued on down, and we saw officers on the fourth floor. I don't recall that we stopped any more until we reached the first floor. But I do recall there was an officer on the fourth floor, by the time we got down that far.

Mr. Belin. All right. And then you got down eventually to the first floor?

Mr. Truly. That is right.

Mr. Belin. About how long after these shots do you think it took you to go all the way up and look around the roof and come all the way down again?

Mr. Truly. Oh, we might have been gone between 5 and 10 minutes. It is hard to say.

Mr. Belin. What did you do when you got back to the first floor, or what did you see?

Mr. Truly. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.

Mr. Belin. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?

Mr. Truly. I am sure they had.

Mr. Belin. Then what?

Mr. Truly. Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth.

Mr. TRULY. No. When I came down from the second floor---from the seventh floor with the officer, I thought I saw Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor, which he would have had plenty of time to move the elevator down and up and get some stock and come back.

Truly will now see the officers taking names in different areas of the building. not just in the West corner. Would take some real compilation of lists to get one name out of 33, or 73.
So with some hesitation Truly asks Otis and then calls for a address and description on the missing boy Lee Oswald. No checking these lists, just a hunch!

Mr. Truly. There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys.

So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there.

First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.

Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?

Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no.

So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that.

So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Why didn't you ask for any other employees?

Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.

HOW WAS ROY TRULY SO CERTAIN AND CERTAIN SO QUICKLY THAT LEE WAS NOT IN THE BUILDING UNLESS HE SAW HIM LEAVE OR KNEW FROM ANOTHER THAT LEE LEFT, AND WAS NOT SOMEWHERE IN A SEVEN STORY BUILDING?
AMAZING, BEFORE THE RIFLE OR ANY EVIDENCE IS FOUND ROY KNOWS WHOM TO FINGER!!

OKAY to recap he sees cops taking names, does not get a list of those names or see if the Missing Boy was on the list, he just decides with Otis to call Aiken and then turn in LHO to DPD. How convenient for Roy. He calls gets the info on LHO but not on any other missing employee.

No call about Givens. No need to get Givens address and none was listed on the "roll call" sheet or "contact sheet"

First chance Truly gets he starts to set up Lee!

And I thought the DPD was quick getting their man,,, 88 minutes was it? Here Truly knew in the first fifteen minutes. Whoa!

Gerald Hill stated Captain Fritz said to him, "Well, he was employed down at the Book Depository and he had not been present for a roll call of the employees." and Hill saved the trouble of a Irving trip as LHO was in custody already. Stand back DPD, Roy Truly is here!

"At the Texas School Book Depository, police officers are conducting a roll call outside of Bill Shelley's Office.." is word and script from Bugliosi

Bug needs a Roll Call Remedy!!

I did a roll call for 11/22 and came up with 80 employees associated with the TSBD that day.

MY ROLL CALL

1 Adams, Victoria

2 Arce, Danny Garcia

3 Arnold, Carolyn

4 Barnum, Virginia H

5 Berry, Jane

6 Burns, Doris

7 Calvery, Gloria

8 Campbell, Ochus.Virgil

9 Case, Edna

10 Cason, Jack Charles

11 Caster, Warren

12 Clay, Billie P.

13 Davis, Avery

14 Dean, Ruth J.E.

15 Dickerson, mary sue.

16 Dorman, Elsie

17 Dougherty, Jack Edwin.

18 Dragoo, Betty Jean

19 Elerson, Sandra Sue (Nee Kramer?)

20 Foster, Betty Alice

21 Frazier, Buell Wesley

22 Garner, Dorothy

23 Givens, Charles Douglas

24 Hawkins, Peggy Joyce Bigler (John)

25 Hendrix, Georgia Ruth

26 Hicks, Karen (Karan)

27 Hine, Geneva L.

28 Hollis, Mary Madeline

29 Holt, Gloria Jeanne

30 Hopson, Yola D (Nee Dixon)

31 Hughes, Carol

32 Jacob, Stella Mae

33 Jarman, James Earl

34 Johnson, Judy Marie

35 Jones, Carl Edward

36 Jones, Spaulding Earnest

37 Junker, Herbert Lester

38 Kounas, Dolores P.

39 Lawrence, Patricia Ann

40 Lewis, Ray Edward

41 Lovelady, Billy

42 McCully, Judy

43 Molina, Joe Rodrequez

44 Nelson, Ruth

45 Nelson, Sharon (Nee Simmons)

46 Norman, Harold Dean

47 Oswald, Lee Harvey

48 Parker, William V.

49 Piper, Eddie

50 Rackley, Virgie

51 Reed, Carol (Delbert E Reed) South_western Publishing Co

52 Reed, Martha

53 Reese, Jim

54 Reid, Jeraldean, Bray. Mrs. Robert Anthony.

55 Richey, Bonnie

56 Sanders, Pauline

57 Shelley, Bill

58 Stansberry, Joyce Maurine

59 Stanton, Sara

60 Styles, Sandra

61 Thornton, Betty

62 Truly, Roy S.

see 51 Unknown girl Southwestern Publishing Co and Mrs. Hine said she was on the telephone.

63 Viles, L.R.

64 Watley, Vida Lee

65 West, Troy Eugene

66 Westbrook, Karen

67 Whitaker, Lupe "Lucy"

68 Williams, Bonnie Ray

69 Williams, Mary Lea

70 Williams, Otis Neville

71 Wilson, Steven F

HOUSTON STREET WAREHOUSE

72 AIKEN, HADDON SPURGEON

73 Wester, Franklin Emmett

74 Shields, Edward*

75 Smith, Gordon Wayne.

NOT AT WORK 11/22

76 Davis, Vickie

77 Kaiser, Franklin

78 Lovelady, Dottie

79 Palmer, Helen

80 Bergin, Joe

*Was listed among the 73 statements in CE 1381. This would reduce the count to 72 Elm Street building employees.

Is this THE LIST or is there more Employees to add?

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:51 PM

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Wes also remembers in this video, ( approx @ 13.58 - 15.20 )how Lee walked from the dock area, along Houston out onto Elm and headed toward a cafe' or some such on his departure.

Wes Remembers a lot.

If a role call was held wouldn't it have been nice of Wes to let Mr Truly and Mr Shelley know that, no Lee had wandered up the Street to have lunch again, the cheese sanwich and apple just didn't cut it first time round

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:57 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:51 PM

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Wes also remembers in this video, ( approx @ 13.58 - 15.20 )how Lee walked from the dock area, along Houston out onto Elm and headed toward a cafe' or some such on his departure.

Wes Remembers a lot.

If a role call was held wouldn't it have been nice of Wes to let Mr Truly and Mr Shelley know that, no Lee had wandered up the Street to have lunch again, the cheese sanwich and apple just didn't cut it first time round

BWF seems to be very well versed in selective memory.

Either that or an overblown survival instinct.

Ed,

Linnie Mae got on Revill's because of a mix-up through the Austin Motel manager phoning the FBI about Willie telling them that his wife's brother worked with Lee and had given him a lift. Somehow that ended up as a report that his WIFE worked there. So she was added to the list and crossed when the mistake was sorted out.

The list itself was made from the cops taking names and contact details before letting people go.

It has long been my contention that Lee is at the top of the list because he was the first to allowed to leave.

As for Frazier... he told Manchester that he left straight away because he figured there'd be no more work. Sound familiar? It's right there buried in the notes at the back of the book... but don't have time right to chase up exact quote or page number... perhaps Frazier left the same way he came in?

The only useful information on the job application was an address, height and weigh. Not even a date of birth, and certainly not hair color. The job application is interesting for another reason.  It asks if you "room & board",  "live with parents", organizations you belong to and what your parents do, along with the usual work and health history. The reason for those questions is to try and establish how stable you are. One of the main issues with places like that is finding reliable workers - those who will turn up every day and do the work. As opposed to itinerates who are more likely to be lodging. The reason i bring this up is that people like DVP harp on about the lies he told - even on job application forms.

There is nothing "sinister" about this. For most people, it's survival - being able to get the job. In Oswald's case, it was just to keep the paperwork in line with what is expected. He had the job regardless, but  it had to look like an application for someone you would employ.

But back to the main theme... yes -- no roll call - just cops taking details. Lee got out before they had decided to keep everyone there as a group and take the details as a group. But of course --- they still did get Lee's name and address off him before letting him loose. That is clear from what was reported in various papers, as well as by Harry Holmes ("I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about.") I believe when he says "then I went outside..." he is talking about after they took his name etc...

Who knows whether it was Truly or Shelley who "okey'd" Oswald... Bottom line is Truly is in this up to his eyeballs, He set the pack after the rabbit. Imo it was Truly or sidekick Shelley who told Oswald getting involved even as a witness would blow the operation they were involved in keeping tabs on Molina and that he had to get to the Texas Theater to meet whomever so they could work out a plan. Oswald was being played. That was the plan. Send him off on a pretext, and then make out he had a done a runner. There also was obviously a plan in place to lead the cops to the theater, though I'm still thinking about how that may have worked. 

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:57 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:51 PM

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Wes also remembers in this video, ( approx @ 13.58 - 15.20 )how Lee walked from the dock area, along Houston out onto Elm and headed toward a cafe' or some such on his departure.

Wes Remembers a lot.

If a role call was held wouldn't it have been nice of Wes to let Mr Truly and Mr Shelley know that, no Lee had wandered up the Street to have lunch again, the cheese sanwich and apple just didn't cut it first time round

I don't know about the cafe, but I believe he is simply replacing himself with Oswald.

Oswald is on the list of employees whose names were taken. Frazier's is not.

Truly is aware of what is about to happen. Shelley, probably. Frazier, no idea, but well and Truly dropped in the shit. Wouldn't be the first time i was wrong!

Why the Elsbeth address for Oswald? It was on the library card in the wallet according to the cops (with the wrong number). Did Oswald supply that? Was it added after the arrest? Why wasn't the Irving address listed as the TSBD had that recorded for him and Fritz made aware of it by Truly about 1.30pm. 

Colin Crow at March 14, 2015 at 11:59 PM

Why the Elsbeth address for Oswald? It was on the library card in the wallet according to the cops (with the wrong number). Did Oswald supply that? Was it added after the arrest? Why wasn't the Irving address listed as the TSBD had that recorded for him and Fritz made aware of it by Truly about 1.30pm. 

If that wrong address was on the library card, it fits perfectly with my theory. If he was stopped on the way out and asked to a wait a second wihile some got his details, he may well have been asked to show ID or just decided to flash it himself when asked for details. 

The Irving address wasn't used because the list was completed from the details taken by the cops - not company records. The only additions were LATE additions well after the search of the TSBD had be completed (e.g. the addition of Linnie Mae Randle based on the misunderstanding outlined in an earlier). In any case, it's unlikely Fritz wrote the Irving address down or shared it with anyone early on, save those he sent there. 

By any chance was his name written on the library card as "Oswald, Harvey Lee", "Harvey, Lee Oswald" or any other combination?

Greg at March 14, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:57 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:51 PM

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Wes also remembers in this video, ( approx @ 13.58 - 15.20 )how Lee walked from the dock area, along Houston out onto Elm and headed toward a cafe' or some such on his departure.

Wes Remembers a lot.

If a role call was held wouldn't it have been nice of Wes to let Mr Truly and Mr Shelley know that, no Lee had wandered up the Street to have lunch again, the cheese sanwich and apple just didn't cut it first time round

I don't know about the cafe, but I believe he is simply replacing himself with Oswald.

Oswald is on the list of employees whose names were taken. Frazier's is not.

Greg,

sorry if I confused the issue here, simply was trying to point out how full of it Wes is.........

I don't for a moment think he saw Oswald doing what he says he did after the shots were fired

Mick Purdy at March 15, 2015 at 2:08 AM

Greg at March 14, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:57 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:51 PM

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Wes also remembers in this video, ( approx @ 13.58 - 15.20 )how Lee walked from the dock area, along Houston out onto Elm and headed toward a cafe' or some such on his departure.

Wes Remembers a lot.

If a role call was held wouldn't it have been nice of Wes to let Mr Truly and Mr Shelley know that, no Lee had wandered up the Street to have lunch again, the cheese sanwich and apple just didn't cut it first time round

I don't know about the cafe, but I believe he is simply replacing himself with Oswald.

Oswald is on the list of employees whose names were taken. Frazier's is not.

Greg,

sorry if I confused the issue here, simply was trying to point out how full of it Wes is.........

I don't for a moment think he saw Oswald doing what he says he did after the shots were fired

Understood, but I think he did a lot of switching of information.

He took a package, not Oswald.

Oswald took his lunch cradled between his legs in front seat. Cheese sanger and piece of fruit. He knows this from experience with Oswald - but that is the lunch he himself claimed to bring that day

He left through the dock entrance, not Oswald as he would much later claim. We can guess it was him who did it because of his name being missing on that list.

I think there are other examples that I'm not recalling right now.

Greg at March 15, 2015 at 12:33 AM

Colin Crow at March 14, 2015 at 11:59 PM

Why the Elsbeth address for Oswald? It was on the library card in the wallet according to the cops (with the wrong number). Did Oswald supply that? Was it added after the arrest? Why wasn't the Irving address listed as the TSBD had that recorded for him and Fritz made aware of it by Truly about 1.30pm. 

If that wrong address was on the library card, it fits perfectly with my theory. If he was stopped on the way out and asked to a wait a second wihile some got his details, he may well have been asked to show ID or just decided to flash it himself when asked for details. 

The Irving address wasn't used because the list was completed from the details taken by the cops - not company records. The only additions were LATE additions well after the search of the TSBD had be completed (e.g. the addition of Linnie Mae Randle based on the misunderstanding outlined in an earlier). In any case, it's unlikely Fritz wrote the Irving address down or shared it with anyone early on, save those he sent there. 

By any chance was his name written on the library card as "Oswald, Harvey Lee", "Harvey, Lee Oswald" or any other combination?

The library card was written as Oswald, Mr. Lee Harvey

Is it my early morning eyes but does the #2 on 602 look like it's been fucked with?

Lee:

It's hard to say if there's a smudge that just happens to be on the 602 or if it's something else. The 2 does seem to line up consistent with the rest of the characters on that line, so I don't know. It's not like the raised/tilted 2 we saw on, IIRC, Tippit's death cert.

Lee,

it appears somewhat smudged but not as if its been typed over. Easily mstaken for a 5 at a glance. The appearance of this address is bizzarre IMO.

"Understood, but I think he did a lot of switching of information.

"He took a package, not Oswald.

"Oswald took his lunch cradled between his legs in front seat. Cheese sanger and piece of fruit. He knows this from experience with Oswald - but that is the lunch he himself claimed to bring that day

"He left through the dock entrance, not Oswald as he would much later claim. We can guess it was him who did it because of his name being missing on that list."

So, after Officer Barber rushed into the TSBD, Oswald hung around a while, helped officers and reporters find telephones and such while BWF rushed downstairs IIRC to "finish his lunch" (which sounds as lame as feeling a sudden need to go get a Coke) and perhaps turn off the power for a short time, before scooting out the backdoor before the cops could lock the place down.

Seems Ozzie the rabbit was not the fellow acting suspicious but the weasel, BWF. If, as Greg suggests, we simply switched all the actions reported as Oswald's but make them Frazier's we might get further.

Still would like to see if we can figure out when the story of the curtain rods and such was created. Was it in place before the Friday morning drive or created on the fly when it seemed Oswald was going to be the one left holding the bag... irony intended.

In other words, did they plan to pin the crime specifically on Oswald from the start or did the opportunity simply present itself? IMO if Frazier knew Oswald was going to take the fall and saw Lee appear on the front steps right beside him, I should think he would have shat his pants and panicked. Perhaps they hoped someone a bit further removed from Frazier would get pinned with it. If I am wrong about this then BWF is a colder-blooded MF that I gave him credit.

Greg at March 15, 2015 at 3:34 AM

Mick Purdy at March 15, 2015 at 2:08 AM

Greg at March 14, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:57 PM

Mick Purdy at March 14, 2015 at 5:51 PM

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

The Role call as remembered by Wes

@ 20.33

Wes also remembers in this video, ( approx @ 13.58 - 15.20 )how Lee walked from the dock area, along Houston out onto Elm and headed toward a cafe' or some such on his departure.

Wes Remembers a lot.

If a role call was held wouldn't it have been nice of Wes to let Mr Truly and Mr Shelley know that, no Lee had wandered up the Street to have lunch again, the cheese sanwich and apple just didn't cut it first time round

I don't know about the cafe, but I believe he is simply replacing himself with Oswald.

Oswald is on the list of employees whose names were taken. Frazier's is not.

Greg,

sorry if I confused the issue here, simply was trying to point out how full of it Wes is.........

I don't for a moment think he saw Oswald doing what he says he did after the shots were fired

Understood, but I think he did a lot of switching of information.

He took a package, not Oswald.

Oswald took his lunch cradled between his legs in front seat. Cheese sanger and piece of fruit. He knows this from experience with Oswald - but that is the lunch he himself claimed to bring that day

He left through the dock entrance, not Oswald as he would much later claim. We can guess it was him who did it because of his name being missing on that list.

I think there are other examples that I'm not recalling right now.

I'll buy that. And I'm taking that to the bank. Because I think that's exactly whats going on.

And I think I know now what weasle Wes took with him to work that friday. It wasn't his lunch.....

Oswald took his lunch alright and Yeah there it sat on his lap on the front seat.

Wes took a punt, and lost....

Stan Dane at March 15, 2015 at 3:59 AM

Lee:

 

It's hard to say if there's a smudge that just happens to be on the 602 or if it's something else. The 2 does seem to line up consistent with the rest of the characters on that line, so I don't know. It's not like the raised/tilted 2 we saw on, IIRC, Tippit's death cert.

 

 

 

Question? When was Pay Day?

What day or days did TSBD employees get paid?
Was it 1st and 15th of the month?



$108 divided by 80 hours is $1.35 hour. So every two weeks?

OV Campbell said Oct 31 a Thursday and Nov 15 a Friday were LHO paydays. He was paid semi monthly in cash.
Lee had $43 unclaimed.
$43/$1.35Hr = 31.85 hours or 4 days work.
Looks like Lee got stiffed for Friday Nov 22....guess you can't depend on that roll call sheet or Wes as a witnesses for an employment compensation claim.

From memory, Marina got the pay owed Oswald for the morning of the 22nd. Seems they felt he worked that morning after all.

If you want to focus on what Wes (and Linnie May) concocted see his story in the interview with Gary Mack about his post shots actions until his time of arrest. I believe this is when the curtain rod story was created. Frazier manages to lose hours of time in his recollections. It has all the hallmarks of a fantasy.