REOPEN KENNEDY CASE

Ralph Westbrook at October 22, 2015 at 4:12 AM

Brian Castle at October 22, 2015 at 2:33 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 21, 2015 at 1:08 PM

I guess I am replying to two sets of questions with this post, structure is a little confusing.  I didn't see any way to reply directly to the question about corruption in the Dallas Police Department in the 60's.  I'll respond to that question first, then the second question lower in the blog.  First of all, I'll respond to the couple of comments about hoping I'm not offended by the questions.  I'm not offended by any questions and will reply respectfully as long as I'm given the same consideration.

Corruption in DPD during the 60's.  I was only 18 years old during the assasination, so really too young to have any real knowledge of corruption.  I don't know of  reason to think that the DPD didn't have corrupt police officers just like any metro area.  I do know that many businesses welcomed policemen and provided meals.  I had a very sheltered and idealic childhood and never saw or heard of any overt corruption.  Throwdowns and coverups probably occured from time to time.  Police were always very loyal to each other and had a strong fraternity.  I believe Tippit was just doing his job and was killed by LHO.  However, as members of this thread could point out, I have no more personal knowledge than any of you.  I don't mind anyone calling me to discuss any of this.  I won't list my phone number, but I still live in Dallas and number would probably be easy to find.  No, never heard the nickname Pinky attached to Ruby.

My father's service record prior to 1963 - I believe he joined the department about 1947, rose pretty quickly through the ranks, because he had a very strong work ethic.  Worked as patrolman for a few years, don't know of any service complaint and familiar with one comendation for apprehension of burglars.  Was a sargent than leutinant supervising street patrolman.  Was promoted to captain of personell division in late 50

Hi Ralph - I meant "service" as in military service. Your dad served in WW-2? He was in the Reserves after that?

Pre-1963, just trying to establish the history. I'm sifting through service records, I have one with a serial number ending in 696, starting on 30 Dec 1941. Is that right?

Yes, I tried to edit that in, but it doesn't show up.  He only spent a very short time in the milatary (less than six months) because of bleeding stomach ulcers.  I don't remember ever hearing about any reserve activities, of course I wasn't around at that time.  Dec, 1941 would have been about the right time.

Hi Ralph - thanks for that. Yikes! Why would someone with bleeding stomach ulcers want to go into the personnel business? lol

I'd like to ask if you remember someone named Boise Smith. Perhaps a family friend? He was one of your dad's counterparts at the DPD (also a Captain, reporting to the Chief), and also involved in "personnel" in a manner of speaking. For many reasons it would have been a natural for Smith and your dad to have been friends. Capt Smith was involved in civil defense, he was the DPD liaison to the city-county disaster planning board. Smith had a son named Boise Jr, who was associated with Lone Star Industries.

Time for a blonde question: is TSBD employee  Karen Westbrook related one way or another to your family?

Thanks.

Best,

B

And a red-haired question: how'd you get get into playing poker? - grin -

Brian Castle at October 23, 2015 at 3:21 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 22, 2015 at 4:12 AM

Brian Castle at October 22, 2015 at 2:33 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 21, 2015 at 1:08 PM

I guess I am replying to two sets of questions with this post, structure is a little confusing.  I didn't see any way to reply directly to the question about corruption in the Dallas Police Department in the 60's.  I'll respond to that question first, then the second question lower in the blog.  First of all, I'll respond to the couple of comments about hoping I'm not offended by the questions.  I'm not offended by any questions and will reply respectfully as long as I'm given the same consideration.

Corruption in DPD during the 60's.  I was only 18 years old during the assasination, so really too young to have any real knowledge of corruption.  I don't know of  reason to think that the DPD didn't have corrupt police officers just like any metro area.  I do know that many businesses welcomed policemen and provided meals.  I had a very sheltered and idealic childhood and never saw or heard of any overt corruption.  Throwdowns and coverups probably occured from time to time.  Police were always very loyal to each other and had a strong fraternity.  I believe Tippit was just doing his job and was killed by LHO.  However, as members of this thread could point out, I have no more personal knowledge than any of you.  I don't mind anyone calling me to discuss any of this.  I won't list my phone number, but I still live in Dallas and number would probably be easy to find.  No, never heard the nickname Pinky attached to Ruby.

My father's service record prior to 1963 - I believe he joined the department about 1947, rose pretty quickly through the ranks, because he had a very strong work ethic.  Worked as patrolman for a few years, don't know of any service complaint and familiar with one comendation for apprehension of burglars.  Was a sargent than leutinant supervising street patrolman.  Was promoted to captain of personell division in late 50

Hi Ralph - I meant "service" as in military service. Your dad served in WW-2? He was in the Reserves after that?

Pre-1963, just trying to establish the history. I'm sifting through service records, I have one with a serial number ending in 696, starting on 30 Dec 1941. Is that right?

Yes, I tried to edit that in, but it doesn't show up.  He only spent a very short time in the milatary (less than six months) because of bleeding stomach ulcers.  I don't remember ever hearing about any reserve activities, of course I wasn't around at that time.  Dec, 1941 would have been about the right time.

Hi Ralph - thanks for that. Yikes! Why would someone with bleeding stomach ulcers want to go into the personnel business? lol

I'd like to ask if you remember someone named Boise Smith. Perhaps a family friend? He was one of your dad's counterparts at the DPD (also a Captain, reporting to the Chief), and also involved in "personnel" in a manner of speaking. For many reasons it would have been a natural for Smith and your dad to have been friends. Capt Smith was involved in civil defense, he was the DPD liaison to the city-county disaster planning board. Smith had a son named Boise Jr, who was associated with Lone Star Industries.

Sorry, I don't remember anyone by the name Boise Smith.  I knew most of my father's police friends and don't remember a Boise.

Barto at October 23, 2015 at 4:18 PM

Time for a blonde question: is TSBD employee  Karen Westbrook related one way or another to your family?

Thanks.

Best,

B

No, don't remember a Karen Westbrook.

Brian Castle at October 23, 2015 at 11:50 PM

And a red-haired question: how'd you get get into playing poker? - grin -

Passed by a casino for several years before stopping in.  Put my money in a poker game and found that I really enjoyed it.

What is your bet on Prayer Man and what it means about the assassination?

Thanks again for all the replies! Cheers~Ed

Ralph Westbrook at October 29, 2015 at 12:03 PM

Brian Castle at October 23, 2015 at 3:21 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 22, 2015 at 4:12 AM

Brian Castle at October 22, 2015 at 2:33 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 21, 2015 at 1:08 PM

I guess I am replying to two sets of questions with this post, structure is a little confusing.  I didn't see any way to reply directly to the question about corruption in the Dallas Police Department in the 60's.  I'll respond to that question first, then the second question lower in the blog.  First of all, I'll respond to the couple of comments about hoping I'm not offended by the questions.  I'm not offended by any questions and will reply respectfully as long as I'm given the same consideration.

Corruption in DPD during the 60's.  I was only 18 years old during the assasination, so really too young to have any real knowledge of corruption.  I don't know of  reason to think that the DPD didn't have corrupt police officers just like any metro area.  I do know that many businesses welcomed policemen and provided meals.  I had a very sheltered and idealic childhood and never saw or heard of any overt corruption.  Throwdowns and coverups probably occured from time to time.  Police were always very loyal to each other and had a strong fraternity.  I believe Tippit was just doing his job and was killed by LHO.  However, as members of this thread could point out, I have no more personal knowledge than any of you.  I don't mind anyone calling me to discuss any of this.  I won't list my phone number, but I still live in Dallas and number would probably be easy to find.  No, never heard the nickname Pinky attached to Ruby.

My father's service record prior to 1963 - I believe he joined the department about 1947, rose pretty quickly through the ranks, because he had a very strong work ethic.  Worked as patrolman for a few years, don't know of any service complaint and familiar with one comendation for apprehension of burglars.  Was a sargent than leutinant supervising street patrolman.  Was promoted to captain of personell division in late 50

Hi Ralph - I meant "service" as in military service. Your dad served in WW-2? He was in the Reserves after that?

Pre-1963, just trying to establish the history. I'm sifting through service records, I have one with a serial number ending in 696, starting on 30 Dec 1941. Is that right?

Yes, I tried to edit that in, but it doesn't show up.  He only spent a very short time in the milatary (less than six months) because of bleeding stomach ulcers.  I don't remember ever hearing about any reserve activities, of course I wasn't around at that time.  Dec, 1941 would have been about the right time.

Hi Ralph - thanks for that. Yikes! Why would someone with bleeding stomach ulcers want to go into the personnel business? lol

I'd like to ask if you remember someone named Boise Smith. Perhaps a family friend? He was one of your dad's counterparts at the DPD (also a Captain, reporting to the Chief), and also involved in "personnel" in a manner of speaking. For many reasons it would have been a natural for Smith and your dad to have been friends. Capt Smith was involved in civil defense, he was the DPD liaison to the city-county disaster planning board. Smith had a son named Boise Jr, who was associated with Lone Star Industries.

Sorry, I don't remember anyone by the name Boise Smith.  I knew most of my father's police friends and don't remember a Boise.

Hi Ralph, I'm sure it would have been "Bo" in 1963 Texas. "Bo" Smith, maybe?

(sorry I can't figure out how to turn off these multi-quotes)...

I'm thinking your dad might have been responsible for saving Oswald's butt, I'm pretty sure he would have ended up dead (earlier) if it wasn't for actions taken by your dad at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

I don't know how much you know (or care) about the Kennedy case, but I'll just lay this out here as food for thought.

Jack Crichton and George Lumpkin are the ones responsible for bringing in Ilya Mamantov to translate for Marina Oswald at her first interrogation, and that was after Crichton had a discussion with HL Hunt. George Lumpkin was a member of the 488th, as was your dad - and in that capacity they both reported to Lt Col Crichton, who was the founder of the 488th and its only head from 1956 till 1967. Your dad's job as the head of personnel at DPD made him responsible for not only gathering background on all DPD applicants, but also for evaluating said background in terms of fitness to serve on the job - which includes abstract concepts like "reliability". ALL of the members of the 488th were involved in a national security mindset where "reliability" was defined at least in part by things like leftwards communist political leanings and so on. It was, by all accounts (that is to say, without exception), a very conservative mindset. The 488th was actively involved in the identification, monitoring, and tracking of "subversives" in the Dallas area, from at least 1959 to at least 1965, and in that capacity their daily operations overlapped extensively with those of the Dallas Police, and those of the Department of Public Safety.

I'm talking about the "sharing of information", not anything extreme like a conspiracy to kill someone. But I've come to think of it in these terms - the dropping of a wallet is the sharing of information. The speaking of someone's name is the sharing of information. When the names Oswald and Hidell were spoken, that was the sharing of information, nothing more. But that one single act, turned out to be enormously important. The sharing of information at the Tippit scene had a life-or-death impact on the events at the Texas Theater. If that had happened today, and they were chasing a cop killer and the suspect pulled a weapon, he would have had 40 holes in him long before he could say "this is it".

So, my reasoning goes kind of like this: the Mamantov incident is direct evidence of proactive control by the head of the 488th. If there was any control being directed through the 488th, it was concerted (no member of that unit acted alone). On the day of the assassination the role of the 488th was to supplement the security of the president (Lumpkin and Crichton's boss Whitmeyer were riding in the pilot car, which makes it somewhat bizarre that Crichton was off attending an Aggies luncheon at the Adolphus Hotel at the time). Your dad sat around the police station for 20 minutes before he decided to walk over to the TSBD, and I propose that he got a phone call "suggesting" that he do that. I also propose that someone "suggested" he ask Bob Barret about the ID in the wallet.  Perhaps the "someone" was the same person who was so concerned about the accuracy of Marina Oswald's translations. Perhaps that person was directing the entirety of the activities of the 488th on the day.

Your dad reported to Jack Crichton in his capacity as a member of the 488th Military Reserve, and his job with the Dallas police was only to ensure that candidates were properly vetted and that no one ended up penetrating the DPD. From the standpoint of the Dallas police, your dad was a "liaison" to military intelligence. (There were many such liaisons, but the personnel department was an important one). The flow of information was two way, the police and the army reserves assisted each other, and they depended on key people like your dad to keep that information flowing in a timely and seamless manner.

It is beyond interesting though, that military intelligence would participate in a DPD ground operation in real time. When your dad found that wallet, he took it with him. He didn't show it to anyone (at the Tippit scene) for another 20 minutes. I propose he spoke with someone from the 488th during those 20 minutes, and asked them what to do. They may have said, "you might mention it to Bob Barrett", or maybe they just said "ask the FBI", but next we have half a dozen cops who know Oswald's name and alias, and all of them are subsequently over at the Texas Theater. "Not" shooting the cop killer.''

Your dad reported to Jack Crichton in his capacity as a member of the 488th Military Reserve

I don't recall reading any document(s) which claims that Westbrook was a member of Crichton's 488th MID. Perhaps you could point it out to me?

Hasan Yusuf at November 24, 2015 at 8:51 AM

Your dad reported to Jack Crichton in his capacity as a member of the 488th Military Reserve

I don't recall reading any document(s) which claims that Westbrook was a member of Crichton's 488th MID. Perhaps you could point it out to me?

 

Bumped for Brian Castle (with the hope that he will be able to help me out).

Brian Castle at November 24, 2015 at 5:19 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 29, 2015 at 12:03 PM

Brian Castle at October 23, 2015 at 3:21 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 22, 2015 at 4:12 AM

Brian Castle at October 22, 2015 at 2:33 AM

Ralph Westbrook at October 21, 2015 at 1:08 PM

I guess I am replying to two sets of questions with this post, structure is a little confusing.  I didn't see any way to reply directly to the question about corruption in the Dallas Police Department in the 60's.  I'll respond to that question first, then the second question lower in the blog.  First of all, I'll respond to the couple of comments about hoping I'm not offended by the questions.  I'm not offended by any questions and will reply respectfully as long as I'm given the same consideration.

Corruption in DPD during the 60's.  I was only 18 years old during the assasination, so really too young to have any real knowledge of corruption.  I don't know of  reason to think that the DPD didn't have corrupt police officers just like any metro area.  I do know that many businesses welcomed policemen and provided meals.  I had a very sheltered and idealic childhood and never saw or heard of any overt corruption.  Throwdowns and coverups probably occured from time to time.  Police were always very loyal to each other and had a strong fraternity.  I believe Tippit was just doing his job and was killed by LHO.  However, as members of this thread could point out, I have no more personal knowledge than any of you.  I don't mind anyone calling me to discuss any of this.  I won't list my phone number, but I still live in Dallas and number would probably be easy to find.  No, never heard the nickname Pinky attached to Ruby.

My father's service record prior to 1963 - I believe he joined the department about 1947, rose pretty quickly through the ranks, because he had a very strong work ethic.  Worked as patrolman for a few years, don't know of any service complaint and familiar with one comendation for apprehension of burglars.  Was a sargent than leutinant supervising street patrolman.  Was promoted to captain of personell division in late 50

Hi Ralph - I meant "service" as in military service. Your dad served in WW-2? He was in the Reserves after that?

Pre-1963, just trying to establish the history. I'm sifting through service records, I have one with a serial number ending in 696, starting on 30 Dec 1941. Is that right?

Yes, I tried to edit that in, but it doesn't show up.  He only spent a very short time in the milatary (less than six months) because of bleeding stomach ulcers.  I don't remember ever hearing about any reserve activities, of course I wasn't around at that time.  Dec, 1941 would have been about the right time.

Hi Ralph - thanks for that. Yikes! Why would someone with bleeding stomach ulcers want to go into the personnel business? lol

I'd like to ask if you remember someone named Boise Smith. Perhaps a family friend? He was one of your dad's counterparts at the DPD (also a Captain, reporting to the Chief), and also involved in "personnel" in a manner of speaking. For many reasons it would have been a natural for Smith and your dad to have been friends. Capt Smith was involved in civil defense, he was the DPD liaison to the city-county disaster planning board. Smith had a son named Boise Jr, who was associated with Lone Star Industries.

Sorry, I don't remember anyone by the name Boise Smith.  I knew most of my father's police friends and don't remember a Boise.

Hi Ralph, I'm sure it would have been "Bo" in 1963 Texas. "Bo" Smith, maybe?

(sorry I can't figure out how to turn off these multi-quotes)...

I'm thinking your dad might have been responsible for saving Oswald's butt, I'm pretty sure he would have ended up dead (earlier) if it wasn't for actions taken by your dad at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

I don't know how much you know (or care) about the Kennedy case, but I'll just lay this out here as food for thought.

Jack Crichton and George Lumpkin are the ones responsible for bringing in Ilya Mamantov to translate for Marina Oswald at her first interrogation, and that was after Crichton had a discussion with HL Hunt. George Lumpkin was a member of the 488th, as was your dad - and in that capacity they both reported to Lt Col Crichton, who was the founder of the 488th and its only head from 1956 till 1967. Your dad's job as the head of personnel at DPD made him responsible for not only gathering background on all DPD applicants, but also for evaluating said background in terms of fitness to serve on the job - which includes abstract concepts like "reliability". ALL of the members of the 488th were involved in a national security mindset where "reliability" was defined at least in part by things like leftwards communist political leanings and so on. It was, by all accounts (that is to say, without exception), a very conservative mindset. The 488th was actively involved in the identification, monitoring, and tracking of "subversives" in the Dallas area, from at least 1959 to at least 1965, and in that capacity their daily operations overlapped extensively with those of the Dallas Police, and those of the Department of Public Safety.

I'm talking about the "sharing of information", not anything extreme like a conspiracy to kill someone. But I've come to think of it in these terms - the dropping of a wallet is the sharing of information. The speaking of someone's name is the sharing of information. When the names Oswald and Hidell were spoken, that was the sharing of information, nothing more. But that one single act, turned out to be enormously important. The sharing of information at the Tippit scene had a life-or-death impact on the events at the Texas Theater. If that had happened today, and they were chasing a cop killer and the suspect pulled a weapon, he would have had 40 holes in him long before he could say "this is it".

So, my reasoning goes kind of like this: the Mamantov incident is direct evidence of proactive control by the head of the 488th. If there was any control being directed through the 488th, it was concerted (no member of that unit acted alone). On the day of the assassination the role of the 488th was to supplement the security of the president (Lumpkin and Crichton's boss Whitmeyer were riding in the pilot car, which makes it somewhat bizarre that Crichton was off attending an Aggies luncheon at the Adolphus Hotel at the time). Your dad sat around the police station for 20 minutes before he decided to walk over to the TSBD, and I propose that he got a phone call "suggesting" that he do that. I also propose that someone "suggested" he ask Bob Barret about the ID in the wallet.  Perhaps the "someone" was the same person who was so concerned about the accuracy of Marina Oswald's translations. Perhaps that person was directing the entirety of the activities of the 488th on the day.

Your dad reported to Jack Crichton in his capacity as a member of the 488th Military Reserve, and his job with the Dallas police was only to ensure that candidates were properly vetted and that no one ended up penetrating the DPD. From the standpoint of the Dallas police, your dad was a "liaison" to military intelligence. (There were many such liaisons, but the personnel department was an important one). The flow of information was two way, the police and the army reserves assisted each other, and they depended on key people like your dad to keep that information flowing in a timely and seamless manner.

It is beyond interesting though, that military intelligence would participate in a DPD ground operation in real time. When your dad found that wallet, he took it with him. He didn't show it to anyone (at the Tippit scene) for another 20 minutes. I propose he spoke with someone from the 488th during those 20 minutes, and asked them what to do. They may have said, "you might mention it to Bob Barrett", or maybe they just said "ask the FBI", but next we have half a dozen cops who know Oswald's name and alias, and all of them are subsequently over at the Texas Theater. "Not" shooting the cop killer.''

Sorry, I have no memory of 488th or any reserve activities.  I was away at college, doing what 18 year-old college students do.  At the time, I didn't think of this as the incredibly historical event it has become, at least in connection with my father.  I was spending my time with sports, girls, and studies (well maybe not so much with studies).  It probably doesn't make any sense to you that I didn't want to know everything there was to know from my father.  In hindsight, it makes no sense to me either.  Wish I had asked everything I could think of to ask.  As I mentioned before, my father was a very unassuming person and didn't talk about the interesting aspects of his job unless someone asked.  Wish I had the answers to the questions you are asking about the billfold, the jacket and gun.

Someone asked if I remembered Boyce (or Bo) Smith.  I knew many of my father's friends, but not Boyce or Bo.

No worries Ralph,
We all wish more questons had been asked, but the press and federal government covered up the case so many questions would be years in the asking.
Knowing that you want answers is the way we feel about many of the persons involved in the handling of evidence and intelligence on Oswald.
Glad to have you posting!

It has been three months since I asked Brian Castle (politely) to point out any documents showing that Captain Westbrook was a member of Jack Crichton's 488th Military Intelligence detachment. He has yet to reply. Where are the documents, Brian?????

So Brian, when exactly are you going to get around to pointing out the so-called evidence that Westbrook was a member of Crichton's 488th MID? You don't want people to think that you're an utter bullshit talker, do you Mr n00b?

Lemme bump this for Brian!

http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads/40077-here-are-the-people-who-killed-Kennedy

Vinny at June 17, 2016 at 9:54 AM

http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads/40077-here-are-the-people-who-killed-Kennedy

I don't see any links to the n00b's claims in that thread to back up what he's saying. It looks like all we have to go on is his say so that Westbrook was a member of the 488th MID. Not good enough!